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[Shadow Fox]

After the Keeper spilled the beans It needed to fight to protect itself

[Xilizhra]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

After the Keeper spilled the beans It needed to fight to protect itself

Then it would have seized control far earlier and left camp, probably before Hawke and Merrill even arrived.

Come to think of it, if Marethari had any control at all, why didn't she just kill herself if that would banish Audacity?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 29 octobre 2013 - 08:57 .

[Ianamus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

After the Keeper spilled the beans It needed to fight to protect itself

Then it would have seized control far earlier and left camp, probably before Hawke and Merrill even arrived.

Come to think of it, if Marethari had any control at all, why didn't she just kill herself if that would banish Audacity?

The fact she was standing awkwardly and her voice was strained implied that it was a tremendous effort to keep the demon at bay. She probably couldn't kill herself or control her body to a large extent, only speak to Merrill and Hawke briefly when they arrived and then get taken over. 

I am certain that it was Marethari, and certain Merrills mirror would have spawned a demon that would have sacked Kirkwall had she finished it as the demon intended. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

I am kinda surprised so many utterly belive Merril.

Metharari is far older and more experienced - and she knows more of elven history and magic.
Why do people so quickly dismiss her fear of the mirror and the taint and so quckly call Merril an expert?
Now I love Merril as much as the next guy, but let's be honest here..

[Reaverwind]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I am kinda surprised so many utterly belive Merril.

Metharari is far older and more experienced - and she knows more of elven history and magic.
Why do people so quickly dismiss her fear of the mirror and the taint and so quckly call Merril an expert?
Now I love Merril as much as the next guy, but let's be honest here..

*shrug* They both needed a Sword of Mercy rammed through their chests.

[Xilizhra]

The fact she was standing awkwardly and her voice was strained implied that it was a tremendous effort to keep the demon at bay. She probably couldn't kill herself or control her body to a large extent, only speak to Merrill and Hawke briefly when they arrived and then get taken over.

And yet, there was no sign of any strain when she was possessed earlier, which you've never been able to adequately explain.

I am certain that it was Marethari, and certain Merrills mirror would have spawned a demon that would have sacked Kirkwall had she finished it as the demon intended.

Then you trust abominations to a curious extent.

Metharari is far older and more experienced - and she knows more of elven history and magic.

And had never heard of Eluvians before the Dalish origin, and never did any work in researching them directly.

Why do people so quickly dismiss her fear of the mirror and the taint and so quckly call Merril an expert?

Anders can prove instantly that the mirror isn't tainted.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Merrill is a companion and metharari isn't. That's about the only reason people trust merrill over her.

[Wulfram]

I don't really trust either of them over the other, but Marethari never really presents any real arguments until she's already got herself possessed, which calls into question her judgement.

[Lord Raijin]

EJ107 wrote...

"I tried to have sympathy! Maker knows, I've tried! But how can we allow them freedom when so many would use it to commit atrocities? They control minds, they become abominations, they began the Blight itself!"

I really like Meredith too, as a character. I wish she was more prominent in the game from earlier on, when she was less paranoid. probably the most tragic charcter in Dragon Age 2. 

I wish she could return in DAI. That would blow everyones mind away, if it happen

[Lord Raijin]

EJ107 wrote...
But Merrill began learning a type of magic that not only is outlawed by the chantry- the leading body on the contient, but also increases risk of possesion for any mage who learns it. 

Not only was she putting the clan at risk by increasing the chance she would become an abomination and cosorting with demons, but she also increased the chance that the Templars would come into conflict with the clan, if it was discovered that one of their mages were a blood mage.

Howevermuch Merrill chose to think and claim her actions weren't hurting or endangering the clan they definately were. 

Merrill is a Dalish elf. They do not follow the rules of the Chantry so blood magic is allowed in the Dalish culture. They need whatever they can get their hands on to defend their clan against the Chantry and their templars. Blood magic is a tool and the dalish mage who uses it will decide for themselves if their strong will to resist demonic possession.

[Lord Raijin]

Reaverwind wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

This thread has gone off the rails, fell, landed on another rail, went along that for a while, and then jumped the rails again.

Welcome to the free fall.

And got better every time.

Not if one is interested in discussing anything other than how hard done by mages are and how evit the templars/chantry are. In fact, I'm guessing this it exactly what happened to the first thread. I swear, by the time the game is released, I'm going to be all for gutting mages on sight, lol.

Join the club!

And I'd be

jonesing to kill me some templars as a mage. It goes both ways you know

[Lord Raijin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
She joined in Kirkwall, she created the power struggle by clamping down after the Viscount's death, and attacked a group of people that had nothing to do with the Chantry explosion.

Meh. The Circle was a lost cause before Anders anyway


Meredith rules, mages drool.

What really happen... Bioware decided to cut this scene out, as always!

[Lord Raijin]

cjones91 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
She joined in Kirkwall, she created the power struggle by clamping down after the Viscount's death, and attacked a group of people that had nothing to do with the Chantry explosion.

Meh. The Circle was a lost cause before Anders anyway


Meredith rules, mages drool.

Meredith would have been removed from power if Anders had'nt blown up the only person who could do it.

Elthina had no intention of removing Meredith from power.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Metharari is far older and more experienced - and she knows more of elven history and magic.

