4643 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

Morocco Mole wrote...

To my knowledge, Feraldan is not separate from the chantry and when Alistair tries to provide the mage boon he gets the equivalent of "haha no."

And he willingly harbors apostates in DA2.

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...
Actually Fereldan is independant and if Alistair is king he intentionally defies Chantry law by harboring free mages within his borders.Antiva to my knowledge does'nt anwser to the Chantry and their laws are created by the various merchant nobles that live there.

Alistair sheltered mages fleeing Kirkwall. That doesn't mean he didn't just send them to Ferelden's Circle where the Knight Commander and the First Enchanter aren't insane.

All human kingdoms, Ferelden and Antiva included, are independant which doesn't mean they aren't all beholden to the Chantry in some form or another. One of these would be the laws of the Circle.
In Andrastian lands, if a Templars takes a mage to the Circle, it's never kidnapping because the very law empowers the Templars to do it. Therefore, it's not illegal.

Usually magic is manifested when someone reaches puberty but let's assume the templars are tipped off by a ignoramus who saw a child do something that they thought was magic....however he/she was just playing with a magical artifact that a mage family member from a Circle had given them as a present.Of course the idiot masses would'nt know the difference so the templars might make a mistake and take the child away believing him/her to be a mage.

Yeah, in that case, it wouldn't be hard to check the kid is not a mage. I'm fairly certain the Templars aren't just taking children away on accusations alone. They probrably have tests to make certain. We certainly have never heard of them ever taking a non-mage by accident.

Modifié par MisterJB, 27 octobre 2013 - 08:07 .

[Reaverwind]

Morocco Mole wrote...

To my knowledge, Feraldan is not separate from the chantry and when Alistair tries to provide the mage boon he gets the equivalent of "haha no."

Yep - WoG:

Keep in mind, however, that the kingdom doesn't control the Circle of Magi. That conversation no doubt went a little like this:

King/Queen: "We would like mages in Ferelden to be free."
Chantry: "No."

http://social.biowar...29917/1#4631921

[MisterJB]

Reaverwind wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

To my knowledge, Feraldan is not separate from the chantry and when Alistair tries to provide the mage boon he gets the equivalent of "haha no."

Yep - WoG:

Keep in mind, however, that the kingdom doesn't control the Circle of Magi. That conversation no doubt went a little like this:

King/Queen: "We would like mages in Ferelden to be free."
Chantry: "No."

http://social.biowar...29917/1#4631921

I would have looooved to see that.

Modifié par MisterJB, 27 octobre 2013 - 08:08 .

[Xilizhra]

LOLandStuff wrote...

@Xilizhra Not you, but some people blame the Chantry for his action. And blowing up a place full of innocent people and a completely inept GC is wrong. And if there was a way for him to pay for his crime, I would have chosen it. Killing him is an easy way out and would've died a martyr.

Well, that's a rather roundabout way of doing the same thing I did, but would the best way of having him make up for things is to actually see his plan through to the end by protecting the mages he endangered?

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

To my knowledge, Feraldan is not separate from the chantry and when Alistair tries to provide the mage boon he gets the equivalent of "haha no."

Yep - WoG:

Keep in mind, however, that the kingdom doesn't control the Circle of Magi. That conversation no doubt went a little like this:

King/Queen: "We would like mages in Ferelden to be free."
Chantry: "No."

http://social.biowar...29917/1#4631921

I would have looooved to see that.

Alistair would have made it comedic gold.

[Shadow Fox]

Morocco Mole wrote...

To my knowledge, Feraldan is not separate from the chantry and when Alistair tries to provide the mage boon he gets the equivalent of "haha no."

Well according to Meredith Ferelden did free it's circle.*shrugs*

[Jedi Master of Orion]

No she said "You have declared your Circle free. As if it is your right to do so!" It doesn't necessarily mean they succeeded in freeing it from the Chantry.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 27 octobre 2013 - 08:20 .

[Xilizhra]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No she said "You have declared your Circle free. As if it is your right to do so!"

Apparently the effect of this was substantial enough for her to repeat it as though it was important enough on its own.

[Shadow Fox]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No she said "You have declared your Circle free. As if it is your right to do so!" It doesn't necessarily mean they succeeded in freeing it from the Chantry.

Ah I see.

[Lord Raijin]

Morocco Mole wrote...
Considering you don't even know what a psychopath is. I must ask you if you've taken any classes outside of what you've seen on television.

Yes I know what a psychopath is. I get my sources from actual forensic textbooks, not from wikipedia I've even met a top forensic scientst,have you? where do you get your source of information from?

This is not what I am saying at all. A dog cannot reason like a human can, and this would technically follow under self-defense anyway. So again, your comparison is failing.

What I'm trying to say is that nobody likes being abused. NOBODY. If you think for a moment that the Chantry doen't abuse their captive mages then you're blind.

