4643 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I can count the number of actual mage characters (and not background npcs that do nothing) that don't actually turn to blood magic at any point in the story on one hand and still have fingers left over.

Yeah, but nearly every blood mage we face is in Act 3. The total number of blood mages we face in Act 1 and 2, and I mean confirmed blood mages and not rogue mages, but mages we see use blood magic, is six or seven tops.

Six or seven blood mages over 5 years in a large trade city, rife with political tensions between templars getting involved with politics, mages complaining about how little rights they have, the Qunari sitting there and so on, it just feels like six or seven blood mages over five years is closer to what templars would normally expect to find in a large city over that same period of time, maybe even slightly less if you include that group of blood mages in Denerim in Origins that none of the templars save one were willing to investigate.

It's only when Meredith has been in charge for 2-3 years that we have blood mages all over the place.

Considering how little time has passed since Act's1 and 2 before we get to Act 3, it's just really hard for me to discount Meredith and her totalitarian leadership as a large factor in the number of blood mages, especially when we know she doesn't, or at least never see her investigate her own templars and hold them accountable for their own actions.

There are 6 Blood Mages in Idunna's group alone. And that is just Act 1....

So we have one gang of blood mages, all of them apostates and no evidence they were ever part of the Circle of Kirkwall.

And I'd call it Tahrone's group, Idunna was a follower of Tahrone.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Guys, leave Xil alone. Her opinions are more extreme on the side of mages than most, but that is no reason to denigrate her as a person.

They been waiting years to make this revelation. There is no stoping them now. Maybe some of us shouldn't have insulted others. But who am I kidding? It was going to happen anyway right? 

That doesn't make it right. Under ANY circumstances. Leave Xil alone.

Oh man.... You really walked into that one didn't you?

[Xilizhra]

Foshizzlin wrote...

Let's just focus on getting the thread back on topic. It's what we intended to do in the first place.

What, by diverting the discussion to talking about me, then abruptly switching gears when your supposed masterstroke wasn't having quite the result you wanted? Nicely done, truly.

Anyway, yes. Annulment remains unjustified. A power that should be removed if anything like the templars appear again.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I can count the number of actual mage characters (and not background npcs that do nothing) that don't actually turn to blood magic at any point in the story on one hand and still have fingers left over.

Yeah, but nearly every blood mage we face is in Act 3. The total number of blood mages we face in Act 1 and 2, and I mean confirmed blood mages and not rogue mages, but mages we see use blood magic, is six or seven tops.

Six or seven blood mages over 5 years in a large trade city, rife with political tensions between templars getting involved with politics, mages complaining about how little rights they have, the Qunari sitting there and so on, it just feels like six or seven blood mages over five years is closer to what templars would normally expect to find in a large city over that same period of time, maybe even slightly less if you include that group of blood mages in Denerim in Origins that none of the templars save one were willing to investigate.

It's only when Meredith has been in charge for 2-3 years that we have blood mages all over the place.

Considering how little time has passed since Act's1 and 2 before we get to Act 3, it's just really hard for me to discount Meredith and her totalitarian leadership as a large factor in the number of blood mages, especially when we know she doesn't, or at least never see her investigate her own templars and hold them accountable for their own actions.

There are 6 Blood Mages in Idunna's group alone. And that is just Act 1....

So we have one gang of blood mages, all of them apostates and no evidence they were ever part of the Circle of Kirkwall.

And I'd call it Tahrone's group, Idunna was a follower of Tahrone.

However, Grace's and Decimus' group was a part of Starkhaven's circle.

[Br3admax]

TipsLeFedora wrote...

This forum is cancer.

It really is, bro.  Maybe you should give your message now. 

[The Hierophant]

TipsLeFedora wrote...

This forum is cancer.

Now you see the genius of my food thread?

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

Let's just focus on getting the thread back on topic. It's what we intended to do in the first place.

What, by diverting the discussion to talking about me, then abruptly switching gears when your supposed masterstroke wasn't having quite the result you wanted? Nicely done, truly.

Anyway, yes. Annulment remains unjustified. A power that should be removed if anything like the templars appear again.

Yup. Axe Annulment. At least until we can find a version that can siphons away ONLY a person's magic, not their whole entire personality.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

So we have one gang of blood mages, all of them apostates and no evidence they were ever part of the Circle of Kirkwall.

