MevenSelas wrote...
Screw the templars. And screw the mages.
The proletariat shall unite to conquer the whole of Thedas! Peasant power!
Master Warder Z wrote...
MevenSelas wrote...
Screw the templars. And screw the mages.
The proletariat shall unite to conquer the whole of Thedas! Peasant power!
Erm...This is medievil europe fantasy.
Not Cold War and pre world war one europe fantansy
Communism isn't here yet...Except in its very Military junta esc form via the Qunari and Qun.
MevenSelas wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
MevenSelas wrote...
Screw the templars. And screw the mages.
The proletariat shall unite to conquer the whole of Thedas! Peasant power!
Erm...This is medievil europe fantasy.
Not Cold War and pre world war one europe fantansy
Communism isn't here yet...Except in its very Military junta esc form via the Qunari and Qun.
The historical analogy is pretty thin, considering the high level of gender equality in Thedas and the weakening power of the Chantry.
It's only a matter of time before the peasants rise.
Master Warder Z wrote...
MevenSelas wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
MevenSelas wrote...
Screw the templars. And screw the mages.
The proletariat shall unite to conquer the whole of Thedas! Peasant power!
Erm...This is medievil europe fantasy.
Not Cold War and pre world war one europe fantansy
Communism isn't here yet...Except in its very Military junta esc form via the Qunari and Qun.
The historical analogy is pretty thin, considering the high level of gender equality in Thedas and the weakening power of the Chantry.
It's only a matter of time before the peasants rise.
Yeah...And replace the lords they overthrow with themselves.
There is no indicator at all what you speak of will even occur and even if it did, it would just result in new dynasties of Monarchy, not Communes popping up over the countryside.
Furthermore if you recall how exactly this went down in the Orlais occupation of Fereldan, you realize armored seasoned soldiers wouldn't have much trouble popping down said rebellion to begin with.
Peasants are just that, peasants.
Its partly why you needed a military superpower backing communism in the first place for its expansion to work.
Master Warder Z wrote...
Lord Raijin wrote...
@Master Warder Z It seems as if were playing a different game because the Templars was the source of the probem in the City. The mages started to defend themselves against their jailers.
Jailers? You mean those who took up the position to protect them and the world from themselves and their curse?
That said.
It probably comes from our differing perspective of mages, templars and magic no?
That seems Logical to me anyway.
I view it as a curse and those cursed with it as a danger.
You very likely don't thus any of our intreptations of events would undoubtly differ yes?
But ultimately i have ordered structured debate, fought for my point of view and very little seems to have occured.
I do believe lines have already been drawn here and i doubt they will change, my opinions of mages will likely remain the same, as will your own.
I have already drawn a sword of mercy to crush the rebellion and i doubt my opinion will change at least until DAI is released...Ander's did very poorly with the whole mage freedom pitch, Kirkwall did very poorly in its attempt to win me over.
After all the conclusion i ultimately gained was that the place should have been anulled years before it was, hardly the message the mages intended no?
Lord Raijin wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
Lord Raijin wrote...
@Master Warder Z It seems as if were playing a different game because the Templars was the source of the probem in the City. The mages started to defend themselves against their jailers.
Jailers? You mean those who took up the position to protect them and the world from themselves and their curse?
That said.
It probably comes from our differing perspective of mages, templars and magic no?
That seems Logical to me anyway.
I view it as a curse and those cursed with it as a danger.
You very likely don't thus any of our intreptations of events would undoubtly differ yes?
But ultimately i have ordered structured debate, fought for my point of view and very little seems to have occured.
I do believe lines have already been drawn here and i doubt they will change, my opinions of mages will likely remain the same, as will your own.
I have already drawn a sword of mercy to crush the rebellion and i doubt my opinion will change at least until DAI is released...Ander's did very poorly with the whole mage freedom pitch, Kirkwall did very poorly in its attempt to win me over.
After all the conclusion i ultimately gained was that the place should have been anulled years before it was, hardly the message the mages intended no?
