4643 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

You are so goddamn full of bull**** that it is unbelievable.... Who in the name of **** else would it have been, that fought the demons in the city? The City Guard are not equiped for such matters, so while they probably did fight some demons, it is obious that it is the Templars who brought order back to Kirkwall after the uprising. You obvious bias is so friggin aweful, that you can't even admit that the Templars actually cleaned up the mess some mages created? Pathetic. Just ****ing pathetic...

The city guard is protecting innocents, the templars are willingly dancing to the mad tune of red lyrium and its avatar. And it was a mess the templars set up and allowed to happen, by putting a Circle in Kirkwall to begin with, then forcing horrible conditions on its prisoners (a theme echoed in The Last Straw directly, when the templars are seen outright creating an abomination), and then slaughtering mages enough that it tears the Veil further to allow more demons through. This is not the mess of mages, it's in part Anders and the rest templars.

As I said... Pathetic...

[Lord Raijin]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Anders can murder an innocent mage in cold blood, then creeps into her funeral, and then tries to use her death for his own purposes.

He feels terrible about what happen, and wants to pay his respects, and do something to help out. What is wrong with that?

If Anders was a true psychopath, and a terrorist he would shrug it off like if it was nothing.

Here's the dialogue between Anders and Aveline.

Anders: Can I ask you something, Aveline?
Aveline: I cannot look the other way when mages break the law--
Anders: That's not what I was going to ask.
Anders: There's a girl. A mage apprentice. She...was murdered in the Gallows recently. Have you heard anything of it?
Aveline: You mean the girl you killed.
Anders: Yes. I'd like to... attend the funeral. Do something. (Showing remorse)
Aveline: The official templar report says she was killed by a demon of unknown origin.
Aveline: Let her family mourn in peace.

[Reaverwind]

errant_knight wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

In the comics Alistair says he started taking Lyrium "again", so that he could maintain his Templar abilities.

Wait...what?!  That was a major plot point about which there was a fair amount of discussion. If a continuity issue has occurred, they pretty much have to go with the game rather than the comic, don't they?

I've read several posts that the devs always intended lyrium usage and addiction to go along with being a templar, but apparently had trouble implementing it as a game mechanic without unduly penalizing the player. However, it would seem that they're finding some way of implementing it in DA:I.

[errant_knight]

Damnit, I hate massive retcons. You go along for years piecing the things you know from tidbits of information then, BAM! Something that has really big implications if just different and a big chunk of what you knew is gone.

So the effing King of Ferelden is addicted to Lyrium? And therefore potentially at the mercy of the Chantry to keep him supplied?

[Dean_the_Young]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Anders can murder an innocent mage in cold blood, then creeps into her funeral, and then tries to use her death for his own purposes.

He feels terrible about what happen, and wants to pay his respects, and do something to help out. What is wrong with that?

If Anders was a true psychopath, and a terrorist he would shrug it off like if it was nothing.

...you haven't dealt with psychopaths or terrorists, have you? 'Cause what you just listed is a great big fat No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Psychopaths can feel emotions, and terrorists can feel guilt. Remorse isn't a disqualifier for evil or villainy, so if you intend to argue against those labels you're going to need a much better defense.

[Reaverwind]

errant_knight wrote...

Damnit, I hate massive retcons. You go along for years piecing the things you know from tidbits of information then, BAM! Something that has really big implications if just different and a big chunk of what you knew is gone.

So the effing King of Ferelden is addicted to Lyrium? And therefore potentially at the mercy of the Chantry to keep him supplied?

He's a warden. I imagine the Wardens can easily get it directly from the Dwarves, especially after the events of DA:O and Awakening.

[Br3admax]

errant_knight wrote...

Damnit, I hate massive retcons. You go along for years piecing the things you know from tidbits of information then, BAM! Something that has really big implications if just different and a big chunk of what you knew is gone.

So the effing King of Ferelden is addicted to Lyrium? And therefore potentially at the mercy of the Chantry to keep him supplied?

The Grey Wardens have lyrium, for the Joining, as well. He most likely gets it from them.

