4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

@Lord Raijin: Absolutely.

The Templars need a lot of re-organization, and any Templar capable of being possessed or controlled, is a failure as well.

[The Hierophant]

A demon randomly possessing the body of a child/adolescent girl with no magical or martial training who then killed 70 villagers in an unknown timeframe, versus 47 knights who had training and prep along with 4 months to rack up their kill count.

There's something off with that comparison?

[dragonflight288]

The Hierophant wrote...

A demon randomly possessing the body of a child/adolescent girl with no magical or martial training who then killed 70 villagers in an unknown timeframe, versus 47 knights who had training and prep along with 4 months to rack up their kill count.

There's something off with that comparison?

But at the point the untrained girl is possessed, it's the mind, power and ability of the demon doing the killing. Not the girl. 

[The Hierophant]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

A demon randomly possessing the body of a child/adolescent girl with no magical or martial training who then killed 70 villagers in an unknown timeframe, versus 47 knights who had training and prep along with 4 months to rack up their kill count.

There's something off with that comparison?

But at the point the untrained girl is possessed, it's the mind, power and ability of the demon doing the killing. Not the girl. 

You still have an adolescent girl or child with no martial training who tranformed into a killing machine. The comparison is still fubar as no exact timeframe was given along with the circumstances being completely different.

[Hazegurl]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

I wouldn't just have a single Harrowing - I'd have a Harrowing required at every rank of the mage political ladder - a Harrowing when you even begin to learn violent spells - and then a Harrow every few years. 

I agree, it's obvious that mages needed more than one Harrowing in their lifetime. Why the Chantry thought that one was enough is beyond me considering how many seem to succumb to their power.

What about the Templars who are stationed in the Circle? Do you think they should have to undergo simular training like the Harrowing? The fact that so many of them back in Circle Tower in Feralden were under the influence of demons and have thus lost their own will only proves that they should focus the quality on their own training rather than shove mages into a situation to see if they can resist demonic possession every so often.

If you're going to be dealing strictly with mages then you should be given rigorous and agressive form of test to see if you can resist the influence of demons, and so many of them had failed this at a great lost.

If you're going to treat the Circle as a prison (as it was prior to Kirkwall) and the mages are prisoners then you must be prepaired for the worst.

I agree, as a matter of fact I think the Templars need more than just a "demon check" they also need to be educated on compassion, when it is needed and when too much of it can be a detriment to their own safety and the safety of their comrades. They also need some sort of help with lyrium addiction.

[Star fury]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The codex says, that if a Greater Pride Demon were ever to cross the Veil, then the entire world would be in peril.

Don't worry, PC will defeat your Greater Pride Demon with or without a party.

[Star fury]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd argue an army of demons is worse than an army of darkspawn. Smarter and more powerful individually.

Bioware writers think that too, so they made it a main plot of DA3. Probably they should really stick to the black and white morality. Their first attempt to make the grey morality in DA2 failed miserably.

Modifié par Star fury, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:11 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
70 people is nothing considering it killed people without training or equipment. during the hundred year war 47 british knights and men at arms managed to sack over 50 villages killing several thousand perhaps even ten thousand peasants in a timeframe of 4 months . that abomination isnt impressing me. 

A single medieval Knight would be overrun by 70 peasants. It wouldn't even be a contest.

If the knight is on foot and in the open perhaps. on horseback peasants really dont have a chance. how do you think the medieval nobility kept their people in line despite that the peasants consisted of nearly 95% of the people?

  
Even if he was on a steed a single knight wouldn't be able to kill 70 peasants.... The medieval knights kept the peasants supressed through a mixture of poverty, church and the fact that the knight often had Men-at-Arms who were more than willing to do his bidding. Including killing any upstart peasants.
However a single knight, even on a steed, would be chopped to pieces by an angry mob of 70 peasants.

DKJaigen wrote...

If a Greater Pride
Demon would indeed threaten the entire world, then it would by that very
measure be a threat just as great as the Darkspawn. Perhaps the threat
posed is wholely by itself, in which case it would be almsot
unimaginably powerful. Perhaps the threat emanates from the amount fo
other demosn it would summon, who would in turn summon more demons.
Also remember that Pride Demons aren't even the most powerful demons out there...

then the templars are ****ing idiots for putting the mages in one spot. 

They are putting all the amges together, where they can keep an eye on them, and can hope to contain any situation. Had mages been running willy nilly around the globe, thena  Greater Pride Demon would most certainly become an even greater threat, since there wouldn't have been any initial resposne to its creation.

DKJaigen wrote...

It is a book written by Templars for Templars, regarding the threats
they pose while doing their duty....... It wouldn't be prudent to
exagerate the threat of an Abomination in such a manual.

