Circular reasoning is circuclar. He joined a group of fanatics that he felt sorry for and needed to find someway to justify it and gain help. Nothing more.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Well if you sided with Orisino at the start of act 3, Thrask's goons think you're spying for him rather than Meredith, and he's not a friend to Meredith but he's not willing to start an open rebellion until Meredith and Anders force his hand.
The *I support the Templars* Thread V2
Débuté par
Ausstig
, juin 14 2013 11:43
#101
Posté 21 octobre 2013 - 11:46
Br3admax
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Retour en haut
#102
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 12:15
cjones91
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Well what you would have done if your leader was killing anyone who opposed her and letting atrocities happen under her watch?Atleast Thrask was not blinded by fanatacism like most templars were.Br3ad wrote...
Circular reasoning is circuclar. He joined a group of fanatics that he felt sorry for and needed to find someway to justify it and gain help. Nothing more.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Well if you sided with Orisino at the start of act 3, Thrask's goons think you're spying for him rather than Meredith, and he's not a friend to Meredith but he's not willing to start an open rebellion until Meredith and Anders force his hand.
#103
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:20
Lord Raijin
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Necanor wrote...
He was a fool for co-operating with blood mages.
Are the Grey Wardens fools for allowing blood mages into their ranks? I don't view blood mages in such negative way like you or any other pro Templar here.
Oh and by default Hawke is a blood mage. So that makes Meredith and the Viscounts fools for co-operating with a blood mage
The Hierophant wrote...
Thrask kidnapped Hawke's sibling or companion while allowing the mages he worked with to summon demons.
lolz @ should work together against demons.
Where is proof of this? This is new to me. Can you show me a scene where Thrask was responsible for kidnapping Hawke's sibling/companion?
#104
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:23
Br3admax
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Kidnapping and murder obviously. That is what I would do. I'd kidnap the second most powerful person in Kirkwall's loved one, because that is how I expect to get support. Obviously there are no alternatives, and this is the smartest plan. Yes, sympathies aplenty.cjones91 wrote...
Well what you would have done if your leader was killing anyone who opposed her and letting atrocities happen under her watch?Atleast Thrask was not blinded by fanatacism like most templars were.Br3ad wrote...
Circular reasoning is circuclar. He joined a group of fanatics that he felt sorry for and needed to find someway to justify it and gain help. Nothing more.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Well if you sided with Orisino at the start of act 3, Thrask's goons think you're spying for him rather than Meredith, and he's not a friend to Meredith but he's not willing to start an open rebellion until Meredith and Anders force his hand.
#105
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:36
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
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Are the Grey Wardens fools for allowing blood mages into their ranks? I don't view blood mages in such negative way like you or any other pro Templar here.
Grey Wardens are a very special case. And even they use blood magic for nefarious purposes if they think it will give them an edge over the dark spawn.
Oh and by default Hawke is a blood mage. So that makes Meredith and the Viscounts fools for co-operating with a blood mage
No he isn't?
Where is proof of this? This is new to me. Can you show me a scene where Thrask was responsible for kidnapping Hawke's sibling/companion?
I suggest you watch the scene again. Thrask wanted the sibling/companion kidnapped because he knew it would lead Hawke to him so they could talk (as idiotic an idea that is) and crazy bloodmage# 2312 decides to forego that plan and kill hawke because ????
Its very bad writing in a game full of it.
#106
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:45
Reaverwind
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Morocco Mole wrote...
I suggest you watch the scene again. Thrask wanted the sibling/companion kidnapped because he knew it would lead Hawke to him so they could talk (as idiotic an idea that is) and crazy bloodmage# 2312 decides to forego that plan and kill hawke because ????
Its very bad writing in a game full of it.
Well, that plan wouldn't have worked, anyway. I was contemplating killing Thrask slowly, before the crazy mage stepped in.
#107
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:47
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
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That whole terrible scene is probably my favorite example of how stupid DA2's plot is.
>Let mage go.
>OMG HOW DARE U LET ME GO I HAD TO STARVE AND NEARLY DIED AND I BLAME YOU DIE PLZ
Send mage to circle
>OMG HOW DARE U SEND ME TO THE CIRCLE! CIRCLE IS HORRIBLE DIE PLZ!
>Let mage go.
