465 réponses à ce sujet

[111987]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Anyone who thinks synthesis is paragon has no concept of bioethics and basic human rights...
It is by far the most abhorrent thing you can do in the trilogy...

Synthesis = altruistic idealism

Paragon = altruistic idealism


Please tell me how Synthesis is NOT Paragon (our personal headcanon of Synthesis is no valid argument).

I have to agree. Synthesis does seem like a Paragon choice.

Especially considering how Paragon choices end up being the 'best' choice, and Synthesis is considered (by Bioware) to be the best ending.

[David7204]

Or perhaps playing Bioshock?

[dreamgazer]

Guys, outside of the acknowledged difference between the two Control ending states, the arbitrary morality system effectively means zilch once you get into the decision chamber. Each choice has elements of moral superiority and the end justifying the means, depending on the player's individual outlook---as if it weren't obvious by the range of responses.

You can speculate and interpret until you turn purple (nudge nudge, wink wink), but there aren't any correct answers to this.

[The Heretic of Time]

Bill Casey wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Synthesis = altruistic idealism

IT'S RAPE

No it isn't. You don't even know what "rape" means.

[Bill Casey]

In all honesty, the people defending synthesis as a virtuous action have tested my will to live over the last year. I can't believe that there are people that are like this. I can only assume that some of these people are not trolls, and legitimately think that messing around with other people's bodies like this is okay...

My faith in the human race has dipped dramatically...

[The Heretic of Time]

Bill Casey wrote...

In all honesty, the people defending synthesis as a virtuous action have tested my will to live over the last year. I can't believe that there are people that are like this. I can only assume that some of these people are not trolls, and legitimately think that messing around with other people's bodies like this is okay...

My faith in the human race has dipped dramatically...

Calm your ******, we're just talking about a crappy ending to a crappy video-game, your life doesn't depend on it  (or at least it shouldn't, lol).


Also, "messing around with other people's bodies" is not what synthesis is about, and it's not evil if it genuinely makes life better.

According to your silly logic, vaccinations (which are mandatory, every human being is forced to get them as a baby/child/teen) are also evil. So, do you? Do you think vaccinations are evil?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 26 juin 2013 - 06:39 .

[Ravensword]

Bill Casey wrote...

In all honesty, the people defending synthesis as a virtuous action have tested my will to live over the last year. I can't believe that there are people that are like this. I can only assume that some of these people are not trolls, and legitimately think that messing around with other people's bodies like this is okay...

My faith in the human race has dipped dramatically...

You must be referring to Auldie and Seival.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Bill Casey wrote...

In all honesty, the people defending synthesis as a virtuous action have tested my will to live over the last year. I can't believe that there are people that are like this. I can only assume that some of these people are not trolls, and legitimately think that messing around with other people's bodies like this is okay...

My faith in the human race has dipped dramatically...

Meh. Bodily autonomy takes a backseat to a chance to turn everyone into immortal cyborgs.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Bill Casey wrote...

In all honesty, the people defending synthesis as a virtuous action have tested my will to live over the last year. I can't believe that there are people that are like this. I can only assume that some of these people are not trolls, and legitimately think that messing around with other people's bodies like this is okay...

My faith in the human race has dipped dramatically...

For someone who touts "basic human rights" you sure hate the basic right to an opinion.

If you will to live depends on a race of ~7 billion people sharing your views, your odds are pretty bad.

Not to mention you defending an action that messes up people's bodies even worse than Sync does (Refuse)!

[Bill Casey]

The worst part is they don't think they're raping you...

[KaiserShep]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

According to your silly logic, vaccinations (which are mandatory, every human being is forced to get them as a baby/child/teen) are also evil. So, do you? Do you think vaccinations are evil?

I can't say that these are really comparable, as a vaccine does not change the fundamental makeup of the body; it merely stimulates the body's natural response to antigens without causing a disease. That said, vaccines go through a testing and approval process before being implemented, so it's not as though someone just conjures up an elixir to cure our ails, and just dole it out to the masses without having some kind of hard data to determine its outcome. Urgency may take precedence, but all things considered, if I had to choose between simply eradicating the threat, rather than doling out a completely untested, magical cure to resolve the situation, I'd choose the former without hesitation.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 juin 2013 - 06:44 .

