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[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...
What rules? The Chantries rules? The rules that clearly incidates the incareration of all mages in Thedas and throw them all in the Circle where they must stay until they perish this world? Don't you think mages should have their freedom once they've passed the Harrowing?

The ruels that allow mages mroe right and privilidges as they prove themselves.
But Anders didn't prove himself anything other than being an idiot.

And no, I don't think mages should be freed once they pass the Harrowing.

In the past Templars have been proven just as dangerous if not more. Shall we throw them all in some prison made circle run by Seekers as well?

Wrong. Mages and tempalrs are not evne close or in the same ballpark.

Knight-Commander Martel not only confess to Cassandra to being a co-conspirator of a blood mage in the Chantry ranks, but he also murdered a high ranked Seeker to prevent him from alerting the Divine about his treachery.

Plase, dont' evne mention that horrible movie. Everyone looked like a retard. Mages fought in melee and had tiny, impotent energy blasts as the only spell. Horrible.

Didn't seem to work as the tension prgressively turned for the worst. All that could've been avoided had she done something about it rather than to treat Orsino and Meredith like a bunch of spoiled babies.

What part of "Elthina was starting to lean towards Orsino" escapes you?
Anders lacked patiance. And brains.

You've completly avoided answering to my questions. Why is that?

And you do avoid answering mine.
But to answer yours, no, I would go the Anders route.

Mages are "guilty" of being mages. Thay are guilty of being a threat.
Thus they are not "innocent". It is irrelveant if that is within their power to control or not. It is irrelevant if they want it or not. Them hoping of believing really really hard doesn't change a damn thing.

Oh right. By your ridiculous logic If you were born as a woman in an Arab parts of the world... Women  guilty for being women and therefour deserve to be treated like cattle, and not as human beings.  Like I said before Non-mages has been proven by history that they can be just as dangerous if not more.

Wrong. Non-mages cannto be compared to mages. Period.
Also women are not a danger, so your analgoy falls flat on it's face, rolls in the mud and dies at the side of the road.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lambert didn't dismiss the cure either. He explained very clearly to Evangeine why the current political landscape was too unstable for news of such magnitutde to be released. It would be better to hold on to this information and release it in calmer times, than now where the mages would use it against the Chantry. Of course Evangeline being the ****** poor Templar she was didn't listen and allowed for all of this to happen. Jolly good job there lady!

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...
True but then again Anders wouldn't had the motivation to do such a thing like that without the Chantry giving him a reason.If those "innocent" bystanders allowed the Chantry to abuse mages then they are partial responsible, and are exempted from being labled as "innocent". In fact these "innocent" bystanders in Hightown show little to no remorse for the mages, and would prefer them not to speak in public indicates that they're not as innocent as you think they are. The fact to the matter is they've been indoctrinated by the Cantry to believe that they cannot be safe on the streets with mages, and must depend on them for their safety.

Guilt by association?

The only indoctrination is the one in your head. your desire to free the mages is such that everything that doesn't favor your twistel little worldview is chantry propaganda". Anyone that disagrees is "brainwashed" and "a legitimate target". So cute.

Then I will apply the same reasoning to mages. Ergo, all are guilty.

It seems to be your logic since you show no compassion for mages who tries fighting for their freedom.

It's not lack of compassion that prompts people to side with keepign the Circels and not allowing the mages to go free.
It's not allowing our emotions and bias to cloud our judgment.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...
Not to the extent, apparently, that Justinia wanted to see any punishments for what they did.

Or it could be due to the fact that the Templars split before Justinia could really say or do anything (by the time she found out both the mages and the tempalrs have split), and having lost the military arm now didn't know what to do anymore.

[Reaverwind]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lambert didn't dismiss the cure either. He explained very clearly to Evangeine why the current political landscape was too unstable for news of such magnitutde to be released. It would be better to hold on to this information and release it in calmer times, than now where the mages would use it against the Chantry. Of course Evangeline being the ****** poor Templar she was didn't listen and allowed for all of this to happen. Jolly good job there lady!

It'd be poetic justice should Evangeline suffer Thrask's fate (a fitting end for the fool). 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Not to the extent, apparently, that Justinia wanted to see any punishments for what they did.

