4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again, PROVE that that hapened.
PROVE why would the Warden would even care about the "big fuss".
PRVOE why the Chatnry would even care about Anders, who is just one insignificant mage at that point or why it would be willing to cause that fuss over anders?
It's only Anderses ego and paraanoia that had him think he was sooo important to the Chantry that they couldn't let him go.

I would say that Ser Rylock's constant hounding of him proves that the Chantry would not just let him go.

That doesn't prove anything.
Try again.

Excuse me? How in the world does it not? Considering Rylock was sent to hunt him down, I would think that the Chantry would like to apprehend him.
She even says "The Chantry supercedes the Crown in this matter." to Alistair, and it demonstrates how the Chantry wants him back.

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again, PROVE that that hapened.
PROVE why would the Warden would even care about the "big fuss".
PRVOE why the Chatnry would even care about Anders, who is just one insignificant mage at that point or why it would be willing to cause that fuss over anders?
It's only Anderses ego and paraanoia that had him think he was sooo important to the Chantry that they couldn't let him go.

I would say that Ser Rylock's constant hounding of him proves that the Chantry would not just let him go.

That doesn't prove anything.
Try again.

It proves that some templars are arrogant enough to think they can attack the most important person in Fereldan(if the Warden is alive) and get away with it because they feel their above any authority.The Chantry would have secretly condoned sending a templar spy in if it meant keeping tabs on all of the apostates among the Grey Warden ranks.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...
Because their mages can walk around without someone watching them?

Who told you no one is watching them.

Because they are fine with blood mages within their ranks?

So? I can have a wild tiger within my ranks if it's usefull, doens't mean I trust it.
But poeple being people end up doing stupid things and downplay the danger because of emotional attachments. And end up dead.

As for the second part....Rylock and several templars were hounding Anders from the get go and were willing to attack the Warden if he/she refused to hand them over.It's perfectly reasonable that from those events the Chantry would continue to hound Anders because he was a wanted apostate.

Rylock does not represent the chantry. Stop with the stupid strawmen.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
And all things considered, the Divine did her job. She helped the mages who she felt were being oppressed during Lambert's lockdown when Pharamond was retrieved.

So, the well being of the dozen First Enchanters Lambert imprisioned takes precedence over the lives of the thousands that will die in this war?

[LOLandStuff]

Rylock went rogue just to hunt down Anders. That Chantry comment was used as an excuse to get him. She was bat**** obsessed with getting him no mater what, believing he killed his templar guards.

[Lotion Soronarr]

eluvianix wrote...
The question remains: at what point, what line, do we differentiate Wynne's type of possession from Anders. But otherwise, I agree with what you said.

Typo. It should have said there ISNT a merger. Not really.

But as I told you before, technicly one could label her an abomination. Templars would probably kill her, or put her under observation. I really don't know what they would do, but killing her would be a valid response.

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Because their mages can walk around without someone watching them?

Who told you no one is watching them.

Because they are fine with blood mages within their ranks?

So? I can have a wild tiger within my ranks if it's usefull, doens't mean I trust it.
But poeple being people end up doing stupid things and downplay the danger because of emotional attachments. And end up dead.

As for the second part....Rylock and several templars were hounding Anders from the get go and were willing to attack the Warden if he/she refused to hand them over.It's perfectly reasonable that from those events the Chantry would continue to hound Anders because he was a wanted apostate.

Rylock does not represent the chantry. Stop with the stupid strawmen.

Rylock said she was sent on behalf of the Chantry to catch Anders so it's not a strawman.The Warden Mages are free to move around without anyone watching them because they are above Chantry law.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
And all things considered, the Divine did her job. She helped the mages who she felt were being oppressed during Lambert's lockdown when Pharamond was retrieved.

So, the well being of the dozen First Enchanters Lambert imprisioned takes precedence over the lives of the thousands that will die in this war?

Why should the few suffer to please the many? 
Edit: This war was begun by both sides. Were the Enchanters in the tower just supposed to sit there and wait to be slaughtered?

