Are you under the impression that I was born in the fictional world of Thedas and grew up listening to the sermons of the Chantry?Lord Raijin wrote...
Thats nothing more than Chantry propaganda.
I said in the Dragon Age GAMES, and was careful to phrase it that way. And in the rest of Dragon Age lore, the Architect's original plan, which he seems to have abandoned by the time of Awakening, is the only thhing worse than the Tranquil Solution. And that's really only in scale of people it effects. In essense the two plans are the same thing: change people into something else to ensure peace. And in a practical perspective, it is a sound move to slice the tendons in everybody's wrists so that they can't weild weapons to kill people, yet we don't do that.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Congratulations Warden Z, you are the first person I've ever seen, even among Pro-Templars, who approved of Alrik's Tranquil Solution. I honestly thought I'd never see the day when the most abhorrent plan shown in the Dragon Age games to date would see support. And I'm not even a Pro-Mage person.
Is it really?
There were some pretty dark plans from Bioware in the past.
What about the Architect turning everyone into darkspawn?
Let's face it, the tranquil solution, from a practical perspective, is a sound move.
And calling tranqulity inhumane? Death is final. There is no reversal. Tranqulity is not. And the person still lives and is usefull to society. And it's also content.
You would say that it's not the same person anymore?
Well, death also changes someone in a very permanent way.
And creating a new templar order separate from the Chantry?
From a practical perspective that is the exact opposite. Not to mention it rests on a incorrect assumption that removing hte Chatnry will somehow make everything better.
Well since we're going this route, how many nonmage people have killed other people in the past ten years? I seem to remember fighting a lot more people holding swords and bows rather than staves. And yet I'm not hearing any suggestions to lock up anyone who can weild a weapon away.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Worked? hah maybe they worked but awfully how many we had RoA in 900 years?How many apostates ,blood mages and abomnation we seen during just 10 years ,pretty much army of them.How many peoples killed by mages we have well even more... Pretty much you could try imprison hulk in normal prison smiliar effect.
MisterJB wrote...
I wonder how long it would take for the Tevinters to implement Alrik's idea if they knew how the Rite works.
Two, three days? The only slaves that would escape are those the Magisters take pleasure in tormenting.
MisterJB wrote...
Are you under the impression that I was born in the fictional world of Thedas and grew up listening to the sermons of the Chantry?Lord Raijin wrote...
Thats nothing more than Chantry propaganda.
I've reached the conclusion normals and mages can never coexist in equality on my own, thank you very much.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Congratulations Warden Z, you are the first person I've ever seen, even among Pro-Templars, who approved of Alrik's Tranquil Solution. I honestly thought I'd never see the day when the most abhorrent plan shown in the Dragon Age games to date would see support. And I'm not even a Pro-Mage person.
Is it really?
There were some pretty dark plans from Bioware in the past.
What about the Architect turning everyone into darkspawn?
Let's face it, the tranquil solution, from a practical perspective, is a sound move.
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Well since we're going this route, how many nonmage people have killed other people in the past ten years? I seem to remember fighting a lot more people holding swords and bows rather than staves. And yet I'm not hearing any suggestions to lock up anyone who can weild a weapon away.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Worked? hah maybe they worked but awfully how many we had RoA in 900 years?How many apostates ,blood mages and abomnation we seen during just 10 years ,pretty much army of them.How many peoples killed by mages we have well even more... Pretty much you could try imprison hulk in normal prison smiliar effect.
Medhia Nox wrote...
@Lotion Soronnar: It isn't practical at all really.
Look
at what things like Alrik's fear mongering and fascism have spawned?
The mage rebellion that Thedas is embroiled in is, ultimately the fault
of radical mages too short sighted to see how flawed their rebellion is,
but let's not pretend for one second that this rebellion was
unprovoked.
And, from this - we get the Veil Tears.
Meredith
should not only have refused Alrik - but should have dragged him into
the square and publicly hung him for even suggesting to undermind the
nations of Thedas. His "solution" was seditious and if I were Meredith I
would have proclaimed him to be in collusion with the Qunari - or the
Imperium.