And had never heard of Eluvians before the Dalish origin, and never did any work in researching them directly.

And Merril has? Tell me, from where does Merril know all that?
What research? From what sources?

Why do people so quickly dismiss her fear of the mirror and the taint and so quckly call Merril an expert?

Anders can prove instantly that the mirror isn't tainted.

Well, for one Anders is an idiot, and for two, that doesn't prove the mirror isn't dangerous.
Who knows where it leads? Who knows what it's powers are? For all you know, the second Merill activates it it may let the taint trough the portal. Or demons.

[Xilizhra]

And Merril has? Tell me, from where does Merril know all that?
What research? From what sources?

The game doesn't say, but the Dalish have definitely written books on it.

Well, for one Anders is an idiot, and for two, that doesn't prove the mirror isn't dangerous.
Who knows where it leads? Who knows what it's powers are? For all you know, the second Merill activates it it may let the taint trough the portal. Or demons.

It did neither in Witch Hunt.

[dragonflight288]

Ultimately, in the end, I feel like the debate on who's right and who's wrong between Merrill and Merethari is pointless, and for one good reason that many people gloss over, while acknowledging.

It was Merethari, this so called expert that people put their faith in, who gets possessed, and not Merrill. It is Merethari who became the abomination.

[dragonflight288]

Lord Raijin wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
She joined in Kirkwall, she created the power struggle by clamping down after the Viscount's death, and attacked a group of people that had nothing to do with the Chantry explosion.

Meh. The Circle was a lost cause before Anders anyway


Meredith rules, mages drool.

Meredith would have been removed from power if Anders had'nt blown up the only person who could do it.

Elthina had no intention of removing Meredith from power.

Nope. She was content to sit on her hands and pray the situation away

[cjones91]

Lord Raijin wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
She joined in Kirkwall, she created the power struggle by clamping down after the Viscount's death, and attacked a group of people that had nothing to do with the Chantry explosion.

Meh. The Circle was a lost cause before Anders anyway


Meredith rules, mages drool.

Meredith would have been removed from power if Anders had'nt blown up the only person who could do it.

Elthina had no intention of removing Meredith from power.

She would have been forced to act as a result of Meredith going crazy overtime.

[dragonflight288]

cjones91 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
She joined in Kirkwall, she created the power struggle by clamping down after the Viscount's death, and attacked a group of people that had nothing to do with the Chantry explosion.

Meh. The Circle was a lost cause before Anders anyway


Meredith rules, mages drool.

Meredith would have been removed from power if Anders had'nt blown up the only person who could do it.

Elthina had no intention of removing Meredith from power.

She would have been forced to act as a result of Meredith going crazy overtime.

If the Divine didn't act first...which was a very real possibility.

[cjones91]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Ultimately, in the end, I feel like the debate on who's right and who's wrong between Merrill and Merethari is pointless, and for one good reason that many people gloss over, while acknowledging.

It was Merethari, this so called expert that people put their faith in, who gets possessed, and not Merrill. It is Merethari who became the abomination.

And many people seem to believe the words of a demon to a surprising degree.

[Wulfram]

cjones91 wrote...
She would have been forced to act as a result of Meredith going crazy overtime.

Or the Divine might have acted for her

[cjones91]

dragonflight288 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
She joined in Kirkwall, she created the power struggle by clamping down after the Viscount's death, and attacked a group of people that had nothing to do with the Chantry explosion.

Meh. The Circle was a lost cause before Anders anyway


Meredith rules, mages drool.

Meredith would have been removed from power if Anders had'nt blown up the only person who could do it.

Elthina had no intention of removing Meredith from power.

She would have been forced to act as a result of Meredith going crazy overtime.

If the Divine didn't act first...which was a very real possibility.

Either way...Meredith would have been removed from the picture regardless.

[DKJaigen]

The problem is not Meredith. The problem is the system the Templar order has created that allowed Meredith into a position of power . their are not enough internal regulators or self purifying progresses. As result massive amount of corruption and incompetence plagues the Templar order.
No matter if Meredith is removed another Meredith will simply take her place.

[Lord Raijin]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Nope. She was content to sit on her hands and pray the situation away

That was her plan all this time.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Lord Raijin wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
But Merrill began learning a type of magic that not only is outlawed by the chantry- the leading body on the contient, but also increases risk of possesion for any mage who learns it. 

Not only was she putting the clan at risk by increasing the chance she would become an abomination and cosorting with demons, but she also increased the chance that the Templars would come into conflict with the clan, if it was discovered that one of their mages were a blood mage.

Howevermuch Merrill chose to think and claim her actions weren't hurting or endangering the clan they definately were. 

Merrill is a Dalish elf. They do not follow the rules of the Chantry so blood magic is allowed in the Dalish culture. They need whatever they can get their hands on to defend their clan against the Chantry and their templars. Blood magic is a tool and the dalish mage who uses it will decide for themselves if their strong will to resist demonic possession.

Blood magic is seemingly taboo in Dalish culture too. Marethari said the mirror led Merrill to blood magic like it was an inherently bad thing and all her clan wanted to avoid her and Hahren Paivel described the Tevinter Imperium as "a terrible empire build on the darkest magic."