>OMG HOW DARE U LET ME GO I HAD TO STARVE AND NEARLY DIED AND I BLAME YOU DIE PLZ
Send mage to circle
>OMG HOW DARE U SEND ME TO THE CIRCLE! CIRCLE IS HORRIBLE DIE PLZ!
#108
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:48
Hellion Rex
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I think they were referring to the mage Hawke from the Destiny trailer that used blood magic.Morocco Mole wrote...
Are the Grey Wardens fools for allowing blood mages into their ranks? I don't view blood mages in such negative way like you or any other pro Templar here.
Grey Wardens are a very special case. And even they use blood magic for nefarious purposes if they think it will give them an edge over the dark spawn.Oh and by default Hawke is a blood mage. So that makes Meredith and the Viscounts fools for co-operating with a blood mage
No he isn't?Where is proof of this? This is new to me. Can you show me a scene where Thrask was responsible for kidnapping Hawke's sibling/companion?
I suggest you watch the scene again. Thrask wanted the sibling/companion kidnapped because he knew it would lead Hawke to him so they could talk (as idiotic an idea that is) and crazy bloodmage# 2312 decides to forego that plan and kill hawke because ????
Its very bad writing in a game full of it.
#109
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:49
Hellion Rex
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Somebody has a bone to pick, my friend.Morocco Mole wrote...
That whole terrible scene is probably my favorite example of how stupid DA2's plot is.
>Let mage go.
>OMG HOW DARE U LET ME GO I HAD TO STARVE AND NEARLY DIED AND I BLAME YOU DIE PLZ
Send mage to circle
>OMG HOW DARE U SEND ME TO THE CIRCLE! CIRCLE IS HORRIBLE DIE PLZ!
#110
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 04:23
Jedi Master of Orion
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Grace's hatred of Hawke came mostly from them killing Decimus.
#111
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 04:29
Star fury
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Morocco Mole wrote...
Grey Wardens are a very special case. And even they use blood magic for nefarious purposes if they think it will give them an edge over the dark spawn.
The blood magic is not evil, we have a "word of god". All this rhetoric about "nefarious purposes" is missing the point.
#112
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 04:31
Senya
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What Word of God? I read in World of Thedas that it feeds on death. I don't know how eviler it can get short of summoning a demon.
#113
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 04:32
Star fury
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Morocco Mole wrote...
That whole terrible scene is probably my favorite example of how stupid DA2's plot is.
>Let mage go.
>OMG HOW DARE U LET ME GO I HAD TO STARVE AND NEARLY DIED AND I BLAME YOU DIE PLZ
Send mage to circle
>OMG HOW DARE U SEND ME TO THE CIRCLE! CIRCLE IS HORRIBLE DIE PLZ!
LMAO. Choices matter too.
#114
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 04:39
LobselVith8
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almostinsane99 wrote...
What Word of God? I read in World of Thedas that it feeds on death. I don't know how eviler it can get short of summoning a demon.
Blood magic isn't inherently evil, which is the point. The Joining and phylacteries are forms of blood magic; Finn's ritual was a type of blood magic; blood magic is a school of magic that can be used for benevolent or malevolent purposes.
#115
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 06:39
Lotion Soronarr
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To apply the labeld goodnad evil to blood magic is silly. Morality doesn't factor into it.
Abusabiltiy does. After all, a box of vials of deadly deseases and plauges isn't evil, yet you wouldn't trust anyone with it, now would you?
BLodo magic isn't "evil". But it is the most abusable, the most tempting and therefore the most corrupting power one can have in DA.
Abusabiltiy does. After all, a box of vials of deadly deseases and plauges isn't evil, yet you wouldn't trust anyone with it, now would you?
BLodo magic isn't "evil". But it is the most abusable, the most tempting and therefore the most corrupting power one can have in DA.
#116
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 06:43
Cainhurst Crow
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This thread is going places.
And by places, I mean a lock.
And by places, I mean a lock.
#117
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 12:11
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
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BLodo magic isn't "evil". But it is the most abusable, the most tempting and therefore the most corrupting power one can have in DA.
Exactly. And I can count the number of blood magic that doesn't backfire horribly and end up ruining someone's life on one hand and still have fingers left over.
All this rhetoric about "nefarious purposes" is missing the point.
