4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Raijin]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Now you're just being silly. How can Anders be guilty of genocide when hes fighting for the freeom of his comrades whos being held prisoners in the gallows?

Probably because he forced them to fight and die when most of them wanted no part of it.

Can you give me one sane mage who likes being forced to live in the Circle where a bunch of templars stares at them all day and all night? Can you give me a name one 1 mage who likes having her child taken away from her by the templars and given to the Chantry out of punishment for wanting to start a family of their own?

The chantry put all of this upon themselves for abusing mages for so long. To treat them as caddle, and not as human beings or Elves.

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Now you're just being silly. How can Anders be guilty of genocide when hes fighting for the freeom of his comrades whos being held prisoners in the gallows?

Probably because he forced them to fight and die when most of them wanted no part of it.

It was going to come to a head anyway as the templars abused their power over the mages.Most were afraid to fight back until Anders provided the match for the powder keg.

And either way, so many were slain...on both sides. 

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd argue Anders is just as guilty of genocide as Meredith. Since he directly provoked her into committing it.

Now you're just being silly. How can Anders be guilty of genocide when hes fighting for the freeom of his comrades whos being held prisoners in the gallows?

Meredith is tyrant and Elthina allowed this behavior to go on as long as it did.

Not everyone is going to put up with her crap, and wont bow down... and Anders proved it by his actions.

Anders is guilty, in the sense that he forced Meredith's hand, whether justified or not, leading into this war.

Meredith was already pushing for the ROA before Anders pulled his little stunt so she would have done the same thing regardless.

But she had been shut down previously by both the Divine and Elthina. Although, I still don't get why Justinia denied her, even though Leliana and Elthina mentioned the Divine considering an Exalted March...

She would have still found a way to do the ROA regardless of Elthina being alive.Meredith would have probaly accused her of being controlled by blood magic and usurp the Grand  Cleric's authority.

Modifié par cjones91, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:09 .

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Now you're just being silly. How can Anders be guilty of genocide when hes fighting for the freeom of his comrades whos being held prisoners in the gallows?

Probably because he forced them to fight and die when most of them wanted no part of it.

Can you give me one sane mage who likes being forced to live in the Circle where a bunch of templars stares at them all day and all night? Can you give me a name one 1 mage who likes having her child taken away from her by the templars and given to the Chantry out of punishment for wanting to start a family of their own?

The chantry put all of this upon themselves for abusing mages for so long. To treat them as caddle, and not as human beings or Elves.

Wynne. Irving.

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything. 

[Br3admax]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Can you give me one sane mage who likes being forced to live in the Circle where a bunch of templars stares at them all day and all night?

Bethany and Wynne for starters.

Pretty much all of them seem fine to me. Very few of them actually seem discontent with it. Finn also. 

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd argue Anders is just as guilty of genocide as Meredith. Since he directly provoked her into committing it.

Now you're just being silly. How can Anders be guilty of genocide when hes fighting for the freeom of his comrades whos being held prisoners in the gallows?

Meredith is tyrant and Elthina allowed this behavior to go on as long as it did.

Not everyone is going to put up with her crap, and wont bow down... and Anders proved it by his actions.

Anders is guilty, in the sense that he forced Meredith's hand, whether justified or not, leading into this war.

Meredith was already pushing for the ROA before Anders pulled his little stunt so she would have done the same thing regardless.

But she had been shut down previously by both the Divine and Elthina. Although, I still don't get why Justinia denied her, even though Leliana and Elthina mentioned the Divine considering an Exalted March...

She would have still found a way to do the ROA regardless of Elthina being alive.Meredith would have probaly accused her of being controlled by blood magic and usurp the Grad  Cleric's authority.

We can play the what if game all day, but I get your point. I still don't necessarily agree, but I do understand what you are standing.

At the end of the day, those events played the way that they did, and we now have a war to deal with.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

So killing innocent people, and forcing mages who wanted no part in a war or fighting period to die is better than assassinating Meredith alone?

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything. 

Extremist support? Fear for the future of humanity? My god, get off your high horse man.

[AresKeith]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd argue Anders is just as guilty of genocide as Meredith. Since he directly provoked her into committing it.

Now you're just being silly. How can Anders be guilty of genocide when hes fighting for the freeom of his comrades whos being held prisoners in the gallows?

Meredith is tyrant and Elthina allowed this behavior to go on as long as it did.

Not everyone is going to put up with her crap, and wont bow down... and Anders proved it by his actions.

Anders is guilty, in the sense that he forced Meredith's hand, whether justified or not, leading into this war.

Meredith was already pushing for the ROA before Anders pulled his little stunt so she would have done the same thing regardless.

But she had been shut down previously by both the Divine and Elthina. Although, I still don't get why Justinia denied her, even though Leliana and Elthina mentioned the Divine considering an Exalted March...

That's because even though Justinia was considering it, she odesn't want there to be conflict with the Mages

Or bad writing

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Now you're just being silly. How can Anders be guilty of genocide when hes fighting for the freeom of his comrades whos being held prisoners in the gallows?

Probably because he forced them to fight and die when most of them wanted no part of it.