Templars for the most part are ignorant idiots with no real understanding of magic. also when was the last time a greater pride demon has shown up? how CAN the templars know its power? I how can the templars even fight the damn thing if they failed so epicly at the fereldan tower?

Templars have more understanding of magic than some mages it would seem. Especially considering that they keep vast libraries with magical tomes, which they keep from mages, but have acces to themseles. However, your hatred of Templars are well known, so I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise that you want them painted as incompetent.
The only failure the Templars suffered in Ferelden, was the failure to save the mages' lives. They contained the situation perfectly, and it had no chance of escalating. The situation was under control, but things were moving slowly. The Right was on its way, and it would only be a matter of time before the Templars could purge the tower.
And the part about a Greater Pride Demon is written by a First Enchanter, not the Templars.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Star fury wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The codex says, that if a Greater Pride Demon were ever to cross the Veil, then the entire world would be in peril.

Don't worry, PC will defeat your Greater Pride Demon with or without a party.

Oh without a doubt. PCs have already defeated the Archdemon, another threat to the entirety of Thedas, alone and naked. But that is what PCs exists for. To go up against impossible odds and live. It is part of the job of being a Hero after all.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...
Their is a big difference between an abomnation that that rampages between unarmded and untrained peasants or an abomination that rampages between a warrior society like the dalish  . It seems that the dalish do not consider the abominations much a of a  danger. Also lore contradicts the power of abominations merediths own sister only managed to kill a few dozen peasants (something a medieval knight can easily replicate) beforea few trained templars cut them down.

Haha..70 people are nothing? Because clearly no one in that village was armed. Note Meredth said 70 people. No pesants. and it was lucky there were tempalrs neaby to stop it.
No, a medieval knight cannot easily kill 70 poeple, even if they are all unarmed. I don't know where yo got that silly idea.

And if an abomination can destroy entire squads of tempalrs, I don't see the Dalish having good chances.If it's a big clan, I guess. Otherwise, it will suffer the quiet fate of a clan that mysteriously dissapeared (also mentioned in the codex). There are very few things that can take out an entire dalish clan (their own crazed Keepers nonwithstanding).

[dragonflight288]

The Hierophant wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

A demon randomly possessing the body of a child/adolescent girl with no magical or martial training who then killed 70 villagers in an unknown timeframe, versus 47 knights who had training and prep along with 4 months to rack up their kill count.

There's something off with that comparison?

But at the point the untrained girl is possessed, it's the mind, power and ability of the demon doing the killing. Not the girl. 

You still have an adolescent girl or child with no martial training who tranformed into a killing machine. The comparison is still fubar as no exact timeframe was given along with the circumstances being completely different.

Which is why I believe all mages should be trained, but I see no reason why fully trained mages cannot have and raise their own children when we have the Hawkes as examples of a trained mage raising apostate children (or child if Bethany is the only mage) and those children taught and trained as they need.

People may say that the Hawke family may not count because the protagonist is in it and has plot armor, but they are also the only family in the lore where a mage lived outside the circle, had mage children, raised them and taught them magic, and his children never becoming abominations. I can's say they never become blood mages because I sometimes play a blood mage Hawke.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Wilhelm also raised his child away from the Circle. He died under mysterious circumstances, and his grandaughter was almost (or actually was) possessed.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wilhelm also raised his child away from the Circle. He died under mysterious circumstances, and his grandaughter was almost (or actually was) possessed.

There's no evidence that Amalia is a mage though. There was a demon sealed in the basement. Wilhelm's son refused to go down there because he was absolutely terrified of what his father may have put up. Kitty *snirk, silly name for a demon* was desperate to get out, and Amalia was the first person in decades she came in contact with.

Demons usually possess the first thing they come in contact with, but she couldn't possess Amalia directly because she would still be sealed in.

It's just as likely she wanted to possess the first living person she came in contact with after 3 decades.

EDIT: This doesn't take away my argument that mages need to be trained, and a trained mage can raise their children if they teach their mage-children the dangers of magic.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:03 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Wether or not she was a mage, doesn't change the fact that she was almost possessed, by a demon summoned by her grandfather.

[The Hierophant]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

A demon randomly possessing the body of a child/adolescent girl with no magical or martial training who then killed 70 villagers in an unknown timeframe, versus 47 knights who had training and prep along with 4 months to rack up their kill count.

There's something off with that comparison?

But at the point the untrained girl is possessed, it's the mind, power and ability of the demon doing the killing. Not the girl. 

You still have an adolescent girl or child with no martial training who tranformed into a killing machine. The comparison is still fubar as no exact timeframe was given along with the circumstances being completely different.