Modifié par eluvianix, 31 octobre 2013 - 06:28 .

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
And all things considered, the Divine did her job. She helped the mages who she felt were being oppressed during Lambert's lockdown when Pharamond was retrieved.

So, the well being of the dozen First Enchanters Lambert imprisioned takes precedence over the lives of the thousands that will die in this war?

The only reason those people will die is because Lambert and Andrian pushed it too far.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

Rylock said she was sent on behalf of the Chantry to catch Anders so it's not a strawman.The Warden Mages are free to move around without anyone watching them because they are above Chantry law.

And you belive everying anyone sez immediately, no questions asked?
If that's the case, I have a bridge to mexico I want to sell to you.

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
And all things considered, the Divine did her job. She helped the mages who she felt were being oppressed during Lambert's lockdown when Pharamond was retrieved.

So, the well being of the dozen First Enchanters Lambert imprisioned takes precedence over the lives of the thousands that will die in this war?

Why should the few suffer to please the many? 
Edit: This war was begun by both sides. Were the Enchanters in the tower just supposed to sit there and wait to be slaughtered?

That's the Pro Templar logic:The minority should be mistreated to safeguard the majority.Personally I don't agree with majority rule and will not let innocents suffer because the majority said so.

[Lotion Soronarr]

eluvianix wrote...
This war was begun by both sides. Were the Enchanters in the tower just supposed to sit there and wait to be slaughtered?

The Enchanters were suposeed to discuss improvements to the Circles, NOT plot secession, NOT hide abominations/demons and NOT murder their fellow mages.

[LOLandStuff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Rylock said she was sent on behalf of the Chantry to catch Anders so it's not a strawman.The Warden Mages are free to move around without anyone watching them because they are above Chantry law.

And you belive everying anyone sez immediately, no questions asked?
If that's the case, I have a bridge to mexico I want to sell to you.

How much for it?
Wood or concrete?

[HiroVoid]

Wait. Is Rylock the Grey Warden in Awakening? No offense, but I'd honestly say she had every right to attack the Grey Wardens after the Grey Warden Commander blatantly went into the warehouse where the Chantry's blood tracker bottles were completely going against the Grey Warden's neutrality pact. Any Grey Warden that actually wanted to keep to that philosiphy would have told Anders 'no' the moment he asked about it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

That's the Pro Templar logic:The minority should be mistreated to safeguard the majority.Personally I don't agree with majority rule and will not let innocents suffer because the majority said so.

Yes, you would rather have the majority suffer because the minority doesn't feel appreciated enough.

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
This war was begun by both sides. Were the Enchanters in the tower just supposed to sit there and wait to be slaughtered?

The Enchanters were suposeed to discuss improvements to the Circles, NOT plot secession, NOT hide abominations/demons and NOT murder their fellow mages.

Only one did the actual murder and the vote for separation would have been overruled if the meeting continued.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
Why should the few suffer to please the many? 
Edit: This war was begun by both sides. Were the Enchanters in the tower just supposed to sit there and wait to be slaughtered?

Because it's preferable for a dozen people to be made Tranquil (if at all) than for thousands of people to be killed.

And you said that Justinia did her duty. I'd say she completely failed in every duty ever pilled upon her the moment she assisted one of the sides in starting a war.

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
And all things considered, the Divine did her job. She helped the mages who she felt were being oppressed during Lambert's lockdown when Pharamond was retrieved.

So, the well being of the dozen First Enchanters Lambert imprisioned takes precedence over the lives of the thousands that will die in this war?

Why should the few suffer to please the many? 
Edit: This war was begun by both sides. Were the Enchanters in the tower just supposed to sit there and wait to be slaughtered?

That's the Pro Templar logic:The minority should be mistreated to safeguard the majority.Personally I don't agree with majority rule and will not let innocents suffer because the majority said so.

 I agree. I could not let the minority suffer just to keep the majority "safe".

