But that's only a few posts,many Pro Templars treat the mages as inhuman objects and some have even likened them to being a disease.No Pro Mage advocate I've seen had never dehumanized the templars like that.Morocco Mole wrote...
I don't think I've ever seen Pro Mages call templars a virus or weapons.They usually only attack the organization's tendecy to see the mages as such.
This generally goes down the route of "kill the entire chantry"
Modifié par cjones91, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:33 .
Not all of them are to blame though. Conversely, the Templars can the make the same argument that due to several people turning abomination, all mages should just be killed anyways. We mages sometimes do just as much to foster tensions as the templar side does.cjones91 wrote...
But they are guilty for fostering resentment between the templars and mages while teaching the templars that mages are to be hated.eluvianix wrote...
However, I do not believe it. Some are guilty and are to blame for this, but that doesn't mean that all the Chantry should share the same guilt.errant_knight wrote...
One could only consider that he didn't if one considers every member of the Chantry guilty, no matter how lowly.
BlueMagitek wrote...
Did Dean just perform a mic drop?
Errant, I'm afraid I don't recall those conversations.
Modifié par errant_knight, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:38 .
Xilizhra wrote...
I said that you both advocated genocide and denied personhood, not that the latter automatically led to the former. It's just that you go there all by yourself. You have no grounds from which to judge me.Br3ad wrote...
Yeah, I'm not going to get into this with you agian. The geth don't simply exist. They kill and such on a species wide scale and I support destroying malfunctioning machinary.Xilizhra wrote...
Except that you've supported genocide yourself multiple times and justified it by denying the victims personhood which, historically, has been a vastly larger problem for humanity than loners with bombs.Br3ad wrote...
No to all of this. Anders also could have easily put his little bomb in the garden that is next to Meredith's office. Really, I find this extremist support very frightening. I fear for the future of humanity if such things spread. There is never a time to just kill a punch of anything.Xilizhra wrote...
Meredith's security is far too high, and Anders taking her on solo would be doomed to failure. And there's no good time, but if it's inevitable, there's probably a best time.There is a favorable time to kill a bunch of people? Really? And even if
this were true, it would have been much more productive to go after
Meredith herself. There's no excuse for any of his actions.
Anyway, I don't think cats are people. That does not mean that I want them to be exterminated. Ad hominem and ipso facto much, Xil?
Ouch Xil. That is not very kind.Xilizhra wrote...
Species is irrelevant.Tell me when I advocated for the killing of people before. I don't think I've ever said that is justified. And I mean real genocide. I've seen you advocate for these thing, but I've never said that I would kill a bunch of members of my own species.
Aaaand you just committed genocide right there, shattering your entire point.If you must know, I myself have never commited genocide on anything in any medium. Sure, I've done Destroy before, yes I will kill every Reaper. I do not do that out a sense for a hypothetical war that might happen. I do that for the wat that is happening right then. I have however never myself,
"What you believe in" is the problem.But you can keep making assumptions off of what I say about what is and what is not justified, the geth dying after siding with the Reapers is justified in my eyes, for what I actually believe in.
Those rights presumably including being wiped out because other options are scary.Actually look through the forums and you'll find that I actually say that the geth shouldn't be treated like people because it is unfair to treat everyone the same when they aren't and that they deerve their own sets of rights. Go on, go look. I'll wait.
Not really,the two comparisons don't work because the templars are institutionally taught that mages are to be hated because they are a sin in the eyes of the Maker.It's the same with institutional bigotry where people are taught by their peers that people that are different from them don't deserve to be treated like people.eluvianix wrote...
Not all of them are to blame though. Conversely, the Templars can the make the same argument that due to several people turning abomination, all mages should just be killed anyways. We mages sometimes do just as much to foster tensions as the templar side does.cjones91 wrote...
But they are guilty for fostering resentment between the templars and mages while teaching the templars that mages are to be hated.eluvianix wrote...
However, I do not believe it. Some are guilty and are to blame for this, but that doesn't mean that all the Chantry should share the same guilt.errant_knight wrote...
One could only consider that he didn't if one considers every member of the Chantry guilty, no matter how lowly.
Referring to which? The templars or other Internet people?Being a person of sound mind and socially conscience morals, he has every grounds on which to judge you.
Instead of trying to deligitimize, dehumanize, and marginalize those who actively disagree with you, Xil, you should probably learn to deal with them in slightly less hypocritical fashions. It will only help whatever cause you think you're supporting.