Removing the mages from the nations under the White Divine is amongst the LEAST practical solution.
There is no difference. Sword or spell, it's all the same. Just a weapon to use for the weilder's ambitions. The only "unnatural" part are demons, and they can possess nonmages just as much as mages. It only seems to affect mages more because due to being oppressed, the mages tend to turn to them more to get an advantage over those hunting them. If the roles were reversed, nonmages would do the same thing to gain an edge over mages.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Well since we're going this route, how many nonmage people have killed other people in the past ten years? I seem to remember fighting a lot more people holding swords and bows rather than staves. And yet I'm not hearing any suggestions to lock up anyone who can weild a weapon away.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Worked? hah maybe they worked but awfully how many we had RoA in 900 years?How many apostates ,blood mages and abomnation we seen during just 10 years ,pretty much army of them.How many peoples killed by mages we have well even more... Pretty much you could try imprison hulk in normal prison smiliar effect.
And yet how many omnicidal maniacs non-mages you saw in dragon age when hurting peoples is part of human nature destruction everything on their part like mages (abomnations) isn't part of human nautre.Pretty much mages are unstable bombs that can spawn in any moment world destroyer. So at worst non-mage will become tyrant (and only few menage reach that) mage at worst can become world destroyer and every mage can become it.
Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 22 décembre 2013 - 06:55 .
I am not too sure if Alrik undermined the nations of Thedas, as much as he undermined Meredith's authority, particularly when she had already vetoed and vehemently denied his plan.Medhia Nox wrote...
And, from this - we get the Veil Tears.
Meredith should not only have refused Alrik - but should have dragged him into the square and publicly hung him for even suggesting to undermind the nations of Thedas. His "solution" was seditious and if I were Meredith I would have proclaimed him to be in collusion with the Qunari - or the Imperium.
Removing the mages from the nations under the White Divine is amongst the LEAST practical solution.
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
It only seems to affect mages more because due to being oppressed, the mages tend to turn to them more to get an advantage over those hunting them.
Modifié par Veruin, 22 décembre 2013 - 07:03 .
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
There is no difference. Sword or spell, it's all the same. Just a weapon to use for the weilder's ambitions. The only "unnatural" part are demons, and they can possess nonmages just as much as mages. It only seems to affect mages more because due to being oppressed, the mages tend to turn to them more to get an advantage over those hunting them. If the roles were reversed, nonmages would do the same thing to gain an edge over mages.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Well since we're going this route, how many nonmage people have killed other people in the past ten years? I seem to remember fighting a lot more people holding swords and bows rather than staves. And yet I'm not hearing any suggestions to lock up anyone who can weild a weapon away.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Worked? hah maybe they worked but awfully how many we had RoA in 900 years?How many apostates ,blood mages and abomnation we seen during just 10 years ,pretty much army of them.How many peoples killed by mages we have well even more... Pretty much you could try imprison hulk in normal prison smiliar effect.
And yet how many omnicidal maniacs non-mages you saw in dragon age when hurting peoples is part of human nature destruction everything on their part like mages (abomnations) isn't part of human nautre.Pretty much mages are unstable bombs that can spawn in any moment world destroyer. So at worst non-mage will become tyrant (and only few menage reach that) mage at worst can become world destroyer and every mage can become it.
