Guest_Morocco Mole_*
Xilizhra wrote...
You keep confusing me with other people. I've spoken against forcibly expelling humans from the Dales.
Modifié par Morocco Mole, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:19 .
He could have planted it somewhere that Meredith would'nt notice it.Also she was outside her office speaking to Hawke mutliples which could have given him the opportunity and time he needed to plant the explosive.eluvianix wrote...
How in the world would he get past so many templars? And also, since that thing was magical in nature, Meredith probably would have sensed it.cjones91 wrote...
By planting the bomb inside her office?eluvianix wrote...
Considering how Meredith's office is deep in the Gallows, plus she is a damned strong templar, how in the world could he have assassinated her?AresKeith wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.
So killing innocent people, and forcing mages who wanted no part in a war or fighting period to die is better than assassinating Meredith alone?
Anders cannot be proven to have killed a single innocent person when he blew up the Chantry, and in any case, that isn't genocide.Morocco Mole wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
You keep confusing me with other people. I've spoken against forcibly expelling humans from the Dales.
I'm actually referring to your comments about Anders not killing a single innocent person when he blew up the chantry.
Or your efforts to dehumanize any group that goes against yours really.
errant_knight wrote...
It occurs to me that indirectly, the Warden and Hawke are responsible for the whole thing as without their actions Anders would never have come into contact with Justice, Meredith would never have become corrupted by the artifact and innumerable other pieces would not have been in place to create the current situation.
That being said, no one is innocent. The Chantry ignored the fact that it was the level of desperation among the mages in the Ferelden circle tower that created fertile ground for Uldred's rebellion and failed to take any action to avoid a repeat. Anders willingly became an abomination when any person of sense could have predicted a less than ideal outcome. The mages ignore the fact that people have good reason to fear them and fail to address that in any way.
To be fair though, both sides tend to dehumanize.Morocco Mole wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
You keep confusing me with other people. I've spoken against forcibly expelling humans from the Dales.
I'm actually referring to your comments about Anders not killing a single innocent person when he blew up the chantry.
Or your efforts to dehumanize any group that goes against yours really.
Psycopathy (more commonly known as sociopathy) is a personality disorder. It does not mean incapable of showing or feeling emotions. It is often actually a spectrum of traits and aspects, and is hardly universal in all persons or in all possible expressions in a person.Lord Raijin wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
...you haven't dealt with psychopaths or terrorists, have you? 'Cause what you just listed is a great big fat No True Scotsman Fallacy.
Psychopaths can feel emotions, and terrorists can feel guilt. Remorse isn't a disqualifier for evil or villainy, so if you intend to argue against those labels you're going to need a much better defense.
I haven't personally dealth with psychopaths or terrorists, but I've studied a lot about them, and no they do not show emotions and feel guilty.
It certainly can be. People with anti-social disorders are often socially capable in some fields while being socially incapable in others. Misanthropes, for example, can hate people to an irrational degree while empathizing with animals.Being remorseful is not in their vocabulary.
If by 'fallacy' you mean 'some common misunderstandings about personality disorders', a trained psychologist. You?Who taught you this fallacy?
Which has... absolutely nothing to do with sociopaths as a whole or sociopathy in application, any more than you are a standard of everyone else. Gacy's lack of guilt or remorse over killing children doesn't mean he could not or did not feel remorse or guilt over other issues in his life.Do you think John Wayne Gacy felt guilty or remorseful when he murdered a bunch of children right inside of his own home, and used the basement as his own personal cemetery? The irony is that he use to invite people over for parties, and even invited the police over to which one smelt the decomposing bodies. His excuse was that it was urine from his dogs. It was his lack of emotions, lack of feeling guilty is what made him get caught and get convicted of the murders. It was his lack remorseful is what encouraged the jury to agree with the death penelty as a punishment.
Well, let's compare with the Triarchic model of psychopathy.In a psychological POV Anders definitely shows signs of mental health disorder, but he is NOT by any standards a psychopath.
*Citation needed.He blew up the Chantry at night when the Chantry was closed. Nobody but a few templars and the Grand Cleric was inside at the time of the explosion.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:23 .
eluvianix wrote...
How in the world would he get past so many templars? And also, since that thing was magical in nature, Meredith probably would have sensed it.
Found guilty of perpetuating superstition and impeding social progress. Convicted, and executed.Morocco Mole wrote...
I'm actually referring to your comments about Anders not killing a single innocent person when he blew up the chantry.
eluvianix wrote...
Wynne. Irving.
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
Xilizhra wrote...
Anders cannot be proven to have killed a single innocent person when he blew up the Chantry, and in any case, that isn't genocide.
BlueMagitek wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
It occurs to me that indirectly, the Warden and Hawke are responsible for the whole thing as without their actions Anders would never have come into contact with Justice, Meredith would never have become corrupted by the artifact and innumerable other pieces would not have been in place to create the current situation.
That being said, no one is innocent. The Chantry ignored the fact that it was the level of desperation among the mages in the Ferelden circle tower that created fertile ground for Uldred's rebellion and failed to take any action to avoid a repeat. Anders willingly became an abomination when any person of sense could have predicted a less than ideal outcome. The mages ignore the fact that people have good reason to fear them and fail to address that in any way.