They're far from "protecting" the mages from their "curse" in Kirkwall. Perhabs back in Fereldens Circle Templar's were actually doing their job, but not in Kirkwall. Instead of helping them they were abusing them through sexual assault and through physical abuse. Their were a lot of illegal tranquilization from Harrowed mages taking place, and I find it hard to believe that Meredith could not see it, she allowed it to happen regardless. What happen to Karl was highly illegal by Chantry law, and nothing more. Didn't you hear in the background, as you were in the gallows of beatings going on? The fact that these poor mages can't even speak to anyone without getting 50 lashes? That is not helping but abusing and that is why the mages were no longer tollerating their Jailers's crap, and decided to fight instead of taking it. Anders actually gave the grand Cleric a benefit of the doubt, but at the end it became useless since Elthina had no intentions to intervenve and to do something about her unruley Commander.
Another thing is the nobility shouldn't have to kiss the Templar's ass just to get elected. It should be the Templar's who should be kissing the nobilities ass, and prove themselves worthy to the city of Kirkwall.
Master Warder Z wrote...
Lord Raijin wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
Lord Raijin wrote...
@Master Warder Z It seems as if were playing a different game because the Templars was the source of the probem in the City. The mages started to defend themselves against their jailers.
Jailers? You mean those who took up the position to protect them and the world from themselves and their curse?
That said.
It probably comes from our differing perspective of mages, templars and magic no?
That seems Logical to me anyway.
I view it as a curse and those cursed with it as a danger.
You very likely don't thus any of our intreptations of events would undoubtly differ yes?
But ultimately i have ordered structured debate, fought for my point of view and very little seems to have occured.
I do believe lines have already been drawn here and i doubt they will change, my opinions of mages will likely remain the same, as will your own.
I have already drawn a sword of mercy to crush the rebellion and i doubt my opinion will change at least until DAI is released...Ander's did very poorly with the whole mage freedom pitch, Kirkwall did very poorly in its attempt to win me over.
After all the conclusion i ultimately gained was that the place should have been anulled years before it was, hardly the message the mages intended no?
They're far from "protecting" the mages from their "curse" in Kirkwall. Perhabs back in Fereldens Circle Templar's were actually doing their job, but not in Kirkwall. Instead of helping them they were abusing them through sexual assault and through physical abuse. Their were a lot of illegal tranquilization from Harrowed mages taking place, and I find it hard to believe that Meredith could not see it, she allowed it to happen regardless. What happen to Karl was highly illegal by Chantry law, and nothing more. Didn't you hear in the background, as you were in the gallows of beatings going on? The fact that these poor mages can't even speak to anyone without getting 50 lashes? That is not helping but abusing and that is why the mages were no longer tollerating their Jailers's crap, and decided to fight instead of taking it. Anders actually gave the grand Cleric a benefit of the doubt, but at the end it became useless since Elthina had no intentions to intervenve and to do something about her unruley Commander.
Another thing is the nobility shouldn't have to kiss the Templar's ass just to get elected. It should be the Templar's who should be kissing the nobilities ass, and prove themselves worthy to the city of Kirkwall.
That's Your perspective of events.
I already stated i had my own.
Modifié par Lord Raijin, 24 décembre 2013 - 08:16 .
Lord Raijin wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
Lord Raijin wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
Lord Raijin wrote...
@Master Warder Z It seems as if were playing a different game because the Templars was the source of the probem in the City. The mages started to defend themselves against their jailers.
Jailers? You mean those who took up the position to protect them and the world from themselves and their curse?
That said.
It probably comes from our differing perspective of mages, templars and magic no?
That seems Logical to me anyway.
I view it as a curse and those cursed with it as a danger.
You very likely don't thus any of our intreptations of events would undoubtly differ yes?
But ultimately i have ordered structured debate, fought for my point of view and very little seems to have occured.
I do believe lines have already been drawn here and i doubt they will change, my opinions of mages will likely remain the same, as will your own.
I have already drawn a sword of mercy to crush the rebellion and i doubt my opinion will change at least until DAI is released...Ander's did very poorly with the whole mage freedom pitch, Kirkwall did very poorly in its attempt to win me over.