No, a possessed nonmage can bring the end of the world as much as a possessed mage can. At that point, the body is just a shell for the demon to occupy so it has the same powers regardless of the person it possessed. Mages in fact need more than nonmages do to reach the same place since the stigma of being a mage will harm their pursuits while a nonmage is just ignored in the same situation. And yes a nonmage can destroy the world as easily as a mage can. Loghain nearly destroyed Ferelden because he was "having a bad day" with Cailan and the Wardens simply because they wanted Orlesian aid. I'm not Pro-Mage, but this brush stroke of "mages are the Antichrist" is just rediculous. There are good and bad mages just like there are good and bad nonmages. Mages have saved as many people as harmed them.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
There is no difference. Sword or spell, it's all the same. Just a weapon to use for the weilder's ambitions. The only "unnatural" part are demons, and they can possess nonmages just as much as mages. It only seems to affect mages more because due to being oppressed, the mages tend to turn to them more to get an advantage over those hunting them. If the roles were reversed, nonmages would do the same thing to gain an edge over mages.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Well since we're going this route, how many nonmage people have killed other people in the past ten years? I seem to remember fighting a lot more people holding swords and bows rather than staves. And yet I'm not hearing any suggestions to lock up anyone who can weild a weapon away.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Worked? hah maybe they worked but awfully how many we had RoA in 900 years?How many apostates ,blood mages and abomnation we seen during just 10 years ,pretty much army of them.How many peoples killed by mages we have well even more... Pretty much you could try imprison hulk in normal prison smiliar effect.
And yet how many omnicidal maniacs non-mages you saw in dragon age when hurting peoples is part of human nature destruction everything on their part like mages (abomnations) isn't part of human nautre.Pretty much mages are unstable bombs that can spawn in any moment world destroyer. So at worst non-mage will become tyrant (and only few menage reach that) mage at worst can become world destroyer and every mage can become it.
Well it is difference non-mage at worst is evil overlord who can be overthrown , mage at worst creature that cause end of the world so non-mage need army , charisma and many other factors to cause damage at their worst when all it causes in mage to reach their worst is distraction.And well there will be always excuse to end possessed so well you can throw as much do you want i don't care... the difference is that non-mages can't destroy world just because they have bad day...
The counter side to that is that due to being aware, the mage can also fight the demons back while those in the dream realm really can't.Veruin wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
It only seems to affect mages more because due to being oppressed, the mages tend to turn to them more to get an advantage over those hunting them.
It only affects mages more because they visit the fade aware, every night they sleep. Their power attracts demons. "Oppression" may play a part, but it is in no way the major factor.
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
The counter side to that is that due to being aware, the mage can also fight the demons back while those in the dream realm really can't.
By watching the dreams of sleeping mortals, I do believe that demons can gain some sense of how the world does work. At least the traditional upper tier pride and desire demons can have some measure of understanding in regards to such workings.Veruin wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
The counter side to that is that due to being aware, the mage can also fight the demons back while those in the dream realm really can't.
The demons have no interest in the normal people. I assume it works like those tranquil, they are invisible to the demons. Even if they weren't, what incentive does a demon have for a non mage? They know nothing of our world, so how would they know how politics work? How would they even know if said person has a position of power and is not simply a farmer?
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
No, a possessed nonmage can bring the end of the world as much as a possessed mage can. At that point, the body is just a shell for the demon to occupy so it has the same powers regardless of the person it possessed. Mages in fact need more than nonmages do to reach the same place since the stigma of being a mage will harm their pursuits while a nonmage is just ignored in the same situation. And yes a nonmage can destroy the world as easily as a mage can. Loghain nearly destroyed Ferelden because he was "having a bad day" with Cailan and the Wardens simply because they wanted Orlesian aid. I'm not Pro-Mage, but this brush stroke of "mages are the Antichrist" is just rediculous. There are good and bad mages just like there are good and bad nonmages. Mages have saved as many people as harmed them.
I said Loghain nearly destroyed Ferelden, not actually destroyed it.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
No, a possessed nonmage can bring the end of the world as much as a possessed mage can. At that point, the body is just a shell for the demon to occupy so it has the same powers regardless of the person it possessed. Mages in fact need more than nonmages do to reach the same place since the stigma of being a mage will harm their pursuits while a nonmage is just ignored in the same situation. And yes a nonmage can destroy the world as easily as a mage can. Loghain nearly destroyed Ferelden because he was "having a bad day" with Cailan and the Wardens simply because they wanted Orlesian aid. I'm not Pro-Mage, but this brush stroke of "mages are the Antichrist" is just rediculous. There are good and bad mages just like there are good and bad nonmages. Mages have saved as many people as harmed them.
