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[Lord Raijin]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

IMO R.o.T seems to be far more dangerous than you would expect, especially since Alrik seem to have some form of control over his tranquil victims back in DA2. Sure you can take away mages magic talents by severing their connection to the fade, but as a result from doing this you also decapitate their emotions thus becoming an emotionless psychopathic beings. Since emotions plays a huge part of our lives, and to help us make rightful decisions without emotions you can't possibly make these rightful decisions.

Since psycopaths are driven by egocentrism and a general desire for self-fulfillment, Tranquil does not become psychopaths. They become beings driven purely by logic and rational thought. Unless you claim that all kinds of empathy and synpathy are purely irrational and illogical, then the Tranquil are not above such thoughts. They simply approach them differently to normal human-beings.

I question this logic and rational thoughts that the tranquil seems to have. Why did Karl decided to snitch out his bestfriend, as a Tranquil, to the Templar's?  When he was his former self he didn't seem the type that would this kind of behavior, especially aiding the templars to capture his bestfriend. As a tranquil he was actually avocating the Rite of Tranqulity to Anders whereas he explained how aweful it was when he temporary became himself.

The tranquils are suppose to have free will too, right? Karl didn't seem to have free will and neither did that female tranquil that was talking to her former mage boyfriend in the gallows.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lord Raijin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

IMO R.o.T seems to be far more dangerous than you would expect, especially since Alrik seem to have some form of control over his tranquil victims back in DA2. Sure you can take away mages magic talents by severing their connection to the fade, but as a result from doing this you also decapitate their emotions thus becoming an emotionless psychopathic beings. Since emotions plays a huge part of our lives, and to help us make rightful decisions without emotions you can't possibly make these rightful decisions.

Since psycopaths are driven by egocentrism and a general desire for self-fulfillment, Tranquil does not become psychopaths. They become beings driven purely by logic and rational thought. Unless you claim that all kinds of empathy and synpathy are purely irrational and illogical, then the Tranquil are not above such thoughts. They simply approach them differently to normal human-beings.

I question this logic and rational thoughts that the tranquil seems to have. Why did Karl decided to snitch out his bestfriend, as a Tranquil, to the Templar's?  When he was his former self he didn't seem the type that would this kind of behavior, especially aiding the templars to capture his bestfriend. As a tranquil he was actually avocating the Rite of Tranqulity to Anders whereas he explained how aweful it was when he temporary became himself.

The tranquils are suppose to have free will too, right? Karl didn't seem to have free will and neither did that female tranquil that was talking to her former mage boyfriend in the gallows.

Simple. The Tranquil see the Templars as protectors, and as such will help them in exchange for that protection. And the things that would normally cause resistance, like friendship or morality, are no longer in the way. They only see logic, and it is logical for them to side with the stronger force for survival.

[MisterJB]

Master Warder Z wrote...
Besides i have a feeling if you follow the templar storyline she does end up a corpse somewhere near the end of it.

You are far more optimistic than me regarding the possibility of a "Templar Storyline" in DAI.
As of now, I think a repeat of ME3 Cerberus is more likely.

[Hellion Rex]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Simple. The Tranquil see the Templars as protectors, and as such will help them in exchange for that protection. And the things that would normally cause resistance, like friendship or morality, are no longer in the way. They only see logic, and it is logical for them to side with the stronger force for survival.

Not necessarily, considering we had one Tranquil help the mages escape in Asunder.


Edit: Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, BSN family!

Modifié par eluvianix, 24 décembre 2013 - 03:43 .

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
Besides i have a feeling if you follow the templar storyline she does end up a corpse somewhere near the end of it.

You are far more optimistic than me regarding the possibility of a "Templar Storyline" in DAI.
As of now, I think a repeat of ME3 Cerberus is more likely.