Or it could be due to the fact that the Templars split before Justinia could really say or do anything (by the time she found out both the mages and the tempalrs have split), and having lost the military arm now didn't know what to do anymore.

Indeed - the Chantry is rather impotent atm.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 28 octobre 2013 - 09:04 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...
That logic is hard to comprehend. The Chantry of Kirkwall had no intentions to play fair for the mages, and allowed a dictator Commander to go on for as long as it did, even as far as to allow her to get involved in the political affairs of the city, and thus prevented the elections of a new Viscount. This has been going on for years, and I find it hard to believe that Elthina was not aware of this nor could of done something about it. After all she was the Boss of the templars in Kirkwall. She could of ordered Cullen to arrest and imprison Meredith if she could, and Cullen would not hesitate but to do exactly what she tells him to do.

Just because you find it hard to belive, doesn't make it impossible.

Elthina herself said to Hawke that he is overestimating her power. She was a mediator. A nautral party.
Unfortunately both Meredith and Orsino were bonkers.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...
I'm more of a Reform Templar Order supporter myself.I want them to expand and offer protection for villages plagued by demon/abomination attacks.

Don't they already send out patrols and have a templar presence in every town/village with a chantry?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Yes.

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
I'm more of a Reform Templar Order supporter myself.I want them to expand and offer protection for villages plagued by demon/abomination attacks.

Don't they already send out patrols and have a templar presence in every town/village with a chantry?

Yes,but there are plenty of places where the Chantry does'nt have influence in and those are the areas the templars should expand in.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...
Yes,but there are plenty of places where the Chantry does'nt have influence in and those are the areas the templars should expand in.

Easy to say. That requires more recruits.
More lyrium. More equipment. More money.

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Yes,but there are plenty of places where the Chantry does'nt have influence in and those are the areas the templars should expand in.

Easy to say. That requires more recruits.
More lyrium. More equipment. More money.

Which they can easily get from the local arls and banns.

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Yes,but there are plenty of places where the Chantry does'nt have influence in and those are the areas the templars should expand in.

Easy to say. That requires more recruits.
More lyrium. More equipment. More money.

And considering how some of the Templars have left with Lambert, they lose the major source of funding that they had in the Chantry. Maybe we can find another way to fund the Order that does not solely rely on the Chantry.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Yes,but there are plenty of places where the Chantry does'nt have influence in and those are the areas the templars should expand in.

Easy to say. That requires more recruits.
More lyrium. More equipment. More money.

And considering how some of the Templars have left with Lambert, they lose the major source of funding that they had in the Chantry. Maybe we can find another way to fund the Order that does not solely rely on the Chantry.

*cough* Inquisitor* cough*

With a few changes on the rules they can be expected to follow of course.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...
Which they can easily get from the local arls and banns.

Not really.
Nobility is not known for giving anything without a fight.

Far too many poeple fall into the trap of thinking things are easy.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Yes,but there are plenty of places where the Chantry does'nt have influence in and those are the areas the templars should expand in.

Easy to say. That requires more recruits.
More lyrium. More equipment. More money.

And considering how some of the Templars have left with Lambert, they lose the major source of funding that they had in the Chantry. Maybe we can find another way to fund the Order that does not solely rely on the Chantry.

*cough* Inquisitor* cough*

With a few changes on the rules they can be expected to follow of course.

But of course.:innocent:I would be more than willing to fund them, if they either change a few things, or even better, swear fealty to me.

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Which they can easily get from the local arls and banns.

Not really.
Nobility is not known for giving anything without a fight.

Far too many poeple fall into the trap of thinking things are easy.

You are right in that it will not be easy. It will take time and effort. But perhaps the Inquisition can help sway, if not intimidate, the nobles into helping out the Order.

[Lord Raijin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The ruels that allow mages mroe right and privilidges as they prove themselves.
But Anders didn't prove himself anything other than being an idiot.

And no, I don't think mages should be freed once they pass the Harrowing.

You say more rights and privileges, but who died and left the Chantry in charge to make these decisions? Did the Maker make his presence in Thedas and gave explicit orders to the Chantry to control his people to which he gave his gift to?