Can you give me one sane mage who likes being forced to live in the Circle where a bunch of templars stares at them all day and all night? Can you give me a name one 1 mage who likes having her child taken away from her by the templars and given to the Chantry out of punishment for wanting to start a family of their own?

The chantry put all of this upon themselves for abusing mages for so long. To treat them as caddle, and not as human beings or Elves.

Wynne. Irving.

Irving actually disliked how the Chantry treats them and would not hesitate to teach them a lesson by setting up Lily.

[Hellion Rex]

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

So killing innocent people, and forcing mages who wanted no part in a war or fighting period to die is better than assassinating Meredith alone?

Considering how Meredith's office is deep in the Gallows, plus she is a damned strong templar, how in the world could he have assassinated her?

[Hellion Rex]

AresKeith wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd argue Anders is just as guilty of genocide as Meredith. Since he directly provoked her into committing it.

Now you're just being silly. How can Anders be guilty of genocide when hes fighting for the freeom of his comrades whos being held prisoners in the gallows?

Meredith is tyrant and Elthina allowed this behavior to go on as long as it did.

Not everyone is going to put up with her crap, and wont bow down... and Anders proved it by his actions.

Anders is guilty, in the sense that he forced Meredith's hand, whether justified or not, leading into this war.

Meredith was already pushing for the ROA before Anders pulled his little stunt so she would have done the same thing regardless.

But she had been shut down previously by both the Divine and Elthina. Although, I still don't get why Justinia denied her, even though Leliana and Elthina mentioned the Divine considering an Exalted March...

That's because even though Justinia was considering it, she odesn't want there to be conflict with the Mages

Or bad writing

When in doubt, blame the writing.

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything. 

Extremist support? Fear for the future of humanity? My god, get off your high horse man.

What high horse? Should I be supporting blowing up buildings because it will happen eventually? And yes saying, "Anders stands up for freedom, let's blow up churches," is extremist support. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:13 .

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything. 

Except that you've supported genocide yourself multiple times and justified it by denying the victims personhood which, historically, has been a vastly larger problem for humanity than loners with bombs.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything. 

Except that you've supported genocide yourself multiple times and justified it by denying the victims personhood which, historically, has been a vastly larger problem for humanity than loners with bombs.

Amen.

[Hellion Rex]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Except that you've supported genocide yourself multiple times and justified it by denying the victims personhood which, historically, has been a vastly larger problem for humanity than loners with bombs.

You do this too

Only of the bad templars. The rest are good to go. We just need to restructure the Templar Order, primarily away from Chantry influence.

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

So killing innocent people, and forcing mages who wanted no part in a war or fighting period to die is better than assassinating Meredith alone?

Considering how Meredith's office is deep in the Gallows, plus she is a damned strong templar, how in the world could he have assassinated her?

By planting the bomb inside her office?

[errant_knight]

It occurs to me that indirectly, the Warden and Hawke are responsible for the whole thing as without their actions Anders would never have come into contact with Justice, Meredith would never have become corrupted by the artifact and innumerable other pieces would not have been in place to create the current situation.

That being said, no one is innocent. The Chantry ignored the fact that it was the level of desperation among the mages in the Ferelden circle tower that created fertile ground for Uldred's rebellion and failed to take any action to avoid a repeat. Anders willingly became an abomination when any person of sense could have predicted a less than ideal outcome. The mages ignore the fact that people have good reason to fear them and fail to address that in any way.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Except that you've supported genocide yourself multiple times and justified it by denying the victims personhood which, historically, has been a vastly larger problem for humanity than loners with bombs.

You do this too

You keep confusing me with other people. I've spoken against forcibly expelling humans from the Dales.

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything. 

Except that you've supported genocide yourself multiple times and justified it by denying the victims personhood which, historically, has been a vastly larger problem for humanity than loners with bombs.

Yeah, I'm not going to get into this with you agian. The geth don't simply exist. They kill and such on a species wide scale and I support destroying malfunctioning machinary. 

Anyway, I don't think cats are people. That does not mean that I want them to be exterminated. Ad hominem and ipso facto much, Xil? 

Modifié par Br3ad, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:17 .

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

So killing innocent people, and forcing mages who wanted no part in a war or fighting period to die is better than assassinating Meredith alone?

Considering how Meredith's office is deep in the Gallows, plus she is a damned strong templar, how in the world could he have assassinated her?

By planting the bomb inside her office?

How in the world would he get past so many templars? And also, since that thing was magical in nature, Meredith probably would have sensed it.

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.

Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.

No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything. 

Except that you've supported genocide yourself multiple times and justified it by denying the victims personhood which, historically, has been a vastly larger problem for humanity than loners with bombs.

Yeah, I'm not going to get into this with you agian. The geth don't simply exist. They kill and such on a species wide scale and I support destroying malfunctioning machinary. 

Anyway, I don't think cats are people. That does not mean that I want them to be exterminated. Ad hominem and ipso facto much, Xil? 

I said that you both advocated genocide and denied personhood, not that the latter automatically led to the former. It's just that you go there all by yourself. You have no grounds from which to judge me.