After all the conclusion i ultimately gained was that the place should have been anulled years before it was, hardly the message the mages intended no?
They're far from "protecting" the mages from their "curse" in Kirkwall. Perhabs back in Fereldens Circle Templar's were actually doing their job, but not in Kirkwall. Instead of helping them they were abusing them through sexual assault and through physical abuse. Their were a lot of illegal tranquilization from Harrowed mages taking place, and I find it hard to believe that Meredith could not see it, she allowed it to happen regardless. What happen to Karl was highly illegal by Chantry law, and nothing more. Didn't you hear in the background, as you were in the gallows of beatings going on? The fact that these poor mages can't even speak to anyone without getting 50 lashes? That is not helping but abusing and that is why the mages were no longer tollerating their Jailers's crap, and decided to fight instead of taking it. Anders actually gave the grand Cleric a benefit of the doubt, but at the end it became useless since Elthina had no intentions to intervenve and to do something about her unruley Commander.
Another thing is the nobility shouldn't have to kiss the Templar's ass just to get elected. It should be the Templar's who should be kissing the nobilities ass, and prove themselves worthy to the city of Kirkwall.
That's Your perspective of events.
I already stated i had my own.
I see the facts. I'm not sure where you're getting yours from. Like I said before you and I are probably playing a different game.
Master Warder Z wrote...
It does truely sometimes astound me though how people can be pro mage after Kirkwall though. You know what with the rampant blood magic, the countless abominations and the circle being a corrupt cesspool.
And what you have is personal fact, aka perspective or personal logic;not definitive nor historical fact.
Veruin wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
It does truely sometimes astound me though how people can be pro mage after Kirkwall though. You know what with the rampant blood magic, the countless abominations and the circle being a corrupt cesspool.
And what you have is personal fact, aka perspective or personal logic;not definitive nor historical fact.
It astounds me how people can take what happened in Kirkwall as gospel for what happens in the other, what 12-13 circles we have?
Master Warder Z wrote...
After all the conclusion i ultimately gained was that the place should have been anulled years before it was, hardly the message the mages intended no?
cjones91 wrote...
By that logic then every templar must be sadistic raping tyrants based on how they acted in Kirkwall.But we all know that's not the case so why paint all mages with the same brush just because of what happened in Kirkwall?
Master Warder Z wrote...
It does truely sometimes astound me though how people can be pro mage after Kirkwall though. You know what with the rampant blood magic, the countless abominations and the circle being a corrupt cesspool.
And what you have is personal fact, aka perspective or personal logic;not definitive nor historical fact.
Modifié par SgtSteel91, 24 décembre 2013 - 08:45 .
The Baconer wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
After all the conclusion i ultimately gained was that the place should have been anulled years before it was, hardly the message the mages intended no?
If anything, I think it implied that the Gallows itself should have burned with everyone inside, Templar and Mage.
The root of the problem seems to be that Kirkwall itself is too toxic of an environment to have its own Circle. We know that veil is weakened, especially around the Gallows (and going by what we've learned in the lore, both the mages and the Templars should have been able to pick up on this), and then the extensive imagery of slavery and suffering doesn't seem to foster obedience. This is a consequence of the Chantry squatting in buildings that Tevinter had already build, rather than making their own facilities.
The Circle itself was corrupt at its core, and while I can't say the the Rite being enacted do to Anders' actions was justifiable, had the practices of the likes of Orsino and Grace continued it would have been simply inevitable. On the other hand, under the command of Meredith we see scores of mages escaping, and simultaneous occurences of Templars either abusing their charges or fraternizing with them. On top of all of this, she is a usurper, by obstructing the process of having a new Viscount appointed from among Kirkwall's nobility, and effectively taking the throne herself through force, which would allow her incompetence to potentially affect Kirkwall on a larger scale than it already had. Overall I would say she should have been stationed at the scaffold, rather than the Knight-Commander's quarters.
