So YES, by rules of this story, endowing the Catalyst with Shepard's memories effectively makes the Catalyst... Shepard.
I don't agree with it, myself, but to play the game I have to accept their rules.
Modifié par HYR 2.0, 27 juin 2013 - 04:57 .
Control or Refuse for ParagonShep?
Débuté par
jtav
, juin 15 2013 01:05
#451
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 04:57
teh DRUMPf!!
-
- Members
- 9 142 messages
Mass Effect is a sci-fi with its own established rules. One of those rules is that people can be brought back to life if their memories are intact (Shepard/Lazarus, Keiji/Sync epilogue -- Weekes explained the last one... and the Clone in Citadel DLC was not Shepard because it didn't have his/her memories and thus lacked his persona).
So YES, by rules of this story, endowing the Catalyst with Shepard's memories effectively makes the Catalyst... Shepard.
I don't agree with it, myself, but to play the game I have to accept their rules.
So YES, by rules of this story, endowing the Catalyst with Shepard's memories effectively makes the Catalyst... Shepard.
I don't agree with it, myself, but to play the game I have to accept their rules.
Retour en haut
#452
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 06:17
Kel Riever
-
- Members
- 7 065 messages
Well, if I can accept that in the Mass Effect universe, your chest expands when you exhale, and the creators of code can't target specific parts of it, which is WAY beyond the science fiction of even Mass Effect technology, then I stand by that you can make up anything about the game. In fact, the next release of Mass Effect should be a blank disk, where you just imagine all the video game play on it. And then you can download DLC for $10 a shot which also is blank, and you can imagine all the add ons to your blank CD. If you don't, you aren't a fan!
#453
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 06:19
CronoDragoon
-
- Members
- 10 408 messages
Kel Riever wrote...
the creators of code can't target specific parts of it
Can't or won't?
#454
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 06:19
MassivelyEffective0730
-
- Members
- 9 230 messages
HYR 2.0 wrote...
Mass Effect is a sci-fi with its own established rules. One of those rules is that people can be brought back to life if their memories are intact (Shepard/Lazarus, Keiji/Sync epilogue -- Weekes explained the last one... and the Clone in Citadel DLC was not Shepard because it didn't have his/her memories and thus lacked his persona).
So YES, by rules of this story, endowing the Catalyst with Shepard's memories effectively makes the Catalyst... Shepard.
I don't agree with it, myself, but to play the game I have to accept their rules.
Memories and thoughts are one thing. Emotion and personality are another.
Though I agree with what you're saying at the bottom.
Which is odd, because they break their own rules with the ending through the narrative changes. It goes beyond lore. The narrative has to a reasonable causality. The story needs to back up and make sense with the existing story. The ending doesn't do that in a satisfying or reasonable matter.
#455
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 06:45
KaiserShep
-
- Members
- 23 806 messages
As disjointed and vague as some of these rules are, I feel content to ignore a few of them for my own enjoyment. Heck, they ignored some of them, so why can't I?
Modifié par KaiserShep, 27 juin 2013 - 06:45 .
#456
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 06:54
teh DRUMPf!!
-
- Members
- 9 142 messages
[quote]MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
Mass Effect is a sci-fi with its own established rules. One of those rules is that people can be brought back to life if their memories are intact (Shepard/Lazarus, Keiji/Sync epilogue -- Weekes explained the last one... and the Clone in Citadel DLC was not Shepard because it didn't have his/her memories and thus lacked his persona).
So YES, by rules of this story, endowing the Catalyst with Shepard's memories effectively makes the Catalyst... Shepard.
I don't agree with it, myself, but to play the game I have to accept their rules.[/quote]
Memories and thoughts are one thing. Emotion and personality are another.[/quote][/quote]
MEU synthetics have both (personality and emotion).
Granted, they seem to experience it in a different capacity than organics do, but they are not devoid of both.
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
Mass Effect is a sci-fi with its own established rules. One of those rules is that people can be brought back to life if their memories are intact (Shepard/Lazarus, Keiji/Sync epilogue -- Weekes explained the last one... and the Clone in Citadel DLC was not Shepard because it didn't have his/her memories and thus lacked his persona).
So YES, by rules of this story, endowing the Catalyst with Shepard's memories effectively makes the Catalyst... Shepard.
I don't agree with it, myself, but to play the game I have to accept their rules.[/quote]
Memories and thoughts are one thing. Emotion and personality are another.[/quote][/quote]
MEU synthetics have both (personality and emotion).
Granted, they seem to experience it in a different capacity than organics do, but they are not devoid of both.
#457
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 06:57
MassivelyEffective0730
-
- Members
- 9 230 messages
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
[quote]MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
Mass Effect is a sci-fi with its own established rules. One of those rules is that people can be brought back to life if their memories are intact (Shepard/Lazarus, Keiji/Sync epilogue -- Weekes explained the last one... and the Clone in Citadel DLC was not Shepard because it didn't have his/her memories and thus lacked his persona).
So YES, by rules of this story, endowing the Catalyst with Shepard's memories effectively makes the Catalyst... Shepard.
I don't agree with it, myself, but to play the game I have to accept their rules.[/quote]
Memories and thoughts are one thing. Emotion and personality are another.[/quote][/quote]
MEU synthetics have both (personality and emotion).