Eh was mostly referring to Avernus using blood magic to nudge nobles and other important people in Thedas to support the Wardens.
Modifié par Morocco Mole, 22 octobre 2013 - 12:29 .
#118
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 12:24
Star fury
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Ah, then it was misunderstanding, sorry.Morocco Mole wrote...
Eh was mostly referring to Avernus using blood magic to nudge nobles and other important people in Thedas to support the Wardens.
#119
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 12:38
Xilizhra
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That's because you're factoring the far more harmful actions of other people as the fault of said blood magic when they're really not.Exactly. And I can count the number of blood magic that doesn't backfire horribly and end up ruining someone's life on one hand and still have fingers left over.
#120
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 12:39
Lord Raijin
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[quote]MisterJB wrote...
Just play the quest again. Hawke asks Samson if the mages used blood magic to ressurect the dead and he confirms it and also that Thrask knew but looked the other way; Alain will use blood magic in front of you; Grace will turn into a damn Abomination.[/quote]
Thrask did not approve of blood magic, I told you that before; He had said it himself. Alain had no choice but to use blood magic to free your captive companions/siblings. As far as what Samson said.... I'm taking it with the strain of salt. Theirs no actual proof indicating that blood magic was use to ressurect the dead.
[quote]
1-It's unfeasible to place the entire non-magical population in Circles; not that Tevinter hasn't tried.
2-Non-mages aren't as dangerous on an individual basis which means they don't merit the same restrictions.
3-Non-mages can be disarmed.
4-Non-mages are not as susceptible to demonic possession.
5-The Circle also exists to allow non-mages to remain dominants in their own societies.[/quote]
1. Don't you also think it's unfeasible to place every mage population in Circle?
2. Non-Mages as just as dangerous if not more. Loghain, Rendon Howe and Sten are your prime examples.
3. Punching, kicking and biting. You don't fully disarm a non-mage.
4. Wrong. If you had paid any attention to the game you'll see that non-mages can be susceptible to demonic possession. They too can be drawn into the control of demons too on top it off.
5. Do you not believe in equality?
[quote]
Really. You mean it was Meredith who blew up the Chantry and set the city on fire? I sure didn't notice it./quote]
Meredith didn't physically blew up the Chantry, but she along with the Grand Cleric was the main ingrediants for it. Their were Templar vs Mage war going on in Kirkwall prior to Hawke entering the gallows. Mages had targeted the Grand Cleric before. As far as setting the city on fire... wasn't that provoked by a Chantry mother who wanted to start up a war against the Quanri who had done nothing to get such mistreatment? Their were plenty of burning going on there... plus dead bodies scattering all over the place.
[quote]The one single mage that turned to blood magic to escape any "jailer" was Alain. Every other had ulterior motives.[/quote]
So all but Alian used blood magic for evil huh?
[quote]And why shouldn't I? We know nothing about the situation.
You're the one making wild assumptions based on your biases.[/quote]
You're being judgemental and we already know the current situation. Mages and Templars are at holy war against each other. Templars had disbandon the Chantry and are on their own now. They will do as they please, and that means take the law into their own hands. The Templars are now common thugs.
[quote]
You said that if someone who figths for his freedom is bad, then everyone else who does the same must also be bad.
I tried to show it to you how you're making a ridiculous generalization by giving examples of different groups that fight for freedom but who do it for different reasons and use different methods.
Just because the mages fight for "freedom", that doesn't automatically make them "good". There are a myriad of factors at play here.[/quote]
Being forced to live in isolation due to fear can cause a lot of resentments. Its the gasoline to which can burst into flames with the right ingredient at anytime. I've never said that someone who is fighting for his freedom is bad... stop making stuffs up because I never said such a thing like that. and mages whos fighting for "freedom" and using any available art of magic to aid them to battle doesn't automatically make them "bad" either.
[quote]Non-magical society: A Templar rapes a mage and has to conceal his crime for fear of punishment.
Magical society: Danarius continously rapes Fenris for years while conducting painful experiments on him and it is absolutely legal and socially acceptable because Fenris is a lowly slave and Danarius a powerful magister.