And yet possesed non-mage is rare as hell even with mages and most of demons in (99% ) are in thedas only because of mages only other way to demon enter thedas is open veil and that can be done only by huge massacre and even qunari wars didn't menage do that.There a few reason why demons want mage.Loghain didn't destroy ferelden weakened ferelden but real problem was blight (which was created by mages hah hosted by own petard:devil:) .And no mages didn't saved as many peoples as harmed now count victims of blights , blood mages , abomnations , zathrian curse and other disasters caused by mages...
Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 22 décembre 2013 - 07:27 .
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
I said Loghain nearly destroyed Ferelden, not actually destroyed it.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
No, a possessed nonmage can bring the end of the world as much as a possessed mage can. At that point, the body is just a shell for the demon to occupy so it has the same powers regardless of the person it possessed. Mages in fact need more than nonmages do to reach the same place since the stigma of being a mage will harm their pursuits while a nonmage is just ignored in the same situation. And yes a nonmage can destroy the world as easily as a mage can. Loghain nearly destroyed Ferelden because he was "having a bad day" with Cailan and the Wardens simply because they wanted Orlesian aid. I'm not Pro-Mage, but this brush stroke of "mages are the Antichrist" is just rediculous. There are good and bad mages just like there are good and bad nonmages. Mages have saved as many people as harmed them.
And yet possesed non-mage is rare as hell even with mages and most of demons in (99% ) are in thedas only because of mages only other way to demon enter thedas is open veil and that can be done only by huge massacre and even qunari wars didn't menage do that.There a few reason why demons want mage.Loghain didn't destroy ferelden weakened ferelden but real problem was blight (which was created by mages hah hosted by own petard:devil:) .And no mages didn't saved as many peoples as harmed now count victims of blights , blood mages , abomnations , zathrian curse and other disasters caused by mages...
And how many people would have died without healing magic? Who are the only people who can seal Veil Tears? And on the nonmage side, how much blood has been shed by them in wars or by brigands, assassins, thugs, or even mages ordered to do something, since those scenarios the mage is just a weapon being used? Mages have been locked away for centuries, so pretty much every death in between Blights is almost solely the result of nonmages.
Point is, yes mages are dangerous. I'm not arguing that they aren't. However, at the same time nonmages are just as dangerous, and thus should be treated the same as mages. Whether that means laxer treatment of mages or stricter treatment of nonmages is up to you.
Medhia Nox wrote...
@Komandor: The mages aren't going to just let you Tranquilize all of them.
With
that enacted - not even someone like myself could sideline against
Alrik's talk. You would galvanize every mage availabe into a far
bloodier revolution than what I believe you're going to have now.
And I can almost guarantee that a mage is not behind the Veil Tears (or at least a Circle mage).
Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 22 décembre 2013 - 07:41 .
The mages can't block the progress of anything. They have no social standing, remember? Any blocking of medicinal advancemwent is on the Chantry's shoulders since they are the ones who have mages heal people instead of learning physical methods. And no, Loghain did not nearly destroy it in the sense of leading the Darkspawn horde, but in the sense of his racism of Orlesians divided the nation and pretty much made the Darkspawn advance much simpler so he is just as much to blame for every Ferelden death at their hands as the Darkspawn are.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
And how many have access to healing magic outside nobles giving that mages block progress of medicine.And not still loghain never destroyed even nearly ferelden only blight did it and loghain paranoia only make it easier but still blights are mages blame. And well everything you pointed was part of history in real world and even is but still our world didn't had even half of problems that mages caused.So you pointed another damage caused by mages. And no we saw apostates , blood mages and abomnations free add to that tevinter and we have a lot deaths caused by mages and most of them was locked in that time.
And no non-mages aren't just as dangerous they can't destroy world just because one of them had bad day and even purposely non-mage can't do that when mage can do that not intentionally. So kill them all is perfect solution to solve problem...
Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 22 décembre 2013 - 07:51 .
