4643 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The lore also very specifically states that one of the MOs for an Abomination, is to create more of its kind. Bringing another mage to it, would be like feeding it and asking it to stick around.

If the abomination in question is one of the more powerful of the hierarchy, this is true.

About the Keeper being possessed. Well yes in such an extreme a rage/hunger demon would be able to possess him. But the entire idea of the mages in DA, is that they have extreme mental barriers up at ALL times. That means they must be trained to keep them up even during great duress. So if the Keeper failed at this point, he would have been a weak one, and not really match the description of Keepers we otherwise get.
Genrally speaking, for a rage/hunger demon to possess a mage, the mage is either weak and inexperienced, or the rage/hunger demon is exceptionally powerful.

Or may have been distracted by the fighting of that hypothetical scenario, and otherwise wouldn't have been possessed if he hadn't been fighting.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Mages are trained for these scenarios. If he is distracted that easily, then obviously he wasn't a very good mage to begin with, and then it is no wonder a simple rage/hunger demon could overtake him.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Mages are trained for these scenarios. If he is distracted that easily, then obviously he wasn't a very good mage to begin with, and then it is no wonder a simple rage/hunger demon could overtake him.

Not completely true. The Chantry goes out of its way in many instances to keep Mages from using their power, and certainly tries to keep them out of any conflict...unless the Chantry is politically/religiously invested in that particular conflict.

Examples: Beating back the Qunari, all of Thedas needed absolutely every advantage they could get, and if they failed then there wouldn't be a Chantry, so mages were called in as the answer to counter the Qunari's technology.

The Ferelden/Orlesian War. The Chantry was politically involved with supporting Orlais, and allowed the Orlesians as many mages as they wanted, while doing their absolute best to keep the Fereldens from having any, and only started changing their tune when Ferelden started winning and the chantry had to go into damage-control mode because they were only a hair away from getting kicked out of Ferelden entirely.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Doesn't really change the fact that mages train their entire lives, to be able to handle stressful situations and enviroments.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Merrill points out that the clan kills a mage who becomes an abomination; they aren't as virtually unstoppable as you make it out to be.

At what cost? It their duty to kill the Keeper-Abomination, yes.
Does that mean they always suceed? Nope.
Entire clans can be lost to a powerfull abomination.

Gameplay does a ******-poor job of brining across the power of your enemies, because its' a game and the PC *MUST* win in the end. It doesn't matter whom or what you're fighting.

Go ahead, take on an armored elephant with just a sword. Now make that elephant bigger, give it the abiltiy to breathe fire and fly. Now let's see you kill it in a straight-up fight.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Star fury wrote...
That's a gross exaggeration. We don't know for sure that it takes 1, 10 or 100 soldiers/templars to kill 1 abomination. 

Yes we do.
An entire SQUAD of veretan soldiers can be wiped out easily by it. Truly powerfull ones can threaten kingdoms.
Read the bloody Codex.

[Medhia Nox]

@Emperor Sahlertz: Have you met the Thedas mages? They're pretty incompetent.

They're just mutants "gifted" with a power - but without the responsibility to realize that blowing crap up whenever they want isn't a "human right".

I've proposed plenty that while I support mage freedom (not this rebellion) - mages should be denied education in violent spells (unless part of military organizations) - and people freak out. It's hilarious. "Why shouldn't I be able to incinerate an entire village with fire! OPPRESSION!"

I wouldn't just have a single Harrowing - I'd have a Harrowing required at every rank of the mage political ladder - a Harrowing when you even begin to learn violent spells - and then a Harrow every few years.

Mages whining about the test - should stay home and learn how to clean the dust off shelves - because there's little difference between testing yourself before a demon in the Fade - and fighting darkspawn, or a million demons in the games, or anything else.

And they should learn nothing prior to their first Harrowing except mental fortitude and theory (which they can have Dagna teach them since there are precious few mages who know anything about magical theory - like... Avernus and Zathrian and they're both twirly mustache psychos)

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Doesn't really change the fact that mages train their entire lives, to be able to handle stressful situations and enviroments.

I guess that depends on the mage in question, and the school of magic they wish to study.

Finn most certainly didn't seem the type to prepare for stressful environments...or at least physically arduous ones.

[Star fury]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Star fury wrote...
That's a gross exaggeration. We don't know for sure that it takes 1, 10 or 100 soldiers/templars to kill 1 abomination. 

Yes we do.
An entire SQUAD of veretan soldiers can be wiped out easily by it. Truly powerfull ones can threaten kingdoms.
Read the bloody Codex.