And I'd call it Tahrone's group, Idunna was a follower of Tahrone.

Well I couldn't remember crazy blue lip lady's name, but it seems I got the point across 

Anyhoo... I don't think any of them were ever in the Circle, but they are still a stress element for the Templars. The Templars have to hunt these criminals down, but they keep getting barred from doing their duty, by a rebellious Circle which seems intent on messing with the Templars.

Also, with those six Blood Mages from Act 1, plus some odd Tevinter slaver and other unnamed mages, there are also Decimus and Quintin. Both of these are former Circle members.

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

Let's just focus on getting the thread back on topic. It's what we intended to do in the first place.

What, by diverting the discussion to talking about me, then abruptly switching gears when your supposed masterstroke wasn't having quite the result you wanted? Nicely done, truly.

Anyway, yes. Annulment remains unjustified. A power that should be removed if anything like the templars appear again.

Yup. Axe Annulment. At least until we can find a version that can siphons away ONLY a person's magic, not their whole entire personality.

I think that's Tranquility you're thinking of, and I think what you referred to was explicitly stated to be impossible.

Also, with those six Blood Mages from Act 1, plus some odd Tevinter
slaver and other unnamed mages, there are also Decimus and Quintin. Both
of these are former Circle members.

Former Starkhaven Circle members.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 27 octobre 2013 - 11:29 .

[Br3admax]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Guys, leave Xil alone. Her opinions are more extreme on the side of mages than most, but that is no reason to denigrate her as a person.

They been waiting years to make this revelation. There is no stoping them now. Maybe some of us shouldn't have insulted others. But who am I kidding? It was going to happen anyway right? 

That doesn't make it right. Under ANY circumstances. Leave Xil alone.

Oh man.... You really walked into that one didn't you?

Too be fair, not every mage supporter uses the "It will happen eventually," response. Just a very vast majority. 

[dreamgazer]

TipsLeFedora wrote...

This forum is cancer.

I find it ...

[Ianamus]

In an attemot to get this discussion back on topic:

Xilizhra wrote...

We've seen no evidence that Meredith would always crack down because we 
havent seen her in a situation where there was legitimately no blood 
magic. The insane ammount of blood magic in Kirkwall was slowly driving her  insane, and the more the mages used it the more crazy she became herself.

Regardless, none of it justifies the Annulment, which was my original point.

I agree personally that annulment was too far and that Meredith made the wrong decision, I just see why she did it. It was the result of a nasty cycle perpetuated by both Meredith and the blood mages within the circle, and both innocent Templars and Mages ended up dying as a result of the extreme ones within their ranks.

I find it hard to find a group to side with because both sides were so at fault, which is why I sided with the templars and spared the mages who surrendered and didn't resort to blood magic in the final battle. 

[LOLandStuff]

And first thing Decimus did was slitting his wrists.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I can count the number of actual mage characters (and not background npcs that do nothing) that don't actually turn to blood magic at any point in the story on one hand and still have fingers left over.

Yeah, but nearly every blood mage we face is in Act 3. The total number of blood mages we face in Act 1 and 2, and I mean confirmed blood mages and not rogue mages, but mages we see use blood magic, is six or seven tops.

Six or seven blood mages over 5 years in a large trade city, rife with political tensions between templars getting involved with politics, mages complaining about how little rights they have, the Qunari sitting there and so on, it just feels like six or seven blood mages over five years is closer to what templars would normally expect to find in a large city over that same period of time, maybe even slightly less if you include that group of blood mages in Denerim in Origins that none of the templars save one were willing to investigate.

It's only when Meredith has been in charge for 2-3 years that we have blood mages all over the place.

Considering how little time has passed since Act's1 and 2 before we get to Act 3, it's just really hard for me to discount Meredith and her totalitarian leadership as a large factor in the number of blood mages, especially when we know she doesn't, or at least never see her investigate her own templars and hold them accountable for their own actions.

There are 6 Blood Mages in Idunna's group alone. And that is just Act 1....

So we have one gang of blood mages, all of them apostates and no evidence they were ever part of the Circle of Kirkwall.

And I'd call it Tahrone's group, Idunna was a follower of Tahrone.

However, Grace's and Decimus' group was a part of Starkhaven's circle.