The reason my Hawke sides with the Mages is simply they were innocent of the crime that Meredith was enacting the Right of Annulment for. If they were involved in the crime, that's one thing, but to kill an entire Circle of mages due to the actions of an apostate is uncalled for. The people demand blood? Then give them the blood of the one responsible.SgtSteel91 wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
It does truely sometimes astound me though how people can be pro mage after Kirkwall though. You know what with the rampant blood magic, the countless abominations and the circle being a corrupt cesspool.
And what you have is personal fact, aka perspective or personal logic;not definitive nor historical fact.
I sided with the Mages primarily because in my playthrough Bethany was in the Circle and my Hawke wasn't going to let the Templars or, god forbid, help the Templars kill his sister for a crime Anders committed.
My Hawke doesn't really care if the Circle is really corrupted or that he might be letting potentially dangerous people go, his only concern is protecting his family, no matter what the consequences are. (Think of the character Nier and how he approached protecting his sister/daughter, depending on the version of the game, and that's like how my Hawke was in Act 3).
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
The reason my Hawke sides with the Mages is simply they were innocent of the crime that Meredith was enacting the Right of Annulment for. If they were involved in the crime, that's one thing, but to kill an entire Circle of mages due to the actions of an apostate is uncalled for. The people demand blood? Then give them the blood of the one responsible.SgtSteel91 wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
It does truely sometimes astound me though how people can be pro mage after Kirkwall though. You know what with the rampant blood magic, the countless abominations and the circle being a corrupt cesspool.
And what you have is personal fact, aka perspective or personal logic;not definitive nor historical fact.
I sided with the Mages primarily because in my playthrough Bethany was in the Circle and my Hawke wasn't going to let the Templars or, god forbid, help the Templars kill his sister for a crime Anders committed.
My Hawke doesn't really care if the Circle is really corrupted or that he might be letting potentially dangerous people go, his only concern is protecting his family, no matter what the consequences are. (Think of the character Nier and how he approached protecting his sister/daughter, depending on the version of the game, and that's like how my Hawke was in Act 3).
In her defense, by that time she was completely paranoid due to her Red Lyrium sword, so her reaction would obviously not be rational. And I kind of agree with you on the "convict the Circle of the crimes they are guilty for", but rather than the whole Circle, like Anders convict only the ones responsible for the crimes. Bethany, if in the Circle, shouldn't be grouped with those like Grace since she had nothing to do with that crime, aside from being kidnapped and held hostage.Master Warder Z wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
The reason my Hawke sides with the Mages is simply they were innocent of the crime that Meredith was enacting the Right of Annulment for. If they were involved in the crime, that's one thing, but to kill an entire Circle of mages due to the actions of an apostate is uncalled for. The people demand blood? Then give them the blood of the one responsible.SgtSteel91 wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
It does truely sometimes astound me though how people can be pro mage after Kirkwall though. You know what with the rampant blood magic, the countless abominations and the circle being a corrupt cesspool.
And what you have is personal fact, aka perspective or personal logic;not definitive nor historical fact.
I sided with the Mages primarily because in my playthrough Bethany was in the Circle and my Hawke wasn't going to let the Templars or, god forbid, help the Templars kill his sister for a crime Anders committed.
My Hawke doesn't really care if the Circle is really corrupted or that he might be letting potentially dangerous people go, his only concern is protecting his family, no matter what the consequences are. (Think of the character Nier and how he approached protecting his sister/daughter, depending on the version of the game, and that's like how my Hawke was in Act 3).
I know right?
Friggin convict the circle of the hundreds of crimes it actually commited, not the one a lone nut did.
Its one of the few things i sort of draw a blank at to be honest...
Admittedly Meridith could have been planning to pin the entire destruction of the chantry and the surrounding area on the circle mages as soon as the event occured, she merely could have stated that to the champion to win their support.