Modifié par Br3ad, 26 octobre 2013 - 04:58 .

[dragonflight288]

errant_knight wrote...

Damnit, I hate massive retcons. You go along for years piecing the things you know from tidbits of information then, BAM! Something that has really big implications if just different and a big chunk of what you knew is gone.

So the effing King of Ferelden is addicted to Lyrium? And therefore potentially at the mercy of the Chantry to keep him supplied?

He's also the ruling monarch of the closest country to Orzammar. He can likely arrange a trade agreement with the dwarves.

The comics speak of him only "restarting" to take lyrium, so he may not actually be addicted.

[errant_knight]

Good point! I should have thought of that, but I had a little too much fun last night, lol. Better drink more coffee...

[BlueMagitek]

We don't know how quickly lyrium addiction becomes.

I mean, considering how a lot of the party may end up consuming vast amounts of lyrium potions and aren't any worse for wear (not even a banter joke!), I think it might take a long period of time.

Red Lyrium seems to be super-addicting though.

[Br3admax]

BlueMagitek wrote...

We don't know how quickly lyrium addiction becomes.

I mean, considering how a lot of the party may end up consuming vast amounts of lyrium potions and aren't any worse for wear (not even a banter joke!), I think it might take a long period of time.

Red Lyrium seems to be super-addicting though.

Total gameplay/lore segregation. 

[Hellion Rex]

BlueMagitek wrote...

We don't know how quickly lyrium addiction becomes.

I mean, considering how a lot of the party may end up consuming vast amounts of lyrium potions and aren't any worse for wear (not even a banter joke!), I think it might take a long period of time.

Red Lyrium seems to be super-addicting though.

I think the lyrium that templars consume is different than the kind found in a potion. Because mages are the only ones who can use lyrium potions in the games and they don't seem to receive any templar powers.

Modifié par eluvianix, 26 octobre 2013 - 05:20 .

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

We don't know how quickly lyrium addiction becomes.

I mean, considering how a lot of the party may end up consuming vast amounts of lyrium potions and aren't any worse for wear (not even a banter joke!), I think it might take a long period of time.

Red Lyrium seems to be super-addicting though.

I think the lyrium that templars consume is different than the kind found in a potion. Because mages are the only ones who can use lyrium potions in the games.

Also a gameplay/lore segregation, espcially considering that Templars were at one time meant to take potions, although weak as this is cut content, and that the same potions are given to a Templar for a mage board quest. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

The city guard is protecting innocents, the templars are willingly dancing to the mad tune of red lyrium and its avatar. And it was a mess the templars set up and allowed to happen, by putting a Circle in Kirkwall to begin with, then forcing horrible conditions on its prisoners (a theme echoed in The Last Straw directly, when the templars are seen outright creating an abomination), and then slaughtering mages enough that it tears the Veil further to allow more demons through. This is not the mess of mages, it's in part Anders and the rest templars.

Of course mages are not to blame. Accoriding to you, they are NEVER to blame.
They are always pushed, forced, coerced or tricked.
And of course, they are the only ones who are allowed to play that card.

We can never have the mundanes or the temaplrs having thier had forced, right Xil? <_<

That's all templars mages. It's always been all templars mages.

I fixed it for you.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 26 octobre 2013 - 05:25 .

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The city guard is protecting innocents, the templars are willingly dancing to the mad tune of red lyrium and its avatar. And it was a mess the templars set up and allowed to happen, by putting a Circle in Kirkwall to begin with, then forcing horrible conditions on its prisoners (a theme echoed in The Last Straw directly, when the templars are seen outright creating an abomination), and then slaughtering mages enough that it tears the Veil further to allow more demons through. This is not the mess of mages, it's in part Anders and the rest templars.

Of course mages are not to blame. Accoriding to you, they are NEVER to blame.
They are always pushed, forced, coerced or tricked.
And of course, they are the only ones who are allowed to play that card.

We can never have the mundanes or the temaplrs having thier had forced, right Xil? <_<

That's all templars mages. It's always been all templars mages.

I fixed it for you.