[Bill Casey]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Not to mention you defending an action that messes up people's bodies even worse than Sync does (Refuse)!

No, I'm not...
I reject Bioware's ending...
We don't have to abandon our ethics to achieve...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 juin 2013 - 06:44 .

[The Heretic of Time]

KaiserShep wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

According to your silly logic, vaccinations (which are mandatory, every human being is forced to get them as a baby/child/teen) are also evil. So, do you? Do you think vaccinations are evil?

I can't say that these are really comparable, as a vaccine does not change the fundamental makeup of the body; it merely stimulates the body's natural response to antigens without causing a disease. That said, vaccines go through a testing and approval process before being implemented, so it's not as though someone just conjures up an elixir to cure our ails, and just dole it out to the masses without having some kind of hard data to determine its outcome. Urgency may take precedence, but all things considered, if I had to choose between simply eradicating the threat, rather than doling out a completely untested, magical cure, I'd choose eradication every time.

That is all true, and I was never arguing that Synthesis is the best choice, or even a wise choise at all. I'm merely stating the fact that Synthesis isn't inherently evil. It actually is the most Paragon ending of all 3 available endings.

[KaiserShep]

Refuse is still an ending you choose. You simply chose the one with the greatest body count. A real rejection of Bioware's ending would be to either not play through to the end, or install MEHEM, if you can.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Bill Casey wrote...

The worst part is they don't think they're raping you...

If bodily change passes for rape then it just makes your precious Refuse even worse! 

Refuse is literally that and a slide of slavery.

Reapers use both dead and alive bodies, so there's no escaping it, either.

Bill Casey wrote...

No, I'm not...
I reject Bioware's ending...
We don't have to abandon our ethics to achieve...

If your ethics don't allow you to save life, your ethics suck.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 26 juin 2013 - 06:55 .

[Bill Casey]

KaiserShep wrote...

Refuse is still an ending you choose. You simply chose the one with the greatest body count. A real rejection of Bioware's ending would be to either not play through to the end, or install MEHEM, if you can.

I don't play Mass Effect any more...
And I reject the notion that we lose in Refuse...
I reject that those are the crucible options, I reject the star child...
I reject all of it...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 juin 2013 - 06:56 .

[KaiserShep]

You're right that not everyone dies in refuse, because the reapers left the Yagh alone. Humans are definitely extinct though. Rejection won't change that.

[Bill Casey]

Bioware is wrong...

[KaiserShep]

Wrong about what exactly?

[Cobalt2113]

Bill Casey wrote...

I don't play Mass Effect any more...
And I reject the notion that we lose in Refuse...
I reject that those are the crucible options, I reject the star child...
I reject all of it...

Ok that's fine, but that kinda disqualifies you from this discussion doesn't it?

If you've rejected the very fact that synthesis even exists as one of the options, you can't really discuss the merits or morality of it can you?

[Bill Casey]

KaiserShep wrote...

Wrong about what exactly?

That we must commit atrocities to achieve...

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Bill Casey wrote...

NO I'M NOT ****ING OKAY.
NIETZSCHEAN PARASITES HAVE POISONED THE GODDAMN WELL OF THIS FRANCHISE AND SUCKED ITS SOUL OUT THROUGH ITS **** INTO A GRAY ABYSS OF MEANINGLESS GARBAGE.

CAPS LOCK CAN MAKE ANY STATEMENT LOOK RIDICULOUS!!!!

I LIKE PIE!


Seriously though you need some therapy or something.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Billy boy you need to stop putting ellipses onto the end of every damn thing you post.

It's more than a little silly.

[The Heretic of Time]

Bill Casey wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Wrong about what exactly?

That we must commit atrocities to achieve...

If you want to be the goody-two-shoes Paragon angel but you don't like Synthesis, choose Control, no "autrocity" there.

Or are you now saying that taking control of the reapers and using them to rebuild the galaxy is also an "atrocity"? 

[jtav]

And for the love of God, rewriting the heretics is a Paragon choice. It gives 30 Paragon points. Destroying them gives 30 Renegade. Paragon is not "good." It comes in the "save lives no matter what" and "stick to principles no matter what" flavors just as Renegade comes in "practical" and "jerk" flavors.