You got no moral high ground.[/quote]
I wouldn't exactly use Fenris as an example as he tend to use that "painful experiment" to his benefits... like sqeezing or tearing the heart out of his enemies. He doesn't mind using the very same tool that his master had given to him. Fenris hates mages, but doesn't mind using magic that was given to him to defeat his enemies... HYPOCRITE.
[quote]Had Quentin been in the Circle; not only would Emeric be alive but also every woman he murdered.[/quote]
Had the Templars (Not just Emeric ) persued this man as top priority perhabs the causities would've been to a minimum.
[quote]
You know what? I am actually going to adress the whole "crime of being born with magic".
I'm sure you're aware there are many restrictions that come with living in society. Don't go here, don't park there, walk a certain way, don't own this object, don't consume this, etc, etc, etc.
Why are these restrictions there? Because they are necessary so that society may exist; so that humans may co-exist.
Now, do these restrictions apply only if someone has given evidence of being dangerous? For instance, is my inability to own a tank dependant upon me having already used a tank to harm someone? No, the restrictions applies unniversaly and since birth.
Why? Because people are dangerous. So, we restrict our freedoms so as to provide security.
And in Thedas, mages are more dangerous than normal people. Logically, shouldn't their restrictions also be harsher in order to reflect this increased danger they represent to others?[/quote]
Now tell me what does this have to do with being born with magic? Don't get me wrong I am not against the Circle. I am against Chantry run Circles; where Mages are essentinally treated as prisoners. Don't you understand that if you restrict peoples freedom that it will only create war and riots? Don't you watch the news from time to time? A government who restricts freedom from their people are asking for a civil war.
[quote]
If there is someone who has experience in turning into giant monsters, it's the mage side.
I think I'll just start using your arguments. "A mage made me do it, it's not my fault."[/quote]
Yeah blame the mages for templars turning into red lyrium monsters.
[quote]
Posting pictures you consider sad is not an argument. It's appeal to emotion; emotional blackmail.
It has no effect on me whatsoever.[/quote]
Yes it is an argument. Templars are currently out of control. They have no problem attacking mages who are carrying around a baby in their arms. Mages are being forced to use blood magic to protect themselves against the rebel Templars.
Just play the quest again. Hawke asks Samson if the mages used blood magic to ressurect the dead and he confirms it and also that Thrask knew but looked the other way; Alain will use blood magic in front of you; Grace will turn into a damn Abomination.[/quote]
Thrask did not approve of blood magic, I told you that before; He had said it himself. Alain had no choice but to use blood magic to free your captive companions/siblings. As far as what Samson said.... I'm taking it with the strain of salt. Theirs no actual proof indicating that blood magic was use to ressurect the dead.
[quote]
1-It's unfeasible to place the entire non-magical population in Circles; not that Tevinter hasn't tried.
2-Non-mages aren't as dangerous on an individual basis which means they don't merit the same restrictions.
3-Non-mages can be disarmed.
4-Non-mages are not as susceptible to demonic possession.
5-The Circle also exists to allow non-mages to remain dominants in their own societies.[/quote]
1. Don't you also think it's unfeasible to place every mage population in Circle?
2. Non-Mages as just as dangerous if not more. Loghain, Rendon Howe and Sten are your prime examples.
3. Punching, kicking and biting. You don't fully disarm a non-mage.
4. Wrong. If you had paid any attention to the game you'll see that non-mages can be susceptible to demonic possession. They too can be drawn into the control of demons too on top it off.
5. Do you not believe in equality?
[quote]
Really. You mean it was Meredith who blew up the Chantry and set the city on fire? I sure didn't notice it./quote]
Meredith didn't physically blew up the Chantry, but she along with the Grand Cleric was the main ingrediants for it. Their were Templar vs Mage war going on in Kirkwall prior to Hawke entering the gallows. Mages had targeted the Grand Cleric before. As far as setting the city on fire... wasn't that provoked by a Chantry mother who wanted to start up a war against the Quanri who had done nothing to get such mistreatment? Their were plenty of burning going on there... plus dead bodies scattering all over the place.
[quote]The one single mage that turned to blood magic to escape any "jailer" was Alain. Every other had ulterior motives.[/quote]
So all but Alian used blood magic for evil huh?
[quote]And why shouldn't I? We know nothing about the situation.
