465 réponses à ce sujet

[Enhanced]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Necanor wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Well actually my Shepard brokers peace and I don't do anything but click on dialogue options.

Yeah ok, I always do the same. Touché.

We cool. 

 Both you made peace on Rannoch and choose Destroy.  Strange choices. So, the Geth end up being nothing more than expendable assets, and the Quarians don't get their immune systems boosted.

Modifié par Enhanced, 26 juin 2013 - 07:34 .

[scootermcgaffin]

They aren't an "expendable asset" they're an "acceptable loss"

The other choices are terrible choices.

[Enhanced]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

They aren't an "expendable asset" they're an "acceptable loss"

The other choices are terrible choices.

Choices that minimize damage and losses are terrible? ok.

[KaiserShep]

I made peace between the geth and Quarians unaware of what was going to happen in the end, so I didn't see them as expendable assets, but rather another race that could potentially join the galactic community, after centuries of conflict and isolation. That wasn't enough to make me willing to pick anything other than eradicating the reapers, so I would have to concur with acceptable loss.

As for the Quarians, they lived for generations with weakened immune systems and survived. With their homeworld retaken, their well being is no longer a concern. The process of redeveloping their immune system will just be slower than it could have been. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 juin 2013 - 07:40 .

[scootermcgaffin]

Enhanced wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

They aren't an "expendable asset" they're an "acceptable loss"

The other choices are terrible choices.

Choices that minimize damage and losses are terrible? ok.

Those specific choices of "Control" and "Synthesis" are terrible choices, yes.

[KaiserShep]

If it was simply a matter of minimizing the damage, then it would be a no-brainer for sure, but it isn't at all. This is why I have trouble applying Paragon or Renegade to these options, though frankly, Refuse just doesn't seem to have anything going for it. There's heaping piles of evidence beforehand that you're absolutely screwed if you pick it, so while the speech might have some paragon-sounding stuff in it, it's just so damn foolish, going way beyond the benign naivety of Paragon's worst examples. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 juin 2013 - 07:53 .

[Bill Casey]

CronoDragoon wrote...

If you're saying this isn't how it works IRL then there's plenty of historical evidence to the contrary.

Whenever we stoop to atrocity, we deny our potential to achieve the extraordinary...
You may have given up hope on our potential to overcome, Bioware may have surrendered to mediocrity, but I have not...

That is not the way the world must work...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 juin 2013 - 08:03 .

[CronoDragoon]

Bill Casey wrote...
Whenever we stoop to atrocity, we deny our potential to achieve the extraordinary...
You may have given up hope on our potential to overcome, Bioware may have surrendered to mediocrity, but I have not...

That is not the way the world must work...

Let me know when you win a war without killing someone.

[Bill Casey]

I already have...
I have defeated Bioware's nietzschean abyss...
And THAT my friends, is the Paragon ending...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 juin 2013 - 08:09 .

[Dextro Milk]

Bill Casey wrote...

I already have...
I have defeated Bioware's nietzschean abyss...
And THAT my friends, is the Paragon ending...

What?

[CronoDragoon]

Bill Casey wrote...

I already have...
I have defeated Bioware's nietzschean abyss...
And THAT my friends, is the Paragon ending...

Do you have, like, any idea who Nietzsche is?

[Bill Casey]

Yes...
Nietzsche once said our morals prevent men from achieving great things...
BioWare apparently agrees...

I say bullcrap...
That's philosophy for the weak willed and uncreative...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 juin 2013 - 08:17 .

[CronoDragoon]

Uncreative? Screw it, I'm not even going to bother.

As your sig says.

[Reorte]

Enhanced wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

They aren't an "expendable asset" they're an "acceptable loss"

The other choices are terrible choices.

Choices that minimize damage and losses are terrible? ok.

The leap of faith required to believe that Control won't result in a hell of a lot more damage in the long run is huge. The wrongs of Synthesis have been discussed ad nauseum.

[Reorte]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
Whenever we stoop to atrocity, we deny our potential to achieve the extraordinary...
You may have given up hope on our potential to overcome, Bioware may have surrendered to mediocrity, but I have not...

That is not the way the world must work...

Let me know when you win a war without killing someone.

It's the people who prevent wars from happening in the first place who have done that.

[AlanC9]

Necanor wrote...

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

Necanor wrote...

If a better way is impossible to achieve, go for the morally best solution(e.g. choosing Quarians over Geth, Destroy over Control, destroy over rewrite). 

I fail to see how these choices are morally superior than their alternatives.

Because Synthetics are simply lesser than organics. 

You humans are all racist.

(I really should keep that video clip handy)

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 juin 2013 - 10:18 .

[AlanC9]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Enhanced wrote...
Choices that minimize damage and losses are terrible? ok.

Those specific choices of "Control" and "Synthesis" are terrible choices, yes.

Why?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Bill Casey wrote...

Yes...
Nietzsche once said our morals prevent men from achieving great things...
BioWare apparently agrees...

I say bullcrap...
That's philosophy for the weak willed and uncreative...

Silly Bill, you are so hopelessly deluded and naive.

It's freaking adorable.

[Uncle Jo]

How people see intentionally seizing absolute power as parangon move is beyond me.

There is no parangon or renegade choice they're all f*cked up.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 26 juin 2013 - 10:21 .

[Enhanced]

Reorte wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

They aren't an "expendable asset" they're an "acceptable loss"

The other choices are terrible choices.

Choices that minimize damage and losses are terrible? ok.

The leap of faith required to believe that Control won't result in a hell of a lot more damage in the long run is huge. The wrongs of Synthesis have been discussed ad nauseum.

I'm not sure what kind of damage you mean. We aren't told about any negative consequences of Control.  But, for Destroy we know what will happen, the immediate loss of more life, and damage to technology. We can headcanon up a few worst case scenerios for each any choice, but personally like to make my decisions based on what the game actually tells us will happen.

Modifié par Enhanced, 26 juin 2013 - 11:40 .

[AlanC9]

Reorte wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
Whenever we stoop to atrocity, we deny our potential to achieve the extraordinary...
You may have given up hope on our potential to overcome, Bioware may have surrendered to mediocrity, but I have not...

That is not the way the world must work...

Let me know when you win a war without killing someone.

It's the people who prevent wars from happening in the first place who have done that.

Well, yeah. Someone, somewhere, could have prevented any bad situation you're in from arising. 

That says nothing whatsoever about the particular choices available at a particular time to a particular person. Maybe she's got a good solution available. Maybe she doesn't.

[AlanC9]

Uncle Jo wrote...

How people see intentionally seizing absolute power as parangon move is beyond me. .

It's not rocket science. Like other Paragon choices, Control avoids a short term loss by running a long-term risk.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

How people see intentionally seizing absolute power as parangon move is beyond me. .

It's not rocket science. Like other Paragon choices, Control avoids a short term loss by running a long-term risk.

IS that seriously all you see Paragon acts as?  

[Sir DeLoria]

AlanC9 wrote...

You humans are all racist.

(I really should keep that video clip handy)

I'm saying that in the name of the Quarians:D

Modifié par Necanor, 26 juin 2013 - 10:27 .

[jtav]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

[quote]Uncle Jo wrote...

How people see intentionally seizing absolute power as parangon move is beyond me. .[/quote]

It's not rocket science. Like other Paragon choices, Control avoids a short term loss by running a long-term risk.
[/quote]

IS that seriously all you see Paragon acts as?  

[/quoteA major aspect, thereof, yes. Paragons upend the popular will all the time--if you'd taken a vote on the genophage, the krogan would be extinct. And Paragon!Control talks about all having a voice in their future.

So noe. No issue with Control here.