I hope to God that the Templars are not reduced to Cerberus status in DAI. They deserve better than that. Red Templars, I don't care about. But I am hoping that the Reds only represent the more extremist of Lambert's forces and that they broke away from his main camp.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Once again you gave no motive why the demons wants to experience the mortal world. According to justice many spirits see the mortal world as something that is rather disgusting. so you come tho this

Codex entry: The Maker
Codex entry: The Fade

both are far better explanation then just wanting to be in the mortal world. And you can indeed ask why? an immortal being has no use for a mortal one unless the mortal being has something the immortal being needs 

Forgive me if I am not about to use religious creation mythos as any kind of evidence towards the motivations of demons. Spirits and Demons are not deathless, since Justice very clearly says that Spirits and Demons ceases to exist just like mortals. They may not age as mortals, but they do die.
And we don't know exactly what motivates the Demons to possess mages and others in the physical realm. But specifying this motivation is not a requirement to figure out that mages are their prefered target. Which was the only point I was making.
That mundanes holds just as much interest and is just as lucrative a target as mages, which you claim, is completely unsupported by the lore so far.

DKJaigen wrote...

Demons are not "basically gods" in the Fade. The Fade itself follows an entirely different set of rules compared to Thedas. ANY being who walks the Fade can will anything into existence. However, the only beings from the physical realm to do so consciously are the Mages, which no doubt is also one of the reason the demons holds such interest in mages.

If you will things into being (all the structures and landscapes are a manifestation of the will of a demon or spirit) then they are pretty godlike in the fade. And i ask you once again why do demons hold any interrest to mages. they can influence the fade. So what? what makes makes the mage such an attraction to the mage? 

ANYONE can will things into existence in the Fade. So by your definition EVERYONE in the Fade is godlike. But by that very definition of everyone being godlike, means that NONE are godlike in the Fade.
And how would I know the motivations of Demons? But, as you pointed out yourself, the mages are UNIQUE in their conenction to the Fade, and undoubtedly THAT is what makes them such attractive targets to the Demons.

DKJaigen wrote...

Mages are the ONLY beings the demon will actively seek to possess. Otherwise the demon will have somehow already had to crossed the veil. And more than like if you gave the demon a choice, it would always choose to possess the mage.

Mages have a direct link to the fade so they come in contact with demons far more often. but during the shale quest the desire demon was perfectly happy to possess a young girl or an adult man who are not mages even if yourself wynne or morrigan where present. You are indeed correct that a mage is more preferrable to a demon. 

EVERYONE have a direct link to the Fade, be they mage, Dwarf or mundane. Mages are unique in their connection hwoever in that they can bring the Fade into the real world in the form of magic.
And we don't know wether or not Matthias and Amalia were mages. But even so it doesn't really matter, since the reason for it wanting to possess Amalia was because it was its only way to escape. And it probably didn't want to risk possessing one of three trained mages. Demons are not above self-preservation, especially not the more intellegent ones.

DKJaigen wrote...

And a demon possess a corpse, tree or rock because they fail to realize the difference between an inamitae object and a living thing. Not because they are "easy prey".

For weaker demons corpses make tempting targets, as the demon cannot
sense any resistance. When a sloth demon takes possession of a dead body
a shambling corpse is the result. Devouring corpses are held by hunger demons and feed upon the living. 

Uhm.. So you just described the differnet types of minor undead, and somehow that explains WHY a Demon possesses a corpse? Yeah... We are gonna chalk that up as "Nope" and move on...

DKJaigen wrote...
from the codex. So what the **** are you talking about not in lore?

Uhm yeah... NOTHING of what you said in this post supports your claim, that a mundane is just as attractive a target for a demon as a mage. So, yeah..... You STILL have no support from the lore to your claims..

Once again you give no motive why a demon would be interrested in mage.  your arguments are worthless . .Take the desire demon that corrupted the templar inside the circle and you understand the motive for the demons is their desire to experience human emotions and drive . thats in abundance in both normal people and mages. and thats what protected the tranquil as they have no emotions or desires.

Before i take any of your arguments seriously you need to provide me at least a theory why demons would be interrested to mages besides their connection to the fade because that proves nothing.

[DKJaigen]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
Besides i have a feeling if you follow the templar storyline she does end up a corpse somewhere near the end of it.

You are far more optimistic than me regarding the possibility of a "Templar Storyline" in DAI.
As of now, I think a repeat of ME3 Cerberus is more likely.

I hope to God that the Templars are not reduced to Cerberus status in DAI. They deserve better than that. Red Templars, I don't care about. But I am hoping that the Reds only represent the more extremist of Lambert's forces and that they broke away from his main camp.

You do realise that the remaining templars are firmly inside the divine's camp that is at this point greatly in favor of mages?