So let's recap. Decimus, Grace, Idunna and Tahrone, and those who follow them for one reason or another. With one group, we have no evidence they were ever part of the Circle, and the other group it is said in dialogue that they turned to blood magic simply because they were already going to be accused of it and put to death anyway, which is something Thrask confirms would've happened if Kerras showed up.

One is a group that truly needs wiping out, and the other is a group that ends up mostly wiped out, but did it out of desperation because of standard templar practices.

Now I'm not defending Deciumus' group, but simply pointing out that not all the blame can be put on their shoulders. Merely most of it, since they did make the choice.

[Br3admax]

dreamgazer wrote...

TipsLeFedora wrote...

This forum is cancer.

I find it ...

Is that how she feeds the fish? 

[Xilizhra]

EJ107 wrote...

In an attemot to get this discussion back on topic:

Xilizhra wrote...

We've seen no evidence that Meredith would always crack down because we 
havent seen her in a situation where there was legitimately no blood 
magic. The insane ammount of blood magic in Kirkwall was slowly driving her  insane, and the more the mages used it the more crazy she became herself.

Regardless, none of it justifies the Annulment, which was my original point.

I agree personally that annulment was too far and that Meredith made the wrong decision, I just see why she did it. It was the result of a nasty cycle perpetuated by both Meredith and the blood mages within the circle, and both innocent Templars and Mages ended up dying as a result of the extreme ones within their ranks.

I find it hard to find a group to side with because both sides were so at fault, which is why I sided with the templars and spared the mages who surrendered and didn't resort to blood magic in the final battle. 

I don't think there are any innocent templars. Everyone who participated in the Annulment is guilty of genocide.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

Let's just focus on getting the thread back on topic. It's what we intended to do in the first place.

What, by diverting the discussion to talking about me, then abruptly switching gears when your supposed masterstroke wasn't having quite the result you wanted? Nicely done, truly.

Anyway, yes. Annulment remains unjustified. A power that should be removed if anything like the templars appear again.

Yup. Axe Annulment. At least until we can find a version that can siphons away ONLY a person's magic, not their whole entire personality.

I think that's Tranquility you're thinking of, and I think what you referred to was explicitly stated to be impossible.

Also, with those six Blood Mages from Act 1, plus some odd Tevinter
slaver and other unnamed mages, there are also Decimus and Quintin. Both
of these are former Circle members.

Former Starkhaven Circle members.

Yeah, I meant Tranquility. But yeah, axe Annulment too! Or put much more serious and heavy restrictions on it.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I don't think there are any innocent templars. Everyone who participated in the Annulment is guilty of genocide.

Therefore, Anders causing the annulment to be enacted in the first place. Is also guilty of genocide.

As Orsino would be, if he started it by asking for Meredith's help with Quentin, by that standard.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

In an attemot to get this discussion back on topic:

Xilizhra wrote...

We've seen no evidence that Meredith would always crack down because we 
havent seen her in a situation where there was legitimately no blood 
magic. The insane ammount of blood magic in Kirkwall was slowly driving her  insane, and the more the mages used it the more crazy she became herself.

Regardless, none of it justifies the Annulment, which was my original point.

I agree personally that annulment was too far and that Meredith made the wrong decision, I just see why she did it. It was the result of a nasty cycle perpetuated by both Meredith and the blood mages within the circle, and both innocent Templars and Mages ended up dying as a result of the extreme ones within their ranks.

I find it hard to find a group to side with because both sides were so at fault, which is why I sided with the templars and spared the mages who surrendered and didn't resort to blood magic in the final battle. 

I don't think there are any innocent templars. Everyone who participated in the Annulment is guilty of genocide.

You bring up a good point. Even if they were "just following orders", they still did participate. However, I do find it worthy to note that Cullen did hold the Templars back in the end, even if it was too late by that point.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I don't think there are any innocent templars. Everyone who participated in the Annulment is guilty of genocide.

Therefore, Anders causing the annulment to be enacted in the first place. Is also guilty of genocide.

As Orsino would be, if he started it by asking for Meredith's help with Quentin, by that standard.

I am inclined to think that even if Orsino was innocent of any blood magic, Meredith would use his connection to Quentin against him.

[Xilizhra]

You bring up a good point. Even if they were "just following orders", they still did participate. However, I do find it worthy to note that Cullen did hold the Templars back in the end, even if it was too late by that point.

Only from killing Hawke personally, and since she wasn't even a target of the Annulment, I don't really think it counts for much.