Which is why I believe all mages should be trained, but I see no reason why fully trained mages cannot have and raise their own children when we have the Hawkes as examples of a trained mage raising apostate children (or child if Bethany is the only mage) and those children taught and trained as they need.

People may say that the Hawke family may not count because the protagonist is in it and has plot armor, but they are also the only family in the lore where a mage lived outside the circle, had mage children, raised them and taught them magic, and his children never becoming abominations. I can's say they never become blood mages because I sometimes play a blood mage Hawke.

The only issue i see with this is that not every mage parent will be competent like Malcolm,

I think the training should be left up to the circle (bording school) while the parents would still be able to see and raise their kids. The only problem with this is that it increases the chances of negative influences from a mage's family or friends, like them being pressured into misusing their powers for said family's or friend's benefit.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:31 .

[Dave of Canada]

Parents can already visit their children, most choose not to.

[The Hierophant]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Parents can already visit their children, most choose not to.

They're either too poor to make the trip or they despise their children like Jowan's mom, but for Jowan's case i have a suspicion that his mom hates him for being a colossal screw up.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:53 .

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wether or not she was a mage, doesn't change the fact that she was almost possessed, by a demon summoned by her grandfather.

And said demons was successfully sealed away until Amalia idiotically ran down there (and her father cowardly refused to go after her.)

Personally I think he should've just killed the demon the moment he figured it was too dangerous to continue studying, as per his journal.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wether or not she was a mage, doesn't change the fact that she was almost possessed, by a demon summoned by her grandfather.

And said demons was successfully sealed away until Amalia idiotically ran down there (and her father cowardly refused to go after her.)

Personally I think he should've just killed the demon the moment he figured it was too dangerous to continue studying, as per his journal.

Nevertheless. Danger was brought on his family, as a direct result of him being a mage.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wether or not she was a mage, doesn't change the fact that she was almost possessed, by a demon summoned by her grandfather.

And said demons was successfully sealed away until Amalia idiotically ran down there (and her father cowardly refused to go after her.)

Personally I think he should've just killed the demon the moment he figured it was too dangerous to continue studying, as per his journal.

Nevertheless. Danger was brought on his family, as a direct result of him being a mage.

Being just a dumb person is perhaps better.

Modifié par eluvianix, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:44 .

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wether or not she was a mage, doesn't change the fact that she was almost possessed, by a demon summoned by her grandfather.

And said demons was successfully sealed away until Amalia idiotically ran down there (and her father cowardly refused to go after her.)

Personally I think he should've just killed the demon the moment he figured it was too dangerous to continue studying, as per his journal.

Nevertheless. Danger was brought on his family, as a direct result of him being a mage.

Not really. Danger was brought upon his family as a direct result of him being an idiot.

[Senya]

And idiocy and magic doesn't mix well.

Modifié par almostinsane99, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:44 .

[dragonflight288]

The Hierophant wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

A demon randomly possessing the body of a child/adolescent girl with no magical or martial training who then killed 70 villagers in an unknown timeframe, versus 47 knights who had training and prep along with 4 months to rack up their kill count.

There's something off with that comparison?

But at the point the untrained girl is possessed, it's the mind, power and ability of the demon doing the killing. Not the girl. 

You still have an adolescent girl or child with no martial training who tranformed into a killing machine. The comparison is still fubar as no exact timeframe was given along with the circumstances being completely different.

Which is why I believe all mages should be trained, but I see no reason why fully trained mages cannot have and raise their own children when we have the Hawkes as examples of a trained mage raising apostate children (or child if Bethany is the only mage) and those children taught and trained as they need.

People may say that the Hawke family may not count because the protagonist is in it and has plot armor, but they are also the only family in the lore where a mage lived outside the circle, had mage children, raised them and taught them magic, and his children never becoming abominations. I can's say they never become blood mages because I sometimes play a blood mage Hawke.

The only issue i see with this is that not every mage parent will be competent like Malcolm,

I think the training should be left up to the circle (bording school) while the parents would still be able to see and raise their kids. The only problem with this is that it increases the chances of negative influences from a mage's family or friends, like them being pressured into misusing their powers for said family's or friend's benefit.

Most kids idea of misusing power is sneaking a cookie from the cookie jar, but your point still has some merit to it.

Problem is, you can't really pressure an untrained mage to use his power, something any trained mage would be able to recognize.

I guess we need a larger sample size beyond the Hawke's to say for sure if my idea has merit or not.

Can't say it's a good or bad idea until it's been practiced (likely in a circle where templars can observe and be prepared for potential abominations) and data has been gahered on how often what happens.