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

DKJaigen wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
Besides i have a feeling if you follow the templar storyline she does end up a corpse somewhere near the end of it.

You are far more optimistic than me regarding the possibility of a "Templar Storyline" in DAI.
As of now, I think a repeat of ME3 Cerberus is more likely.

I hope to God that the Templars are not reduced to Cerberus status in DAI. They deserve better than that. Red Templars, I don't care about. But I am hoping that the Reds only represent the more extremist of Lambert's forces and that they broke away from his main camp.

You do realise that the remaining templars are firmly inside the divine's camp that is at this point greatly in favor of mages?

Will be really annoying if the story makes me side with the mages no matter what, mages are dangerous & their rebellion should be crushed imo.

[TK514]

Lord Raijin wrote...

I question this logic and rational thoughts that the tranquil seems to have. Why did Karl decided to snitch out his bestfriend, as a Tranquil, to the Templar's?  When he was his former self he didn't seem the type that would this kind of behavior, especially aiding the templars to capture his bestfriend. As a tranquil he was actually avocating the Rite of Tranqulity to Anders whereas he explained how aweful it was when he temporary became himself.

The tranquils are suppose to have free will too, right? Karl didn't seem to have free will and neither did that female tranquil that was talking to her former mage boyfriend in the gallows.

Karl states explicitly why he tries to turn Anders over to the Templars.  He believed that the Templars would help Anders, and was doing his former friend a favor, from his perspective.  That's not a betrayal, it's an intervention.  One Anders desperately needed.  Unfortunately, it was too little, too late, though Karl had no way to know that at the time.

[Lord Raijin]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

IMO R.o.T seems to be far more dangerous than you would expect, especially since Alrik seem to have some form of control over his tranquil victims back in DA2. Sure you can take away mages magic talents by severing their connection to the fade, but as a result from doing this you also decapitate their emotions thus becoming an emotionless psychopathic beings. Since emotions plays a huge part of our lives, and to help us make rightful decisions without emotions you can't possibly make these rightful decisions.

Since psycopaths are driven by egocentrism and a general desire for self-fulfillment, Tranquil does not become psychopaths. They become beings driven purely by logic and rational thought. Unless you claim that all kinds of empathy and synpathy are purely irrational and illogical, then the Tranquil are not above such thoughts. They simply approach them differently to normal human-beings.

I question this logic and rational thoughts that the tranquil seems to have. Why did Karl decided to snitch out his bestfriend, as a Tranquil, to the Templar's?  When he was his former self he didn't seem the type that would this kind of behavior, especially aiding the templars to capture his bestfriend. As a tranquil he was actually avocating the Rite of Tranqulity to Anders whereas he explained how aweful it was when he temporary became himself.

The tranquils are suppose to have free will too, right? Karl didn't seem to have free will and neither did that female tranquil that was talking to her former mage boyfriend in the gallows.

Simple. The Tranquil see the Templars as protectors, and as such will help them in exchange for that protection. And the things that would normally cause resistance, like friendship or morality, are no longer in the way. They only see logic, and it is logical for them to side with the stronger force for survival.

Doesn't that required emotions to seek protection from another human being? Fear is an emotional response and the tranquil doesn't have emotions, well not anymore.

[Lord Raijin]

TK514 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I question this logic and rational thoughts that the tranquil seems to have. Why did Karl decided to snitch out his bestfriend, as a Tranquil, to the Templar's?  When he was his former self he didn't seem the type that would this kind of behavior, especially aiding the templars to capture his bestfriend. As a tranquil he was actually avocating the Rite of Tranqulity to Anders whereas he explained how aweful it was when he temporary became himself.

The tranquils are suppose to have free will too, right? Karl didn't seem to have free will and neither did that female tranquil that was talking to her former mage boyfriend in the gallows.

Karl states explicitly why he tries to turn Anders over to the Templars.  He believed that the Templars would help Anders, and was doing his former friend a favor, from his perspective.  That's not a betrayal, it's an intervention.  One Anders desperately needed.  Unfortunately, it was too little, too late, though Karl had no way to know that at the time.