You're the one making wild assumptions based on your biases.[/quote]
You're being judgemental and we already know the current situation. Mages and Templars are at holy war against each other. Templars had disbandon the Chantry and are on their own now. They will do as they please, and that means take the law into their own hands. The Templars are now common thugs.
[quote]
You said that if someone who figths for his freedom is bad, then everyone else who does the same must also be bad.
I tried to show it to you how you're making a ridiculous generalization by giving examples of different groups that fight for freedom but who do it for different reasons and use different methods.
Just because the mages fight for "freedom", that doesn't automatically make them "good". There are a myriad of factors at play here.[/quote]
Being forced to live in isolation due to fear can cause a lot of resentments. Its the gasoline to which can burst into flames with the right ingredient at anytime. I've never said that someone who is fighting for his freedom is bad... stop making stuffs up because I never said such a thing like that. and mages whos fighting for "freedom" and using any available art of magic to aid them to battle doesn't automatically make them "bad" either.
[quote]Non-magical society: A Templar rapes a mage and has to conceal his crime for fear of punishment.
Magical society: Danarius continously rapes Fenris for years while conducting painful experiments on him and it is absolutely legal and socially acceptable because Fenris is a lowly slave and Danarius a powerful magister.
You got no moral high ground.[/quote]
I wouldn't exactly use Fenris as an example as he tend to use that "painful experiment" to his benefits... like sqeezing or tearing the heart out of his enemies. He doesn't mind using the very same tool that his master had given to him. Fenris hates mages, but doesn't mind using magic that was given to him to defeat his enemies... HYPOCRITE.
[quote]Had Quentin been in the Circle; not only would Emeric be alive but also every woman he murdered.[/quote]
Had the Templars (Not just Emeric ) persued this man as top priority perhabs the causities would've been to a minimum.
[quote]
You know what? I am actually going to adress the whole "crime of being born with magic".
I'm sure you're aware there are many restrictions that come with living in society. Don't go here, don't park there, walk a certain way, don't own this object, don't consume this, etc, etc, etc.
Why are these restrictions there? Because they are necessary so that society may exist; so that humans may co-exist.
Now, do these restrictions apply only if someone has given evidence of being dangerous? For instance, is my inability to own a tank dependant upon me having already used a tank to harm someone? No, the restrictions applies unniversaly and since birth.
Why? Because people are dangerous. So, we restrict our freedoms so as to provide security.
And in Thedas, mages are more dangerous than normal people. Logically, shouldn't their restrictions also be harsher in order to reflect this increased danger they represent to others?[/quote]
Now tell me what does this have to do with being born with magic? Don't get me wrong I am not against the Circle. I am against Chantry run Circles; where Mages are essentinally treated as prisoners. Don't you understand that if you restrict peoples freedom that it will only create war and riots? Don't you watch the news from time to time? A government who restricts freedom from their people are asking for a civil war.
[quote]
If there is someone who has experience in turning into giant monsters, it's the mage side.
I think I'll just start using your arguments. "A mage made me do it, it's not my fault."[/quote]
Yeah blame the mages for templars turning into red lyrium monsters.
[quote]
Posting pictures you consider sad is not an argument. It's appeal to emotion; emotional blackmail.
It has no effect on me whatsoever.[/quote]
Yes it is an argument. Templars are currently out of control. They have no problem attacking mages who are carrying around a baby in their arms. Mages are being forced to use blood magic to protect themselves against the rebel Templars.
#121
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:29
Hazegurl
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I love ratting out Alain after getting help from him.
#122
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:38
Lord Raijin
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Hazegurl wrote...
I love ratting out Alain after getting help from him.
Typical templar lover.
#123
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:39
Reaverwind
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Lord Raijin wrote...
Hazegurl wrote...
I love ratting out Alain after getting help from him.
Typical templar lover.
This is the Templar support thread. Sheesh. The mage support thread is that-a-way.
#124
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:40
Hellion Rex
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Not very nice.Hazegurl wrote...
I love ratting out Alain after getting help from him.
#125
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 01:40
Hellion Rex
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We have just as much a right to post here as you do on our home turf.Reaverwind wrote...
Lord Raijin wrote...
Hazegurl wrote...
I love ratting out Alain after getting help from him.
Typical templar lover.
This is the Templar support thread. Sheesh. The mage support thread is that-a-way.