[Lotion Soronarr]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Rylock said she was sent on behalf of the Chantry to catch Anders so it's not a strawman.The Warden Mages are free to move around without anyone watching them because they are above Chantry law.

And you belive everying anyone sez immediately, no questions asked?
If that's the case, I have a bridge to mexico I want to sell to you.

How much for it?
Wood or concrete?

From gold-pressed latinum actually. A revolutionary hanging bridge design. and I will sell it for... ONE MILLION DOLLAZ!

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

That's the Pro Templar logic:The minority should be mistreated to safeguard the majority.Personally I don't agree with majority rule and will not let innocents suffer because the majority said so.

Yes, you would rather have the majority suffer because the minority doesn't feel appreciated enough.

Nope,like I said the majority does'nt get to sit back and let innocents suffer just because it makes them feel better.

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

That's the Pro Templar logic:The minority should be mistreated to safeguard the majority.Personally I don't agree with majority rule and will not let innocents suffer because the majority said so.

Yes, you would rather have the majority suffer because the minority doesn't feel appreciated enough.

That is total crap Lotion. The minority in this game simply does not want to be oppressed and hated for being born as they are.
It has nothing to do with "appreciation"

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Enchanters were suposeed to discuss improvements to the Circles, NOT plot secession, NOT hide abominations/demons and NOT murder their fellow mages.

Only one did the actual murder and the vote for separation would have been overruled if the meeting continued.

And when the tempalrs came in to arrest that murderer and when they revealed the demon they harbored, the mages attacked.

Yeah, I'd say Lambert had EVERY right to lock them all up untill he figured up who was involed in the murders and the friggin DEMON.

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
This war was begun by both sides. Were the Enchanters in the tower just supposed to sit there and wait to be slaughtered?

The Enchanters were suposeed to discuss improvements to the Circles, NOT plot secession, NOT hide abominations/demons and NOT murder their fellow mages.

Only one did the actual murder and the vote for separation would have been overruled if the meeting continued.

Hold up. How in the world did they hide any abominations? And so because Adrian did something stupid and killed Pharamond, the rest should suffer?

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
And all things considered, the Divine did her job. She helped the mages who she felt were being oppressed during Lambert's lockdown when Pharamond was retrieved.

So, the well being of the dozen First Enchanters Lambert imprisioned takes precedence over the lives of the thousands that will die in this war?

Why should the few suffer to please the many? 
Edit: This war was begun by both sides. Were the Enchanters in the tower just supposed to sit there and wait to be slaughtered?

That's the Pro Templar logic:The minority should be mistreated to safeguard the majority.Personally I don't agree with majority rule and will not let innocents suffer because the majority said so.

 I agree. I could not let the minority suffer just to keep the majority "safe".

Exactly,and majority rule has often led to atrocities being commited while they looked the other way.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...
Hold. What was this other "rebellion" against her organization. Are you referring to both Anders and then the events of White Spire?
And no, playing both sides isn't incompetent. It's pretty smart, and probably the only way she can stay in power after all of this mess. She can agree that the Circles need reforming and still agree that Mages need to be watched.
What I think makes her a good Divine is that she mentions in Asunder that the Templars have a duty  to BOTH the mages and the citizens of Thedas - to protect Thedas from magic's dangers and protect the mages from Thedas' ire.

The mages and the Templars. It is smart if it works, if you have the gravitas to pull it off. If you don't however, it simply shows how completely incompetent you were at gauging the political landscape. And if you are in a posistion of leadership and commits such a bludner, a lot of people ends up suffering.
Whatever she felt about the Circles are now completely irrelevant since they ceased to exist, and she can't order the Templars around since she lost their respect and they left her. She has left the Chantry crippled, bloodied and broken, and has nothing to show for it. She is an utter disgrace to the Chantry. Useless.
The Divine might have the heart at the right place. But sadly such an attribute is wasted on leaders, since that just means they won't be able to make the hard choices.