If Karl was full of logic and had this will of his own then he should have acknowledge that the Templar's was not going to "help" him but rather do harm to his bestfriend, as a mage. The Templar's were not going to give Anders pretty red flowers, they were either going to execute him on sight or take him back to the gallows where he would be made tranquil, especially while Ser Otto Alrik was still alive at the time. Karl should've put two together, since according to the Wika the tranquil do not lose their memory.

Anders doesn't need an intervention. The one who needed it the most was the Grand Cleric... who sat around and done nothing while her city was in shambles that was caused by her Kight-Commander; who was turning the city into a war zone.

[DKJaigen]

Threat300 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
Besides i have a feeling if you follow the templar storyline she does end up a corpse somewhere near the end of it.

You are far more optimistic than me regarding the possibility of a "Templar Storyline" in DAI.
As of now, I think a repeat of ME3 Cerberus is more likely.

I hope to God that the Templars are not reduced to Cerberus status in DAI. They deserve better than that. Red Templars, I don't care about. But I am hoping that the Reds only represent the more extremist of Lambert's forces and that they broke away from his main camp.

You do realise that the remaining templars are firmly inside the divine's camp that is at this point greatly in favor of mages?

Will be really annoying if the story makes me side with the mages no matter what, mages are dangerous & their rebellion should be crushed imo.

That may be so But what the templars did is treason against the chantry and causing a war without any diplomatic attempts is a crime against orlais . Any soldier or police officer would **** over the templars and their self righteous bigottery.

If you do something as stupid as siding with the red templars i hope the game gives you a nice big game over screen because you just killed the only people that can close a fade tear. And dont look so suprised if BW learned some lesson from the witcher where stupid decesions will get you killed.

[Master Warder Z_]

Lord Raijin wrote...

TK514 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I question this logic and rational thoughts that the tranquil seems to have. Why did Karl decided to snitch out his bestfriend, as a Tranquil, to the Templar's?  When he was his former self he didn't seem the type that would this kind of behavior, especially aiding the templars to capture his bestfriend. As a tranquil he was actually avocating the Rite of Tranqulity to Anders whereas he explained how aweful it was when he temporary became himself.

The tranquils are suppose to have free will too, right? Karl didn't seem to have free will and neither did that female tranquil that was talking to her former mage boyfriend in the gallows.

Karl states explicitly why he tries to turn Anders over to the Templars.  He believed that the Templars would help Anders, and was doing his former friend a favor, from his perspective.  That's not a betrayal, it's an intervention.  One Anders desperately needed.  Unfortunately, it was too little, too late, though Karl had no way to know that at the time.

If Karl was full of logic and had this will of his own then he should have acknowledge that the Templar's was not going to "help" him but rather do harm to his bestfriend, as a mage. The Templar's were not going to give Anders pretty red flowers, they were either going to execute him on sight or take him back to the gallows where he would be made tranquil, especially while Ser Otto Alrik was still alive at the time. Karl should've put two together, since according to the Wika the tranquil do not lose their memory.

Anders doesn't need an intervention. The one who needed it the most was the Grand Cleric... who sat around and done nothing while her city was in shambles that was caused by her Kight-Commander; who was turning the city into a war zone.

You quite right, he didn't need an intervention he needed a beheading.

But from Karl's perspective i really cannot fault the man for his actions tranquil or no and that said.

...So trying to remove a deranged abomination from the streets is some how a bad thing now?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lord Raijin wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
I question this logic and rational thoughts that the tranquil seems to have. Why did Karl decided to snitch out his bestfriend, as a Tranquil, to the Templar's?  When he was his former self he didn't seem the type that would this kind of behavior, especially aiding the templars to capture his bestfriend. As a tranquil he was actually avocating the Rite of Tranqulity to Anders whereas he explained how aweful it was when he temporary became himself.

The tranquils are suppose to have free will too, right? Karl didn't seem to have free will and neither did that female tranquil that was talking to her former mage boyfriend in the gallows.

Simple. The Tranquil see the Templars as protectors, and as such will help them in exchange for that protection. And the things that would normally cause resistance, like friendship or morality, are no longer in the way. They only see logic, and it is logical for them to side with the stronger force for survival.

Doesn't that required emotions to seek protection from another human being? Fear is an emotional response and the tranquil doesn't have emotions, well not anymore.

Not really. It's more fueled by their self-preservation instinct than fear. 