How many "veretan soldiers" can be wiped out easily by it?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Truly powerfull ones can threaten kingdoms.
Read the bloody Codex.

Source?

[EmperorSahlertz]

The codex says, that if a Greater Pride Demon were ever to cross the Veil, then the entire world would be in peril.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The codex says, that if a Greater Pride Demon were ever to cross the Veil, then the entire world would be in peril.

So like an archdemon, then?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The codex says, that if a Greater Pride Demon were ever to cross the Veil, then the entire world would be in peril.

So like an archdemon, then?

I guess. I doubt a Greater Pride Demon would be summoning Darkspawn though.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The codex says, that if a Greater Pride Demon were ever to cross the Veil, then the entire world would be in peril.

So like an archdemon, then?

I guess. I doubt a Greater Pride Demon would be summoning Darkspawn though.

Probably it'd be summoning a bunch more demons. Thankfully, demons seem to be less coordinated than Blights.

[Hazegurl]

Ausstig wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

RaenImrahl wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Guess Xil is trying to get this Templar thread locked

If Xil doesn't, then I bet all the animated image spam will.

Any time Xil ****posts a thread the admins choose to threaten other users instead.

Just wonderful.

Sigh I created this thread after the LAST one got locked by certain people,

I just intended for Templar supporters to gather and talk about the Templars as well as maybe how to get people to support them. 

It was not created for people to BASH TEMPLARS OR TEMPLAR SUPPORTERS!

In fact that is the EXCAT OPPOSITE of what this thread is and people who do that here ARE TROLLS and the mods should treat them as such.

If you don't like the Templars then kindly f*** off and go start your own thread. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE

If you want to start a "Mage Support thread" or a another "Mages v Templars" thread, GO FOR IT 

They tried creating their own mage thread only to realize how completely boring  they are.

It's better to just focus on the people you want to talk to and leave the trolls alone. They'll leave when not engaged.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 24 octobre 2013 - 02:44 .

[dragonflight288]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd argue an army of demons is worse than an army of darkspawn. Smarter and more powerful individually.

They don't corrupt everything by their mere presence, darkspawn do.

They don't have the capacity to take a single woman and create a small army of monsters in the thousands. Darkspawn do. (More powerful demons could summon more demons, but that'll likely be in the dozens to the hundreds, not the vast army that Darkspawn can create.)

They don't mindlessly ravage and destroy everything they come in contact with....well maybe hunger demons do, and demons don't have the numbers to do the damage that darkspawn can. 

Mmm...until Inquisition comes out, it's actually hard to say if the demons will or will not have the numbers thanks to the big hole in the sky, so part of my argument is actually redundant without more information. Drat. 

[Hazegurl]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I wouldn't just have a single Harrowing - I'd have a Harrowing required at every rank of the mage political ladder - a Harrowing when you even begin to learn violent spells - and then a Harrow every few years. 

I agree, it's obvious that mages needed more than one Harrowing in their lifetime. Why the Chantry thought that one was enough is beyond me considering how many seem to succumb to their power.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Merrill points out that the clan kills a mage who becomes an abomination; they aren't as virtually unstoppable as you make it out to be.

At what cost? It their duty to kill the Keeper-Abomination, yes.
Does that mean they always suceed? Nope.
Entire clans can be lost to a powerfull abomination.

Gameplay does a ******-poor job of brining across the power of your enemies, because its' a game and the PC *MUST* win in the end. It doesn't matter whom or what you're fighting.

Go ahead, take on an armored elephant with just a sword. Now make that elephant bigger, give it the abiltiy to breathe fire and fly. Now let's see you kill it in a straight-up fight.

Their is a big difference between an abomnation that that rampages between unarmded and untrained peasants or an abomination that rampages between a warrior society like the dalish  . It seems that the dalish do not consider the abominations much a of a  danger. Also lore contradicts the power of abominations merediths own sister only managed to kill a few dozen peasants (something a medieval knight can easily replicate) beforea few trained templars cut them down.

[Reaverwind]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Merrill points out that the clan kills a mage who becomes an abomination; they aren't as virtually unstoppable as you make it out to be.

At what cost? It their duty to kill the Keeper-Abomination, yes.
Does that mean they always suceed? Nope.
Entire clans can be lost to a powerfull abomination.

Gameplay does a ******-poor job of brining across the power of your enemies, because its' a game and the PC *MUST* win in the end. It doesn't matter whom or what you're fighting.

Go ahead, take on an armored elephant with just a sword. Now make that elephant bigger, give it the abiltiy to breathe fire and fly. Now let's see you kill it in a straight-up fight.