How so? Is not the root of all this considering each others' beliefs to be wrong?Ouch Xil. That is not very kind.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:38 .
Modifié par LOLandStuff, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:39 .
No, it reall isn't. Also, this isn't even true for you with your "Protect the race of my waifu in every video game from their every action."Xilizhra wrote...
Species is irrelevant.Tell me when I advocated for the killing of people before. I don't think I've ever said that is justified. And I mean real genocide. I've seen you advocate for these thing, but I've never said that I would kill a bunch of members of my own species.
Genocide against the Reapers, sure. In the face of actual, not hypothetical destruction it is okay to defend yourself. If you mean the geth, no. Genocide is deliberate destruction of a certain group for being in that group, and my Shepard's goal was not to wipe out all sythetics. Actually learn the definitions of words next time.Aaaand you just committed genocide right there, shattering your entire point.If you must know, I myself have never commited genocide on anything in any medium. Sure, I've done Destroy before, yes I will kill every Reaper. I do not do that out a sense for a hypothetical war that might happen. I do that for the wat that is happening right then. I have however never myself,
"And what I, Xil, believe is right.""What you believe in" is the problem.But you can keep making assumptions off of what I say about what is and what is not justified, the geth dying after siding with the Reapers is justified in my eyes, for what I actually believe in.
The end choices were either kill them, trust in the uncertainty of aiding the Reapers, which I will never do, or rape the DNA of everyone and everything. There was no choice based on rights here. Do not pretend that there are.Those rights presumably including being wiped out because other options are scary.Actually look through the forums and you'll find that I actually say that the geth shouldn't be treated like people because it is unfair to treat everyone the same when they aren't and that they deerve their own sets of rights. Go on, go look. I'll wait.
Modifié par Br3ad, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:41 .
No. I just meant the wording came off as kind of harsh when I read it. Challenging each other's beliefs is never a problem. That is what we come here to the forums to do.Xilizhra wrote...
Referring to which? The templars or other Internet people?Being a person of sound mind and socially conscience morals, he has every grounds on which to judge you.
Instead of trying to deligitimize, dehumanize, and marginalize those who actively disagree with you, Xil, you should probably learn to deal with them in slightly less hypocritical fashions. It will only help whatever cause you think you're supporting.How so? Is not the root of all this considering each others' beliefs to be wrong?Ouch Xil. That is not very kind.
Lord Raijin wrote...
Fenris is such a loving character isn't he? He hates slavery so much, yet he hasn't done 1 fricken thing about it but to complain about how he was mistreated by his former master. He goes on a mage hating spree all without the game.
If Fenris had class then how come he doesn't return back to the Tevinter Imperium to create an underground group (Very much like the mage underground) and build himself an army of slaves who shares the same value as he does? If he hates slavery that much then why doesn't he fight for HIS freedom and the freedom of other slaves in the Tevinter Imperium? He does NOTHING.
While Anders do try to ask you for help to collect some ingredients... if you refuse he still does it anyways with or without Hawkes assistance. Hes very independent when it comes to his causes.
This is what give Anders far more class than the whiny little Elf who does nothing.
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
cjones91 wrote...
But that's only a few posts,many Pro Templars treat the mages as inhuman objects and some have even likened them to being a disease.No Pro Mage advocate I've seen had never dehumanized the templars like that.
Modifié par Morocco Mole, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:41 .
And some of us just try to keep the peace, and prevent another war to mirror the one in DAIMorocco Mole wrote...
cjones91 wrote...
But that's only a few posts,many Pro Templars treat the mages as inhuman objects and some have even likened them to being a disease.No Pro Mage advocate I've seen had never dehumanized the templars like that.
Incorrect. Mage supporters are just as guilty of the things you are accusing pro-templars of.
Take Raijin and Xilizhra for example.
All sapient life has rights. And I protect members of every race.No, it reall isn't. Also, this isn't even true for you with your "Protect the race of my waifu in every video game from their every action."
You knew what would come and did so anyway. It was a deliberate choice.Genocide against the Reapers, sure. In the face of actual, not hypothetical destruction it si okay to defend yourself. If you mean the geth, no. Genocide is deliberate destruction of a certain group for being in that group, and my Shepard's goal was not to wipe out all sythetics. Actually learn the definitions of words next time.