[Master Warder Z_]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
I question this logic and rational thoughts that the tranquil seems to have. Why did Karl decided to snitch out his bestfriend, as a Tranquil, to the Templar's?  When he was his former self he didn't seem the type that would this kind of behavior, especially aiding the templars to capture his bestfriend. As a tranquil he was actually avocating the Rite of Tranqulity to Anders whereas he explained how aweful it was when he temporary became himself.

The tranquils are suppose to have free will too, right? Karl didn't seem to have free will and neither did that female tranquil that was talking to her former mage boyfriend in the gallows.

Simple. The Tranquil see the Templars as protectors, and as such will help them in exchange for that protection. And the things that would normally cause resistance, like friendship or morality, are no longer in the way. They only see logic, and it is logical for them to side with the stronger force for survival.

Doesn't that required emotions to seek protection from another human being? Fear is an emotional response and the tranquil doesn't have emotions, well not anymore.

Not really. It's more fueled by their self-preservation instinct than fear. 

Owain is a notable example of a tranquil exhibiting a fairly strong sense of self preservation.

[Lord Raijin]

Master Warder Z wrote...
You quite right, he didn't need an intervention he needed a beheading.

But from Karl's perspective i really cannot fault the man for his actions tranquil or no and that said.

...So trying to remove a deranged abomination from the streets is some how a bad thing now?

The one who needed a good beheading is the Knight-Commander herself. Shes the one that caused the total destruction of the city, and so did the Grand Cleric... in fact she too deserves a good beheading as well as her mock daughter.

Too bad the viscount was a puppet of the Templars/Chantry because he allowed them to do this to his city.

Had Perrin Threnhold been Viscount during Meredith rampage he would've had that b@ich executed without a doubt.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 24 décembre 2013 - 06:33 .

[Master Warder Z_]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
You quite right, he didn't need an intervention he needed a beheading.

But from Karl's perspective i really cannot fault the man for his actions tranquil or no and that said.

...So trying to remove a deranged abomination from the streets is some how a bad thing now?

The one who needed a good behading is the Knight-Commander herself. Shes the one that caused the total destruction of the city, and so did the Grand Cleric... in fact she too deserves a good beheading as well as her mock daughter.

Too bad the viscount was a puppet of the Templars/Chantry because he allowed them to do this to his city.

Had Perrin Threnhold been Viscount during Meredith rampage he would've had that b@ich executed without a doubt.

No Anders and his stupidity caused the destruction of city, in fact mages as a whole caused the entirity of the incident. I do so enjoy how even mages called him a Madman for his actions, because in truth? the Man doesn't need nor remotely deserve to be a symbol for mage freedom, he should be up there with Malcolm X and Bin Laden, Not Andraste.

Once again ignoring how mages and their stupidity caused the entire situation eh? Somethings never change i suppose.

Its so easy to blame the templars for reacting to the situation as best they could, but of course their patience, mercy and understanding would be exploited until Meridith finally did what was needed and anulled that circle.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
You quite right, he didn't need an intervention he needed a beheading.

But from Karl's perspective i really cannot fault the man for his actions tranquil or no and that said.

...So trying to remove a deranged abomination from the streets is some how a bad thing now?

The one who needed a good behading is the Knight-Commander herself. Shes the one that caused the total destruction of the city, and so did the Grand Cleric... in fact she too deserves a good beheading as well as her mock daughter.

Too bad the viscount was a puppet of the Templars/Chantry because he allowed them to do this to his city.

Had Perrin Threnhold been Viscount during Meredith rampage he would've had that b@ich executed without a doubt.

No Anders and his stupidity caused the destruction of city, in fact mages as a whole caused the entirity of the incident. I do so enjoy how even mages called him a Madman for his actions, because in truth? the Man doesn't need nor remotely deserve to be a symbol for mage freedom, he should be up there with Malcolm X and Bin Laden, Not Andraste.

Once again ignoring how mages and their stupidity caused the entire situation eh? Somethings never change i suppose.

Its so easy to blame the templars for reacting to the situation as best they could, but of course their patience, mercy and understanding would be exploited until Meridith finally did what was needed and anulled that circle.

Well, I say the fault of the tension that caused Anders to do what he did is equal fault. As Varric says in the transition from Act 2 to Act 3, "The more she(Meredith) squeezed the mages, the more they resisted. The more they resisted, the tighter she squeezed. After three years of this, it all came crashing down."