Their is a big difference between an abomnation that that rampages between unarmded and untrained peasants or an abomination that rampages between a warrior society like the dalish  . It seems that the dalish do not consider the abominations much a of a  danger. Also lore contradicts the power of abominations merediths own sister only managed to kill a few dozen peasants (something a medieval knight can easily replicate) beforea few trained templars cut them down.

That's one hell of a spin to put on the story. Her sister-turned-Abomination wiped out most of her family AND 70 people before the Templars were able to stop it. There is no mention of how many Templars it took.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd argue an army of demons is worse than an army of darkspawn. Smarter and more powerful individually.

They don't corrupt everything by their mere presence, darkspawn do.

They don't have the capacity to take a single woman and create a small army of monsters in the thousands. Darkspawn do. (More powerful demons could summon more demons, but that'll likely be in the dozens to the hundreds, not the vast army that Darkspawn can create.)

They don't mindlessly ravage and destroy everything they come in contact with....well maybe hunger demons do, and demons don't have the numbers to do the damage that darkspawn can. 

Mmm...until Inquisition comes out, it's actually hard to say if the demons will or will not have the numbers thanks to the big hole in the sky, so part of my argument is actually redundant without more information. Drat. 

If a Greater Pride Demon would indeed threaten the entire world, then it would by that very measure be a threat just as great as the Darkspawn. Perhaps the threat posed is wholely by itself, in which case it would be almsot unimaginably powerful. Perhaps the threat emanates from the amount fo other demosn it would summon, who would in turn summon more demons.
Also remember that Pride Demons aren't even the most powerful demons out there...

[DKJaigen]

Star fury wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Star fury wrote...
That's a gross exaggeration. We don't know for sure that it takes 1, 10 or 100 soldiers/templars to kill 1 abomination. 

Yes we do.
An entire SQUAD of veretan soldiers can be wiped out easily by it. Truly powerfull ones can threaten kingdoms.
Read the bloody Codex.

How many "veretan soldiers" can be wiped out easily by it?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Truly powerfull ones can threaten kingdoms.
Read the bloody Codex.

Source?

It does says so in the codex but that piece of information is written by the chantry so everything it says needs to eb taken with a grain of salt. Lotion always keeps on blabbering how dangerous abominations are but so far their is not a single shred of evidence besides redcliff (which where caused by extra ordinary causes) that abominations can destroy cities.  

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Merrill points out that the clan kills a mage who becomes an abomination; they aren't as virtually unstoppable as you make it out to be.

At what cost? It their duty to kill the Keeper-Abomination, yes.
Does that mean they always suceed? Nope.
Entire clans can be lost to a powerfull abomination.

Gameplay does a ******-poor job of brining across the power of your enemies, because its' a game and the PC *MUST* win in the end. It doesn't matter whom or what you're fighting.

Go ahead, take on an armored elephant with just a sword. Now make that elephant bigger, give it the abiltiy to breathe fire and fly. Now let's see you kill it in a straight-up fight.

Their is a big difference between an abomnation that that rampages between unarmded and untrained peasants or an abomination that rampages between a warrior society like the dalish  . It seems that the dalish do not consider the abominations much a of a  danger. Also lore contradicts the power of abominations merediths own sister only managed to kill a few dozen peasants (something a medieval knight can easily replicate) beforea few trained templars cut them down.

A single medieval Knight would be overrun by 70 peasants. It wouldn't even be a contest.

DKJaigen wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Star fury wrote...
That's a gross exaggeration. We don't know for sure that it takes 1, 10 or 100 soldiers/templars to kill 1 abomination.  

Yes we do. 
An entire SQUAD of veretan soldiers can be wiped out easily by it. Truly powerfull ones can threaten kingdoms.
Read the bloody Codex.

How many "veretan soldiers" can be wiped out easily by it? 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Truly powerfull ones can threaten kingdoms.
Read the bloody Codex.

Source?

It does says so in the codex but that piece of information is written by the chantry so everything it says needs to eb taken with a grain of salt. Lotion always keeps on blabbering how dangerous abominations are but so far their is not a single shred of evidence besides redcliff (which where caused by extra ordinary causes) that abominations can destroy cities.   

It is a book written by Templars for Templars, regarding the threats they pose while doing their duty....... It wouldn't be prudent to exagerate the threat of an Abomination in such a manual.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:09 .

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd argue an army of demons is worse than an army of darkspawn. Smarter and more powerful individually.

They don't corrupt everything by their mere presence, darkspawn do.