Master Warder Z wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
The reason my Hawke sides with the Mages is simply they were innocent of the crime that Meredith was enacting the Right of Annulment for. If they were involved in the crime, that's one thing, but to kill an entire Circle of mages due to the actions of an apostate is uncalled for. The people demand blood? Then give them the blood of the one responsible.SgtSteel91 wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
It does truely sometimes astound me though how people can be pro mage after Kirkwall though. You know what with the rampant blood magic, the countless abominations and the circle being a corrupt cesspool.
And what you have is personal fact, aka perspective or personal logic;not definitive nor historical fact.
I sided with the Mages primarily because in my playthrough Bethany was in the Circle and my Hawke wasn't going to let the Templars or, god forbid, help the Templars kill his sister for a crime Anders committed.
My Hawke doesn't really care if the Circle is really corrupted or that he might be letting potentially dangerous people go, his only concern is protecting his family, no matter what the consequences are. (Think of the character Nier and how he approached protecting his sister/daughter, depending on the version of the game, and that's like how my Hawke was in Act 3).
I know right?
Friggin convict the circle of the hundreds of crimes it actually commited, not the one a lone nut did.
Its one of the few things i sort of draw a blank at to be honest...
Admittedly Meridith could have been planning to pin the entire destruction of the chantry and the surrounding area on the circle mages as soon as the event occured, she merely could have stated that to the champion to win their support.
Master Warder Z wrote...
]Also in the single situation i can recall where mages successfully escaped the gallows this occured due to the mage underground directly assaulting the circle, as in doing a prision break as in declaring war on the circle and templars.
And on the note abusing Mages, i would likely have a differing opinion of what is proper treatment of an escaped apostate then a circle mage but i suppose some situations where uncalled but again in my eye the situation warrented the reactions given in nearly ever circumstance.
She wasn't a coddler or a peace maker but she wasn't presented a situation where she could become one anyway, she was presented with a circle that was all but at war with their role by the time she was appointed to her position regardless.
Master Warder Z wrote...
I know right?
Friggin convict the circle of the hundreds of crimes it actually commited, not the one a lone nut did.
Its one of the few things i sort of draw a blank at to be honest...
Admittedly Meridith could have been planning to pin the entire destruction of the chantry and the surrounding area on the circle mages as soon as the event occured, she merely could have stated that to the champion to win their support.
Modifié par SgtSteel91, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:26 .
SgtSteel91 wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
I know right?
Friggin convict the circle of the hundreds of crimes it actually commited, not the one a lone nut did.
Its one of the few things i sort of draw a blank at to be honest...
Admittedly Meridith could have been planning to pin the entire destruction of the chantry and the surrounding area on the circle mages as soon as the event occured, she merely could have stated that to the champion to win their support.
If Meridith threw in a pardon for Bethany, sparing her from being killed during the Annulment and made tranquil after the Annulment, then my Hawke would have considered siding with her.
ianvillan wrote...
I don't think Bethany would like you helping Meredith the murder the innocent children in exchange for her life.
::sigh:: I am beginning to wonder why I even bother...DKJaigen wrote...
Once again you give no motive why a demon would be interrested in mage. your arguments are worthless . .Take the desire demon that corrupted the templar inside the circle and you understand the motive for the demons is their desire to experience human emotions and drive . thats in abundance in both normal people and mages. and thats what protected the tranquil as they have no emotions or desires.
Before i take any of your arguments seriously you need to provide me at least a theory why demons would be interrested to mages besides their connection to the fade because that proves nothing.
Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 24 décembre 2013 - 11:35 .
ianvillan wrote...
SgtSteel91 wrote...
Master Warder Z wrote...
I know right?
Friggin convict the circle of the hundreds of crimes it actually commited, not the one a lone nut did.
Its one of the few things i sort of draw a blank at to be honest...
Admittedly Meridith could have been planning to pin the entire destruction of the chantry and the surrounding area on the circle mages as soon as the event occured, she merely could have stated that to the champion to win their support.
If Meridith threw in a pardon for Bethany, sparing her from being killed during the Annulment and made tranquil after the Annulment, then my Hawke would have considered siding with her.
I don't think Bethany would like you helping Meredith the murder the innocent children in exchange for her life.
Retour en haut