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 24 décembre 2013 - 06:42 .

[Master Warder Z_]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
You quite right, he didn't need an intervention he needed a beheading.

But from Karl's perspective i really cannot fault the man for his actions tranquil or no and that said.

...So trying to remove a deranged abomination from the streets is some how a bad thing now?

The one who needed a good behading is the Knight-Commander herself. Shes the one that caused the total destruction of the city, and so did the Grand Cleric... in fact she too deserves a good beheading as well as her mock daughter.

Too bad the viscount was a puppet of the Templars/Chantry because he allowed them to do this to his city.

Had Perrin Threnhold been Viscount during Meredith rampage he would've had that b@ich executed without a doubt.

No Anders and his stupidity caused the destruction of city, in fact mages as a whole caused the entirity of the incident. I do so enjoy how even mages called him a Madman for his actions, because in truth? the Man doesn't need nor remotely deserve to be a symbol for mage freedom, he should be up there with Malcolm X and Bin Laden, Not Andraste.

Once again ignoring how mages and their stupidity caused the entire situation eh? Somethings never change i suppose.

Its so easy to blame the templars for reacting to the situation as best they could, but of course their patience, mercy and understanding would be exploited until Meridith finally did what was needed and anulled that circle.

Well, I say the fault of the tension that caused Anders to do what he did is equal fault. As Varric says in the transition from Act 2 to Act 3, "The more she(Meredith) squeezed the mages, the more they resisted. The more they resisted, the tighter she squeezed. After three years of this, it all came crashing down."

True enough i suppose but the entire situation set up like that due to the idiocy of mages like Orsino, Grace, Decimus, Anders and crud why not just throw in the entire mage underground?

The Irony is had these people not hindered the templars at EVERY single step, its VERY unlikely any of those oppressive measures would have been used, so you see from my perspective? The entire build of tension, of the situation it self was caused both indirectly and directly by the mages and their actions.

Again the templars were mostly reactionary, apart from a few well meaning souls such as Ser Alrik.

Poor Bugger, still think had his plan been implented it very well could have aborted the entire rebellion before it occured.

[Lord Raijin]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
You quite right, he didn't need an intervention he needed a beheading.

But from Karl's perspective i really cannot fault the man for his actions tranquil or no and that said.

...So trying to remove a deranged abomination from the streets is some how a bad thing now?

The one who needed a good behading is the Knight-Commander herself. Shes the one that caused the total destruction of the city, and so did the Grand Cleric... in fact she too deserves a good beheading as well as her mock daughter.

Too bad the viscount was a puppet of the Templars/Chantry because he allowed them to do this to his city.

Had Perrin Threnhold been Viscount during Meredith rampage he would've had that b@ich executed without a doubt.

No Anders and his stupidity caused the destruction of city, in fact mages as a whole caused the entirity of the incident. I do so enjoy how even mages called him a Madman for his actions, because in truth? the Man doesn't need nor remotely deserve to be a symbol for mage freedom, he should be up there with Malcolm X and Bin Laden, Not Andraste.

Once again ignoring how mages and their stupidity caused the entire situation eh? Somethings never change i suppose.

Its so easy to blame the templars for reacting to the situation as best they could, but of course their patience, mercy and understanding would be exploited until Meridith finally did what was needed and anulled that circle.

So what you're trying to tell me that Varric's narration about the Knigh-Commander is false and that Anders is to blame for all of the blood mages in the city? That's just flat out ridiculous. Anders is a member of the Mage undeground which consist of non-mages who aids apostates out of the city.  Anders did far more good to the city then the Templars. Cullen even knowledges that the Templars are losing the support from the public.

Its so easy to blame the Mages for reacting to the situation as best
they could, but of course their patience, mercy and understanding would
be exploited until the Mages finally did what was needed and wanted to fight back.

Yeah lets keep calling mages stupid and blame Anders for every single thing that is wrong in Kirkwall. Let's not blame the Templar's, since they're so obviously innocent, and play no part of what was going on.

[Master Warder Z_]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
You quite right, he didn't need an intervention he needed a beheading.

But from Karl's perspective i really cannot fault the man for his actions tranquil or no and that said.