That's completely untrue. If the templars had done their jobs right and some had not abused their powers, we wouldn't be in this war right now. 

Modifié par eluvianix, 26 octobre 2013 - 05:29 .

[Hellion Rex]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Its why I enjoy these arguments.

>Blame everything on the templars
>Stick your fingers in your ears and shout lalalala whenever someone points out any faults with Anders or the mages

Don't pretend like you guys do not do the same things. Mages hardly have a monopoly on stubbornness.

[Hellion Rex]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Obviously.

But I've yet to see the insanity like saying Anders never killed a single innocent person when he destroyed the chantry

I think he did to be honest. In my own opinion, I do think there were people in that Chantry. And there were more than likely people in the nearby area around the Chantry who more than likely died as well, from either the two falling statues outside or from being so close to the blast. There you go. A pro-mage who think Anders killed some innocent people in the blast. 

[Ianamus]

I really can't stand Anders. He's the only character in the Dragon Age series that I outright hate. He's just so selfish and self-absorbed. The more you listen to him the less it seems to be about mages and the more it seems to be about him- to the point where you can practically substitute "mages" for "me".

I feel for the templars, as individuals. People sympathise with the mages, and so do I, but the average templar really is just a person whose taken the job of protecting people from abominations and rogue mages- and also protects the mages themselves. Unlike Mages they are even forced into the role, they choose it.

Modifié par EJ107, 26 octobre 2013 - 05:38 .

[Hellion Rex]

EJ107 wrote...

I really can't stand Anders. He's the only character in the Dragon Age series that I outright hate. He's just so selfish and self-absorbed. The more you listen to him the less it seems to be about mages and the more it seems to be about him- to the point where you can practically substitute "mages" for "me".

I feel for the templars, as individuals. People sympathise with the mages, and so do I, but the average templar really is just a person whose taken the job of protecting people from abominations and rogue mages- and also protects the mages themselves. Unlike Mages they are even forced into the role, they choose it.

And to be honest, we don't get a glimpse of the average templar enough. I would love to see more of that in DAI. I would certainly like that much more than if we got a bunch of zealots again. Minus the Red Templars of course. They cray-cray.

Modifié par eluvianix, 26 octobre 2013 - 05:40 .

[HiroVoid]

I always just find it weird saying he never killed an innocent when his entire plan was to have Meredith enact the rite of annullment on the circle forcing the mages into a 'kill or be killed' scenario knowing Meredith was a wild dog that should have been deposed of a long time ago.

[Lord Raijin]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
...you haven't dealt with psychopaths or terrorists, have you? 'Cause what you just listed is a great big fat No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Psychopaths can feel emotions, and terrorists can feel guilt. Remorse isn't a disqualifier for evil or villainy, so if you intend to argue against those labels you're going to need a much better defense.

I haven't personally dealth with psychopaths or terrorists, but I've studied a lot about them, and no they do not show emotions and feel guilty. Being remorseful is not in their vocabulary. Who taught you this fallacy? Do you think John Wayne Gacy felt guilty or remorseful when he murdered a bunch of children right inside of his own home, and used the basement as his own personal cemetery? The irony is that he use to invite people over for parties, and even invited the police over to which one smelt the decomposing bodies. His excuse was that it was urine from his dogs. It was his lack of emotions, lack of feeling guilty is what made him get caught and get convicted of the murders. It was his lack remorseful is what encouraged the jury to agree with the death penelty as a punishment.

In a psychological POV Anders definitely shows signs of mental health disorder, but he is NOT by any standards a psychopath. He blew up the Chantry at night when the Chantry was closed. Nobody but a few templars and the Grand Cleric was inside at the time of the explosion.

[Hellion Rex]

HiroVoid wrote...

I always just find it weird saying he never killed an innocent when his entire plan was to have Meredith enact the rite of annullment on the circle forcing the mages into a 'kill or be killed' scenario knowing Meredith was a wild dog that should have been deposed of a long time ago.

I don't think he necessarily planned for an actual Right of Annulment, per say. But yes, you do bring up a good point.