Eh, The Warden could be dead or have sent Anders away, so I wouldn't blame it on him.
Hawke can try to report Anders, but no one does anything about it. At least he tried? And it isn't like Hawke forged the Red Lyrium blade for Meredith. He just discovered it.
See, I don't detect any level of desperation during the CoM origin except from Jowann, who is being exposed for what he is.
We could keep arguing on this forever. At the end of the day, Anders chose to blow up the Chantry to kill the Grand Cleric. I don't think it was entirely justified, and in my own head at least, I think he killed some innocent people.AresKeith wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
How in the world would he get past so many templars? And also, since that thing was magical in nature, Meredith probably would have sensed it.
Same way he planted the bomb in the Chantry
Modifié par errant_knight, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:27 .
I don't think I've ever seen Pro Mages call templars a virus or weapons.They usually only attack the organization's tendecy to see the mages as such.eluvianix wrote...
To be fair though, both sides tend to dehumanize.Morocco Mole wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
You keep confusing me with other people. I've spoken against forcibly expelling humans from the Dales.
I'm actually referring to your comments about Anders not killing a single innocent person when he blew up the chantry.
Or your efforts to dehumanize any group that goes against yours really.
Tell me when I advocated for the killing of people before. I don't think I've ever said that is justified. And I mean real genocide. I've seen you advocate for these thing, but I've never said that I would kill a bunch of members of my own species.Xilizhra wrote...
I said that you both advocated genocide and denied personhood, not that the latter automatically led to the former. It's just that you go there all by yourself. You have no grounds from which to judge me.Br3ad wrote...
Yeah, I'm not going to get into this with you agian. The geth don't simply exist. They kill and such on a species wide scale and I support destroying malfunctioning machinary.Xilizhra wrote...
Except that you've supported genocide yourself multiple times and justified it by denying the victims personhood which, historically, has been a vastly larger problem for humanity than loners with bombs.Br3ad wrote...
No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything.Xilizhra wrote...
Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.
Anyway, I don't think cats are people. That does not mean that I want them to be exterminated. Ad hominem and ipso facto much, Xil?
I've never supported killing the quarians.Modifié par Br3ad, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:28 .
However, I do not believe it. Some are guilty and are to blame for this, but that doesn't mean that all the Chantry should share the same guilt.errant_knight wrote...
One could only consider that he didn't if one considers every member of the Chantry guilty, no matter how lowly.
That is completely biased man. And I was referring to several here who just want to annihilate Templars, period. Nobody who's on this thread right this second, but I have seen it before. Both sides can get very passionate, and sometimes very nasty.cjones91 wrote...
I don't think I've ever seen Pro Mages call templars a virus or weapons.They usually only attack the organization's tendecy to see the mages as such.eluvianix wrote...
To be fair though, both sides tend to dehumanize.Morocco Mole wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
You keep confusing me with other people. I've spoken against forcibly expelling humans from the Dales.
I'm actually referring to your comments about Anders not killing a single innocent person when he blew up the chantry.
Or your efforts to dehumanize any group that goes against yours really.
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
I don't think I've ever seen Pro Mages call templars a virus or weapons.They usually only attack the organization's tendecy to see the mages as such.
Morocco Mole wrote...
I think Dean wins my friends.
Species is irrelevant.Tell me when I advocated for the killing of people before. I don't think I've ever said that is justified. And I mean real genocide. I've seen you advocate for these thing, but I've never said that I would kill a bunch of members of my own species.
Aaaand you just committed genocide right there, shattering your entire point.If you must know, I myself have never commited genocide on anything in any medium. Sure, I've done Destroy before, yes I will kill every Reaper. I do not do that out a sense for a hypothetical war that might happen. I do that for the wat that is happening right then. I have however never myself,
"What you believe in" is the problem.But you can keep making assumptions off of what I say about what is and what is not justified, the geth dying after siding with the Reapers is justified in my eyes, for what I actually believe in.
Those rights presumably including being wiped out because other options are scary.Actually look through the forums and you'll find that I actually say that the geth shouldn't be treated like people because it is unfair to treat everyone the same when they aren't and that they deerve their own sets of rights. Go on, go look. I'll wait.
But they are guilty for fostering resentment between the templars and mages while teaching the templars that mages are to be hated.eluvianix wrote...
However, I do not believe it. Some are guilty and are to blame for this, but that doesn't mean that all the Chantry should share the same guilt.errant_knight wrote...
One could only consider that he didn't if one considers every member of the Chantry guilty, no matter how lowly.
In all honesty, I don't think, notice that I said "think", that any on this thread currently have advocated total killing of the Chantry. But I have certainly seen it before on other threads before. And personally I think those people are idiots. Killing the Chantry gets us nowhere.Morocco Mole wrote...
I don't think I've ever seen Pro Mages call templars a virus or weapons.They usually only attack the organization's tendecy to see the mages as such.
This generally goes down the route of "kill the entire chantry"
Retour en haut