...So trying to remove a deranged abomination from the streets is some how a bad thing now?

The one who needed a good behading is the Knight-Commander herself. Shes the one that caused the total destruction of the city, and so did the Grand Cleric... in fact she too deserves a good beheading as well as her mock daughter.

Too bad the viscount was a puppet of the Templars/Chantry because he allowed them to do this to his city.

Had Perrin Threnhold been Viscount during Meredith rampage he would've had that b@ich executed without a doubt.

No Anders and his stupidity caused the destruction of city, in fact mages as a whole caused the entirity of the incident. I do so enjoy how even mages called him a Madman for his actions, because in truth? the Man doesn't need nor remotely deserve to be a symbol for mage freedom, he should be up there with Malcolm X and Bin Laden, Not Andraste.

Once again ignoring how mages and their stupidity caused the entire situation eh? Somethings never change i suppose.

Its so easy to blame the templars for reacting to the situation as best they could, but of course their patience, mercy and understanding would be exploited until Meridith finally did what was needed and anulled that circle.

So what you're trying to tell me that Varric's narration about the Knigh-Commander is false and that Anders is to blame for all of the blood mages in the city? That's just flat out ridiculous. Anders is a member of the Mage undeground which consist of non-mages who aids apostates out of the city.  Anders did far more good to the city then the Templars. Cullen even knowledges that the Templars are losing the support from the public.

Its so easy to blame the Mages for reacting to the situation as best
they could, but of course their patience, mercy and understanding would
be exploited until the Mages finally did what was needed and wanted to fight back.

Yeah lets keep calling mages stupid and blame Anders for every single thing that is wrong in Kirkwall. Let's not blame the Templar's, since they're so obviously innocent, and play no part of what was going on.

@ the highlighted section.

Pretty much.

Modifié par Master Warder Z , 24 décembre 2013 - 07:11 .

[Lord Raijin]

@Master Warder Z It seems as if were playing a different game because the Templars was the source of the probem in the City. The mages started to defend themselves against their jailers.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Well, I say the fault of the tension that caused Anders to do what he did is equal fault. As Varric says in the transition from Act 2 to Act 3, "The more she(Meredith) squeezed the mages, the more they resisted. The more they resisted, the tighter she squeezed. After three years of this, it all came crashing down."

True enough i suppose but the entire situation set up like that due to the idiocy of mages like Orsino, Grace, Decimus, Anders and crud why not just throw in the entire mage underground?

The Irony is had these people not hindered the templars at EVERY single step, its VERY unlikely any of those oppressive measures would have been used, so you see from my perspective? The entire build of tension, of the situation it self was caused both indirectly and directly by the mages and their actions.

Again the templars were mostly reactionary, apart from a few well meaning souls such as Ser Alrik.

Poor Bugger, still think had his plan been implented it very well could have aborted the entire rebellion before it occured.

Yeah, I can see your side. However, I also see the Mages' side as well. We don't know who did the first move, so we can't say for certain who was just reacting. 

And sorry, but Alrik was never well meaning. Despite the benefits you see for his Tranquil Solution, he was using it to rape mages. Nothing more and nothing less. 

[Iron Fist]

Screw the templars. And screw the mages.

The proletariat shall unite to conquer the whole of Thedas! Peasant power!

[Master Warder Z_]

Lord Raijin wrote...

@Master Warder Z It seems as if were playing a different game because the Templars was the source of the probem in the City. The mages started to defend themselves against their jailers.

Jailers? You mean those who took up the position to protect them and the world from themselves and their curse? 

That said.

It probably comes from our differing perspective of mages, templars and magic no?

That seems Logical to me anyway.

I view it as a curse and those cursed with it as a danger.

You very likely don't thus any of our intreptations of events would undoubtly differ yes?

But ultimately i have ordered structured debate, fought for my point of view and very little seems to have occured.

I do believe lines have already been drawn here and i doubt they will change, my opinions of mages will likely remain the same, as will your own.

I have already drawn a sword of mercy to crush the rebellion and i doubt my opinion will change at least until DAI is released...Ander's did very poorly with the whole mage freedom pitch, Kirkwall did very poorly in its attempt to win me over.

After all the conclusion i ultimately gained was that the place should have been anulled years before it was, hardly the message the mages intended no?