If I didn't think so, I wouldn't believe it."And what I, Xil, believe is right."
I'm not really accusing anyone of anything,I was simply making a observation of what I've seen from both groups.Most Pro Mages don't dehumanize the other side while plenty on the Pro Templar side do just that.Morocco Mole wrote...
cjones91 wrote...
But that's only a few posts,many Pro Templars treat the mages as inhuman objects and some have even likened them to being a disease.No Pro Mage advocate I've seen had never dehumanized the templars like that.
Incorrect. Mage supporters are just as guilty of the things you are accusing pro-templars of.
Take Raijin and Xilizhra for example.
The templars are an enemy army. That doesn't mean I wouldn't accept surrenders/conversions.Morocco Mole wrote...
cjones91 wrote...
But that's only a few posts,many Pro Templars treat the mages as inhuman objects and some have even likened them to being a disease.No Pro Mage advocate I've seen had never dehumanized the templars like that.
Incorrect. Mage supporters are just as guilty of the things you are accusing pro-templars of.
Take Raijin and Xilizhra for example.
Modifié par errant_knight, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:44 .
I'll just go with 'people', unless you intend to admit to a previously unsuspected deliberate social ineptitude on the internet.Xilizhra wrote...
Referring to which? The templars or other Internet people?Being a person of sound mind and socially conscience morals, he has every grounds on which to judge you.
Instead of trying to deligitimize, dehumanize, and marginalize those who actively disagree with you, Xil, you should probably learn to deal with them in slightly less hypocritical fashions. It will only help whatever cause you think you're supporting.
Not really. The root is not being able to handle your differences with others in a mature or respectful fashion, not having differences.How so? Is not the root of all this considering each others' beliefs to be wrong?Ouch Xil. That is not very kind.
You going to hold court in the next game, Inquisitor Xil? Accept Templar fealty.Xilizhra wrote...
The templars are an enemy army. That doesn't mean I wouldn't accept surrenders/conversions.Morocco Mole wrote...
cjones91 wrote...
But that's only a few posts,many Pro Templars treat the mages as inhuman objects and some have even likened them to being a disease.No Pro Mage advocate I've seen had never dehumanized the templars like that.
Incorrect. Mage supporters are just as guilty of the things you are accusing pro-templars of.
Take Raijin and Xilizhra for example.
I have it on very good authority that you misunderstood the analogy. The mage isn't the virus- the magic inside of him or her is.cjones91 wrote...
But that's only a few posts,many Pro Templars treat the mages as inhuman objects and some have even likened them to being a disease.No Pro Mage advocate I've seen had never dehumanized the templars like that.Morocco Mole wrote...
I don't think I've ever seen Pro Mages call templars a virus or weapons.They usually only attack the organization's tendecy to see the mages as such.
This generally goes down the route of "kill the entire chantry"
Then I must ask, what can be done? The politer side of my own faction certainly hasn't helped the brutish aggression of our foes change at all.I'll just go with 'people', unless you intend to admit to a previously unsuspected deliberate social ineptitude on the internet.
If so, it's an affliction shared by my foes.Not really. The root is not being able to handle your differences with others in a mature or respectful fashion, not having differences.
Contrary to your own words, which boil down to more of you using your influence to protect da waifus from the hateful humans. And that wasn't the point.Xilizhra wrote...
All sapient life has rights. And I protect members of every race.No, it reall isn't. Also, this isn't even true for you with your "Protect the race of my waifu in every video game from their every action."
And that still is not what genocide means. You have to want to get to remove a group because of what they are.You knew what would come and did so anyway. It was a deliberate choice.Genocide against the Reapers, sure. In the face of actual, not hypothetical destruction it si okay to defend yourself. If you mean the geth, no. Genocide is deliberate destruction of a certain group for being in that group, and my Shepard's goal was not to wipe out all sythetics. Actually learn the definitions of words next time.
I've seen what you believe in. Semi-totalitarian states, dogmatic influence from you, and necrophilia among the least disturbing. I don't think anything is right about that.If I didn't think so, I wouldn't believe it."And what I, Xil, believe is right."
Modifié par Br3ad, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:48 .
Yes, but Xil saying that I'm trying to say others are wrong by saying that Xil is right is hyporitical.eluvianix wrote...
@Br3ad, do we not all believe that what we ourselves believe is right, though? Until we are proven wrong at least.
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