Like Isabela would say “Everyone should be free. Not just mages.”

No Anders was not being an idiot. He decided that he no longer wants to follow the teachings and the rules of the Chantry, and that is his right to do so. If that makes him an idiot then so be it.

Wrong. Mages and templars are not evne close or in the same ballpark.

and how do you assume that?

Plase, dont' evne mention that horrible movie. Everyone looked like a retard. Mages fought in melee and had tiny, impotent energy blasts as the only spell. Horrible.

The animation might be terrible but the storyline is a different story. Everyone likes to pinpoint the connection between The First enchanter Orsino with the crazy blood mage who killed 3 people in Kirkwall... yet nobody wants to talk about how a Knight-Commander, who was suppose to serve the Chantry and protect the Divine, was conspiring a plan to have the Divine assassinated over power.

What part of "Elthina was starting to lean towards Orsino" escapes you?
Anders lacked patiance. And brains.

Oh really? Can you show me a clip of this happening? This is new to me.

If Anders lack of patience and brains then how come he was successful of blowing up the Chantry? Takes brains and patience to do something like that, do you agree with that or are you going to be stubborn and think of another excuse to bash Anders?

And you do avoid answering mine.
But to answer yours, no, I would go the Anders route.

No I'm not avoiding answering to your questions, not intentionally that is.

Wrong. Non-mages cannto be compared to mages. Period.
Also women are not a danger, so your analgoy falls flat on it's face, rolls in the mud and dies at the side of the road.

You can deny history all you want, but non-mages have been proven just as dangerous if not more than the mages.  Look at what Sister/Mother Petrice was trying to do... using religion of the Maker to further her own ambition to start up a war against the Qunari people in Kirkwall, and had succeeded when the Qunari finally retaliated. With so many death in Kirkwall including the son of the Viscount and then the Viscount himself. To see the true corruption of the Chantry is when you side with this psychopath woman.  Elthina lightly punishes her by demoting her from her mother status to sister instead of sentencing this woman to death for her crimes against the city.

[Lord Raijin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Guilt by association?

The only indoctrination is the one in your head. your desire to free the mages is such that everything that doesn't favor your twistel little worldview is chantry propaganda". Anyone that disagrees is "brainwashed" and "a legitimate target". So cute.

Then I will apply the same reasoning to mages. Ergo, all are guilty.

You obviously have no idea how much influence religion can impact people and their daily lives and if you paid any attention to what is going on in Thedas you'll realize that the Chantry has a huge impact over people... especially mages. The Chantry indocrinates people so they can grow in power and influence. They will spread fear for support.

It's not lack of compassion that prompts people to side with keepign the Circels and not allowing the mages to go free.
It's not allowing our emotions and bias to cloud our judgment.

I'm not anti Circle as it's important for all mages to go to study and to proprly learn how to wield their Maker's given gift on a voluntary basis, but keeping them locked away is cruel and unusal. This prevents non-mages parents like the Arl of redcliffe and Meredith's parents from doing the right thing and taking their mage children to the Circle. If you're deemed to be sane and want to help society by serving man with your gift I don't seem a problem with it at all.

Look at the situation with Anders from DA2. He was serving man with his Makers gift by offering free healing at his clinic as an apostate with his healing powers whereas the Chantry did not help the poor refugees.

This proves that Mages can be free and co-exist with society. None-mages were actually protesting Anders from the templars in Lowtown, and was willing to fight to the death to keep him safe. He was well liked in the poor part of the city.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Guilt by association?

The only indoctrination is the one in your head. your desire to free the mages is such that everything that doesn't favor your twistel little worldview is chantry propaganda". Anyone that disagrees is "brainwashed" and "a legitimate target". So cute.

Then I will apply the same reasoning to mages. Ergo, all are guilty.

You obviously have no idea how much influence religion can impact people and their daily lives and if you paid any attention to what is going on in Thedas you'll realize that the Chantry has a huge impact over people... especially mages. The Chantry indocrinates people so they can grow in power and influence. They will spread fear for support.