They don't have the capacity to take a single woman and create a small army of monsters in the thousands. Darkspawn do. (More powerful demons could summon more demons, but that'll likely be in the dozens to the hundreds, not the vast army that Darkspawn can create.)

They don't mindlessly ravage and destroy everything they come in contact with....well maybe hunger demons do, and demons don't have the numbers to do the damage that darkspawn can. 

Mmm...until Inquisition comes out, it's actually hard to say if the demons will or will not have the numbers thanks to the big hole in the sky, so part of my argument is actually redundant without more information. Drat. 

If a Greater Pride Demon would indeed threaten the entire world, then it would by that very measure be a threat just as great as the Darkspawn. Perhaps the threat posed is wholely by itself, in which case it would be almsot unimaginably powerful. Perhaps the threat emanates from the amount fo other demosn it would summon, who would in turn summon more demons.
Also remember that Pride Demons aren't even the most powerful demons out there...

True, but the abomination codex also makes it clear that abominations themselves are also quite rare.

[DKJaigen]

Reaverwind wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Merrill points out that the clan kills a mage who becomes an abomination; they aren't as virtually unstoppable as you make it out to be.

At what cost? It their duty to kill the Keeper-Abomination, yes.
Does that mean they always suceed? Nope.
Entire clans can be lost to a powerfull abomination.

Gameplay does a ******-poor job of brining across the power of your enemies, because its' a game and the PC *MUST* win in the end. It doesn't matter whom or what you're fighting.

Go ahead, take on an armored elephant with just a sword. Now make that elephant bigger, give it the abiltiy to breathe fire and fly. Now let's see you kill it in a straight-up fight.

Their is a big difference between an abomnation that that rampages between unarmded and untrained peasants or an abomination that rampages between a warrior society like the dalish  . It seems that the dalish do not consider the abominations much a of a  danger. Also lore contradicts the power of abominations merediths own sister only managed to kill a few dozen peasants (something a medieval knight can easily replicate) beforea few trained templars cut them down.

That's one hell of a spin to put on the story. Her sister-turned-Abomination wiped out most of her family AND 70 people before the Templars were able to stop it. There is no mention of how many Templars it took.

70 people is nothing considering it killed people without training or equipment. during the hundred year war 47 british knights and men at arms managed to sack over 50 villages killing several thousand perhaps even ten thousand peasants in a timeframe of 4 months . that abomination isnt impressing me.

A single medieval Knight would be overrun by 70 peasants. It wouldn't even be a contest.

If the knight is on foot and in the open perhaps. on horseback peasants really dont have a chance. how do you think the medieval nobility kept their people in line despite that the peasants consisted of nearly 95% of the people?

If a Greater Pride
Demon would indeed threaten the entire world, then it would by that very
measure be a threat just as great as the Darkspawn. Perhaps the threat
posed is wholely by itself, in which case it would be almsot
unimaginably powerful. Perhaps the threat emanates from the amount fo
other demosn it would summon, who would in turn summon more demons.
Also remember that Pride Demons aren't even the most powerful demons out there...

then the templars are ****ing idiots for putting the mages in one spot.

It is a book written by Templars for Templars, regarding the threats
they pose while doing their duty....... It wouldn't be prudent to
exagerate the threat of an Abomination in such a manual.

Templars for the most part are ignorant idiots with no real understanding of magic. also when was the last time a greater pride demon has shown up? how CAN the templars know its power? I how can the templars even fight the damn thing if they failed so epicly at the fereldan tower?

Modifié par DKJaigen, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:24 .

[Lord Raijin]

Hazegurl wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

I wouldn't just have a single Harrowing - I'd have a Harrowing required at every rank of the mage political ladder - a Harrowing when you even begin to learn violent spells - and then a Harrow every few years. 

I agree, it's obvious that mages needed more than one Harrowing in their lifetime. Why the Chantry thought that one was enough is beyond me considering how many seem to succumb to their power.

What about the Templars who are stationed in the Circle? Do you think they should have to undergo simular training like the Harrowing? The fact that so many of them back in Circle Tower in Feralden were under the influence of demons and have thus lost their own will only proves that they should focus the quality on their own training rather than shove mages into a situation to see if they can resist demonic possession every so often.

If you're going to be dealing strictly with mages then you should be given rigorous and agressive form of test to see if you can resist the influence of demons, and so many of them had failed this at a great lost.

If you're going to treat the Circle as a prison (as it was prior to Kirkwall) and the mages are prisoners then you must be prepaired for the worst.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:22 .