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
The mages can't block the progress of anything. They have no social standing, remember? Any blocking of medicinal advancemwent is on the Chantry's shoulders since they are the ones who have mages heal people instead of learning physical methods. And no, Loghain did not nearly destroy it in the sense of leading the Darkspawn horde, but in the sense of his racism of Orlesians divided the nation and pretty much made the Darkspawn advance much simpler so he is just as much to blame for every Ferelden death at their hands as the Darkspawn are.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
And how many have access to healing magic outside nobles giving that mages block progress of medicine.And not still loghain never destroyed even nearly ferelden only blight did it and loghain paranoia only make it easier but still blights are mages blame. And well everything you pointed was part of history in real world and even is but still our world didn't had even half of problems that mages caused.So you pointed another damage caused by mages. And no we saw apostates , blood mages and abomnations free add to that tevinter and we have a lot deaths caused by mages and most of them was locked in that time.
And no non-mages aren't just as dangerous they can't destroy world just because one of them had bad day and even purposely non-mage can't do that when mage can do that not intentionally. So kill them all is perfect solution to solve problem...
So Thedas was peaceful ever since the circles were started. I must have dreamt that whole Orlais and Ferelden conflict then. And that's just one instance. And as for Tevinter, look at both sides. The Tevinter Imperium, despite all its faults, are serving as practically a shield againt the Qunari for the rest of Thedas.
And again yes, a nonmage can destroy the world just as easily as a mage. Nonmages suffer the same drives mages due, and thus can do the same things to acheive those ends. The only difference is one uses a blade and the other a spell.
mx_keep13 wrote...
@Komandor Mages don't block progress
the chantry does, they outlawed anatomy out of fear of blood magic a
valid fear mind you, but having mundanes practice it makes the risk
minimal, and killing all mages based on what might happen is really
impractical.
Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 22 décembre 2013 - 08:01 .
You realize that is the Qunari attacked the rest of Thedas, it would also tear open the Veil. That is caused by bloodshed, you said so yourself, so it doesn't matter who is responsible for all the death to cause it to happen. And yet without mages, you are now lacking one of the only weapons to stop the demon hordes.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
The mages can't block the progress of anything. They have no social standing, remember? Any blocking of medicinal advancemwent is on the Chantry's shoulders since they are the ones who have mages heal people instead of learning physical methods. And no, Loghain did not nearly destroy it in the sense of leading the Darkspawn horde, but in the sense of his racism of Orlesians divided the nation and pretty much made the Darkspawn advance much simpler so he is just as much to blame for every Ferelden death at their hands as the Darkspawn are.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
And how many have access to healing magic outside nobles giving that mages block progress of medicine.And not still loghain never destroyed even nearly ferelden only blight did it and loghain paranoia only make it easier but still blights are mages blame. And well everything you pointed was part of history in real world and even is but still our world didn't had even half of problems that mages caused.So you pointed another damage caused by mages. And no we saw apostates , blood mages and abomnations free add to that tevinter and we have a lot deaths caused by mages and most of them was locked in that time.
And no non-mages aren't just as dangerous they can't destroy world just because one of them had bad day and even purposely non-mage can't do that when mage can do that not intentionally. So kill them all is perfect solution to solve problem...
So Thedas was peaceful ever since the circles were started. I must have dreamt that whole Orlais and Ferelden conflict then. And that's just one instance. And as for Tevinter, look at both sides. The Tevinter Imperium, despite all its faults, are serving as practically a shield againt the Qunari for the rest of Thedas.
And again yes, a nonmage can destroy the world just as easily as a mage. Nonmages suffer the same drives mages due, and thus can do the same things to acheive those ends. The only difference is one uses a blade and the other a spell.
To be honest qunari vs world destruction isn't bad alternative at least i could escape.Mages block advancement of technology because everyone try use magic (in most cases it have fatal consequences) and well healing mages block normal medicine.Still darkspawn caused destruction (and mages are blame for darkspawn) without them loghian wouldn't do anything.Ok lets asume that we have person A and person B person A is normal human nothing extraordinary person B can trun into nuclear bomb when gets angry or sad guess who is more dangerous and both are drived by that same things...
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