Granted, they seem to experience it in a different capacity than organics do, but they are not devoid of both.
[/quote]
Yes they do. But as you say, the difference in capacity is something that is rather alien to organics, yet also programmable. I don't think they mean the same to us as compared to organics. The emotions that they might feel are probably feelings that are completely alien to us organics (and vice versa).
[quote]MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
Mass Effect is a sci-fi with its own established rules. One of those rules is that people can be brought back to life if their memories are intact (Shepard/Lazarus, Keiji/Sync epilogue -- Weekes explained the last one... and the Clone in Citadel DLC was not Shepard because it didn't have his/her memories and thus lacked his persona).
So YES, by rules of this story, endowing the Catalyst with Shepard's memories effectively makes the Catalyst... Shepard.
I don't agree with it, myself, but to play the game I have to accept their rules.[/quote]
Memories and thoughts are one thing. Emotion and personality are another.[/quote][/quote]
MEU synthetics have both (personality and emotion).
Granted, they seem to experience it in a different capacity than organics do, but they are not devoid of both.
[/quote]
Yes they do. But as you say, the difference in capacity is something that is rather alien to organics, yet also programmable. I don't think they mean the same to us as compared to organics. The emotions that they might feel are probably feelings that are completely alien to us organics (and vice versa).
#458
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 06:58
MassivelyEffective0730
-
- Members
- 9 230 messages
KaiserShep wrote...
As disjointed and vague as some of these rules are, I feel content to ignore a few of them for my own enjoyment. Heck, they ignored some of them, so why can't I?
True enough.
To put it in arrogant terms, I'm treating my headcanon like the Jeffersonian Bible.
The standard bible = the Mass Effect canon and lore.
#459
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 07:16
Kel Riever
-
- Members
- 7 065 messages
CronoDragoon wrote...
Kel Riever wrote...
the creators of code can't target specific parts of it
Can't or won't?
It actually doesn't matter.
#460
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 07:19
CronoDragoon
-
- Members
- 10 408 messages
Kel Riever wrote...
It actually doesn't matter.
Why doesn't it matter?
#461
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 07:24
SeptimusMagistos
-
- Members
- 1 154 messages
Kel Riever wrote...
Well, if I can accept that in the Mass Effect universe, your chest expands when you exhale, and the creators of code can't target specific parts of it, which is WAY beyond the science fiction of even Mass Effect technology, then I stand by that you can make up anything about the game.
Nope. Only the Mass Effect writers can do that.
#462
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 07:46
Kel Riever
-
- Members
- 7 065 messages
SeptimusMagistos wrote...
Kel Riever wrote...
Well, if I can accept that in the Mass Effect universe, your chest expands when you exhale, and the creators of code can't target specific parts of it, which is WAY beyond the science fiction of even Mass Effect technology, then I stand by that you can make up anything about the game.
Nope. Only the Mass Effect writers can do that.
@Cronodragon: It doesn't matter because whether the Catalyst can't or won't because the premise of that synthetics and organics will always come into conflict is stupid (and no, BioWare doesn't deserve any more critique than that, because their idea isn't complex enough to warrant anything but an insult). So that it can't is just a misinterpretation of a basic understanding of code, and that it wont is just a basic idiocy of Shepard, who wouldn't immediately question that.
If someone told you they couldn't change the direction of which way your car drives, and you didn't ask about the steering wheel, it would be just as dumb.
#463
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 07:58
Nanox Vox
-
- Members
- 40 messages
Well OP, My Shepard is paragon and he chose Synthesis. I guess I must be one of them crazy folks.
#464
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 08:34
CronoDragoon
-
- Members
- 10 408 messages
@ Kel: That assumes that the Catalyst determines how Destroy works, which is not what he says. "The Crucible will not discriminate." It's possible that whoever designed the Crucible made Destroy work that way on purpose; which makes it a different situation than "can't." It also makes Shepard questioning why meaningless; that's just how the thing works.
It's still stupid, of course.
It's still stupid, of course.
#465
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 09:20
Kel Riever
-
- Members
- 7 065 messages
CronoDragoon wrote...
@ Kel: That assumes that the Catalyst determines how Destroy works, which is not what he says. "The Crucible will not discriminate." It's possible that whoever designed the Crucible made Destroy work that way on purpose; which makes it a different situation than "can't." It also makes Shepard questioning why meaningless; that's just how the thing works.
It's still stupid, of course.
I think I have issues more with the people who want to continue on with that the ending(s) make sense. Personal like or dislike is a preference and if people want to suspend (extremely) their sense of disbelief to enjoy the game, then so be it. That's a whole different story.
#466
Posté 27 juin 2013 - 09:34
MassivelyEffective0730
-
- Members
- 9 230 messages
SeptimusMagistos wrote...
Kel Riever wrote...
Well, if I can accept that in the Mass Effect universe, your chest expands when you exhale, and the creators of code can't target specific parts of it, which is WAY beyond the science fiction of even Mass Effect technology, then I stand by that you can make up anything about the game.
Nope. Only the Mass Effect writers can do that.
Screw what SuperMac wants. He's proven his idea behind ME is irrelevant to my story. My story is my own canon.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 27 juin 2013 - 09:42 .