The slavers trying to take Fenris back were both, enemy combatants and actively attacking him. The people in the chantry that Anders blew up, were neither attacking him, or even a threat to him at all other than being members of a religious organization.

Grand Cleric Elthina was far worst than being a slaver. She sat there and done nothing about what Meredith was doing to the city.

Now, if Anders attacked the templar headquarters he'd have a better point to make.

This is also if we ignore the mages Anders intentionally threw to the lions

Why attack the Templar HQ when you can lauch an attack at the primary target? The Chantry. Meredith boss, Elthina. Doesn't it give a more powerful statement?

[Shadow Fox]

*grabs popcorn*

[LOLandStuff]

Lord Raijin wrote...



I've even met a top forensic scientst,have you?

[errant_knight]

Funny thing, I'm not in either faction--I see good and bad on both sides--but the pro-mage arguments on the forum have a tendency to make me empathize less, not more.

[LOLandStuff]

Mages can do no wrong. It's the templars' fault. Even those crazy apostates sacrificing some poor pleb in a cave are justified because...Chantry.

[Reaverwind]

errant_knight wrote...

Funny thing, I'm not in either faction--I see good and bad on both sides--but the pro-mage arguments on the forum have a tendency to make me empathize less, not more.

Ironic, isn't it? 

[Shadow Fox]

errant_knight wrote...

Funny thing, I'm not in either faction--I see good and bad on both sides--but the pro-mage arguments on the forum have a tendency to make me empathize less, not more.

I'm pro-freedom myself yet the murderous fanaticism and self-righteousness of most pro-Mages here often irritate me.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:10 .

[ScarMK]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Must we summon Dean again?

[Br3admax]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Mages can do no wrong. It's the templars' fault. Even those crazy apostates sacrificing some poor pleb in a cave are justified because...Chantry.

Finally! someone who gets it. I'm so tried of these definitely pro-Chantry in every way posters bullying mages because they hate Dalish. They are so racist/sexist! 

Modifié par Br3ad, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:19 .

[Shadow Fox]

Br3ad wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Mages can do no wrong. It's the templars' fault. Even those crazy apostates sacrificing some poor pleb in a cave are justified because...Chantry.

Finally! someone who gets it. I'm so tried of these definitely pro-Chantry in every way posters bullying mages because they hate Dalish. They are so racist/sexist! 

*BSOD*

[Ianamus]

errant_knight wrote...

Funny thing, I'm not in either faction--I see good and bad on both sides--but the pro-mage arguments on the forum have a tendency to make me empathize less, not more.

This is entirely how I feel. I rarely if ever see pro-templars trying to justify Merediths decision to annul the circle, the plan to make all mages tranquil, or the actions of the templar who took advantage of his power over mages.

But I frequently see pro-mage people trying to justify Anders blowing up what is essentially a church full of priests and priestesses and Orsino putting the entire city at risk by sacrificing his fellow mages and himself to create a Harvester (which I still believe is the single stupidest action taken by any person in Dargon Age 2, and that's really saying something).

I've even seen people try to justify the actions of some of the crazy blood mages in Dargon Age 2, who may as well have been moustache-twirling villains who drown widows and orphans in their free time. 

I don't particularly support the templars, I take a more neutral view, yet I only ever find myself arguing on their behalf- because some of the arguments the extreme mage supports make are just so... ugh. 

Modifié par EJ107, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:40 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

cjones91 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
The Chantry's law you mean.In other cultures the templars would have faced greater resistance if they tried to snatch somebody's child because they think he/she has magic.

Ferelden law, Orlesian law, Anderfels law, Antivan law. Maybe Nevarra.

And what if that child does'nt have magic?Then the templars have subjected him/her to a traumatic ordeal by removing them from their parents/village/etc;

Hum...the Templars don't take children away unless it has been proved beyond a doubt they are mages.
Usually, the evidence is that they set someone on fire and their neighbours are lynching them.

Actually Fereldan is independant and if Alistair is king he intentionally defies Chantry law by harboring free mages within his borders.Antiva to my knowledge does'nt anwser to the Chantry and their laws are created by the various merchant nobles that live there.

Usually magic is manifested when someone reaches puberty but let's assume the templars are tipped off by a ignoramus who saw a child do something that they thought was magic....however he/she was just playing with a magical artifact that a mage family member from a Circle had given them as a present.Of course the idiot masses would'nt know the difference so the templars might make a mistake and take the child away believing him/her to be a mage.

You don't think Templars are called out to false alarms frequently? You don't think they by now have certain tests they can make? It would be rather silly if they didn't have, now wouldn't it? So isn't the entire premise of your argument kinda silly?

[AresKeith]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Funny thing, I'm not in either faction--I see good and bad on both sides

Pretty much