It's not lack of compassion that prompts people to side with keepign the Circels and not allowing the mages to go free.
It's not allowing our emotions and bias to cloud our judgment.

I'm not anti Circle as it's important for all mages to go to study and to proprly learn how to wield their Maker's given gift on a voluntary basis, but keeping them locked away is cruel and unusal. This prevents non-mages parents like the Arl of redcliffe and Meredith's parents from doing the right thing and taking their mage children to the Circle. If you're deemed to be sane and want to help society by serving man with your gift I don't seem a problem with it at all.

Look at the situation with Anders from DA2. He was serving man with his Makers gift by offering free healing at his clinic as an apostate with his healing powers whereas the Chantry did not help the poor refugees.

This proves that Mages can be free and co-exist with society. None-mages were actually protesting Anders from the templars in Lowtown, and was willing to fight to the death to keep him safe. He was well liked in the poor part of the city.

Not all of the Chantry is so subversive. Heck, Justinia helped the mages to escape in Asunder.
As long as zealotry has no place in the Chantry in the future, I am personally fine with it.

As for Meredith's sister, I don't think that her parents or anyone else necessarily knew about her powers. I had thought that she had simply manifested, and had then become possessed. 

[Lord Raijin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Just because you find it hard to belive, doesn't make it impossible.

Elthina herself said to Hawke that he is overestimating her power. She was a mediator. A nautral party.
Unfortunately both Meredith and Orsino were bonkers.

If Orsino and Meredith were getting out of control Elthina could still be on the neutral party as she could very well send a letter to the Divine asking for assistance from the Seekers to deal with the situation with Meredith and Orsino.

Not only would they deal with Meredith and templars like Alrik and Karras but they can also deal with cunning apostates whos running a mock in the city. It would be that simple.

[The Hierophant]

@eluvianix - Meredith stated that her parents believed her sister was fragile and couldn't survive in the Circle.

[Cainhurst Crow]

The Hierophant wrote...

@eluvianix - Meredith stated that her parents believed her sister was fragile and couldn't survive in the Circle.

And then it turned out she wasn't fragile enough to not get possessed and become a killing machine. Go figure.

Then again, when a possessed cat can kill 3 templars, it's no real wonder what a mage girl could do.

[Hellion Rex]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

@eluvianix - Meredith stated that her parents believed her sister was fragile and couldn't survive in the Circle.

And then it turned out she wasn't fragile enough to not get possessed and become a killing machine. Go figure.

Then again, when a possessed cat can kill 3 templars, it's no real wonder what a mage girl could do.

It seems like she could grown into a powerful mage to have created an abomination so strong.

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...
Not all of the Chantry is so subversive. Heck, Justinia helped the mages to escape in Asunder.
As long as zealotry has no place in the Chantry in the future, I am personally fine with it.

As for Meredith's sister, I don't think that her parents or anyone else necessarily knew about her powers. I had thought that she had simply manifested, and had then become possessed. 

I haven't read Asunder yet but if Justinia actually assisted the mages with good intentions then she has earned my respect as a pro-mage. Perhabs in time I will become pro-Chantry with people like Justinia running the Chantry, and with less people like Meredith controling the Templar order.

Yes Meredith parents and Meredith knew that their daughter/Sister was a mage, and knew that she would not pass their rigorous tests and therefour purposely sheltered her from the templars.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Not all of the Chantry is so subversive. Heck, Justinia helped the mages to escape in Asunder.
As long as zealotry has no place in the Chantry in the future, I am personally fine with it.

As for Meredith's sister, I don't think that her parents or anyone else necessarily knew about her powers. I had thought that she had simply manifested, and had then become possessed. 

I haven't read Asunder yet but if Justinia actually assisted the mages with good intentions then she has earned my respect as a pro-mage. Perhabs in time I will become pro-Chantry with people like Justinia running the Chantry, and with less people like Meredith controling the Templar order.

Yes Meredith parents and Meredith knew that their daughter/Sister was a mage, and knew that she would not pass their rigorous tests and therefour purposely sheltered her from the templars.

Yeah. Read Asunder. I actually liked how Justinia was portrayed, and the rest of the book was great too. 

But yeah, I relistened to the conversation with Meredith on YT.