465 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

jtav wrote...

No, really. I checked. There is a variation almost identical to the Paragon version except Shepard says they want to protect the many instead of save or lead.

But how is that alternate speech triggered?

[jtav]

It was listed as neutral. If I had to guess it would be falling somewhere between 2/3 Paragon and 2/3 Renegade since a friend's mild Renegade still talked about sacrifice.

[knightnblu]

In my opinion, Destroy is the Paragon ending. The problems with Synthesis are numerous and Control does not permanently incapacitate the Reapers because it relies upon Shepard maintaining his sanity for Eon while trapped with an insane AI. Also, both Synthesis and Control allows war criminals to escape the penalties for their crimes. Therefore, Destroy is the only solution that saves lives, punishes the guilty, and guarantees a permanent resolution to the conflict.

Destroy may be painted red, but that sounds like Paragon to me. The colors at the end of the game are irrelevant. You have to analyze the choices to determine the morality.

[Draining Dragon]

Destroy.

[Reorte]

The Paragon choice is the one that screws over the fewest. That is most definitely NOT Refuse. Whether that's Control or Destroy depends upon how much of a risk you're willing to take and how long-term your view is, not how Paragon or Renegade you are. Remember even the most Paragon Shepard has no problems with shooting anyone shooting at him. Renegade Shepards seem to shoot people in cutscenes not because they think it's too great a risk to let them go but because they think they deserve to die.

There's nothing Paragon, or ethical, about Refuse though.

Modifié par Reorte, 15 juin 2013 - 06:16 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

jtav wrote...

Destroy isn't Paragon folks. "We don't sacrifice lives for the sake of the mission." Paragon is the "damn the consequences" where Shep makes huge gambles to avoid immediate casualties. That's not Destroy. It's also not the same thing as right or ethical.

It's simple jtav. Destroy. "We don't sacrifice lives (unnecessarily) for the sake of the mission."

There are two types of Paragon. Paragon smart, and Paragon stupid. Paragon damn the consequences is paragon stupid. Paragon smart is always thinking of the consequences. Shepard is not the only one in the galaxy. Shepard's principles are not the only ones that matter unless Shepard is a self-righteous idiot.

* Side with the Quarians over Rannoch. -- The Geth aren't true AI. They aren't alive yet. Alone they are less intelligent than your average VI. You get no renegade penalty for siding with them, even if you have the persuade and intimidate options for peace open. Just grow a pair and do it. Tali does the dirty work. You don't have to take the renegade interrupts if you want to remain "pure."

There now Starbrat doesn't have anything to hold over your head, and if you'd sacrifice the galaxy for EDI you're an idiot.

Control isn't paragon either. Why? You endorse slavery. You are no better than the Catalyst.

Synthesis isn't paragon. Refuse isn't paragon. In reality none of the choices are pure paragon. If you want paragon, load up the happy ending mod on your PC and play that. That's the paragon ending.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Your Shepard sounds closer to the "Space Jesus" side of Paragon than the "Lawful Stupid" side, so Paragon Control or Synthesis would seem to be the best fit.

And everyone saying to pick Destroy; nope, Destroy's the Renegade choice. Paragon Shepard spends far too much time whining about how robots are people to pick Destroy.

You surprise me. But you're right. Paragon Shepard does spend way too much time whining about how robots are people. Paragon Shepard is a bigger suit-wetter than Zaal'Koris. I keep getting wires crossed when I wouldn't have any more trouble experimenting on one of them than a childhood toy, because individually they're less intelligent than a conventional VI. So *poof* they go over Rannoch, and Starbrat has nothing to hold over Shepard's head. And Paragon Shepards do not have to take the three interrupts if they want to remain "pure", because Tali, The Unclean, did the dirty work.

Now the choice of Destroy becomes Paragon, whereas before it was Renegade.

[Fixers0]

Unfortunatly Neither ending grants morality points, nor does it have a specific position on the dialogue wheel, so none of the endings has a morality.

[Faerloch]

I'd think a paragon Shepard would choose Synthesis if anything. Shepard defies all rational and survival instincts to make peace with machines that have already decimated billions of lives to keep EDI alive. Synthesis is probably the purest form of sacrifice from Shepard, as they have nothing to gain personally since they won't be controlling/destroying Reapers. The cycle is over, move on, we are one community now, synthesized. Yay.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Faerloch wrote...

I'd think a paragon Shepard would choose Synthesis if anything. Shepard defies all rational and survival instincts to make peace with machines that have already decimated billions of lives to keep EDI alive. Synthesis is probably the purest form of sacrifice from Shepard, as they have nothing to gain personally since they won't be controlling/destroying Reapers. The cycle is over, move on, we are one community now, synthesized. Yay.

Ah, yes, and forgive the reapers for all the murders and and smoothies they made over the eons. That would fit. Genocide is not really murder because it is all reversible if you make the right choice. We just need Seival to drop in and explain it all to us.

[Eterna]

Destroy isn't an option you filthy genocidal luddites.

[S.A.K]

No ending is paragon, but Destroy is closest for me.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Eterna5 doesn't understand. One can remain paragon if one lets others do the dirty work and prepare the ending for you. The game allows it.

[Eterna]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Eterna5 doesn't understand. One can remain paragon if one lets others do the dirty work and prepare the ending for you. The game allows it.

You're right, I don't understand. I'm not sure what this sentence is talking about. 

[knightnblu]

Eterna5 wrote...

Destroy isn't an option you filthy genocidal luddites.

Genocide? You mistake murder for execution. Unless you call the executions set out in the Nuremburg trials senseless murder. The destruction of the Reapers is justice for their myriad war crimes. Taking the cowards way out by not destroying them and saying that you are against genocide is ludicrous.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

knightnblu wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Destroy isn't an option you filthy genocidal luddites.

Genocide? You mistake murder for execution. Unless you call the executions set out in the Nuremburg trials senseless murder. The destruction of the Reapers is justice for their myriad war crimes. Taking the cowards way out by not destroying them and saying that you are against genocide is ludicrous.

But what you're not understanding is that if you take all of the dead and you put them in the blender and turn them into reapers the genocide is reversible, if you make the right choices. It's all been explained. You choose control, then you instruct your minions to build another crucible for synthesis so that it never happens again. You can save all of them.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

StreetMagic wrote...

Who cares if it's genocide? How's that?

What if I WANT genocide?

Knock it off or I'm going to have to PM Seival. Oh, that's right. Seival isn't on my friends list. lolz.

[celestial_emperor]

So is ParagonShep good or GOOD? (By the way, I did a Paragon Shepard that I simply called 'Boy Scout Shepard,' same kind of deal)

I don't know if you've read the Superman graphic novel, "Red Son," but Superman in that comic is basically forced to deal with the decision to perform a "Control" on all of humanity. Basically, the Control ending as I read it replaces the Harbringer/Star Child/whoever runs the Reapers with Shepard as the space god controlling the ultimate weapon. This causes serious issues. If the Krogan revolt again, Shepard could just bring back a couple of Reapers and obliterate half the Krogan population. Would your Shepard really feel comfortable with that kind of power?

In "Red Son," Luthor defeats Super Man by giving him a note. saying, essentially "Why don't you put the whole universe in a bottle?" Basically, your Boy Scout Shepard would have the Superman conundrum. Do I take control of these flying extinction machines and put the universe back together, or do I stick to my personal views and keep fighting?

I'd probably say in your case that keep fighting would make the most sense.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

CptData wrote...

Negative.

"Control" has far more dire consequences than you might imagine. And synthesis consequences are "horrible" tbh.

 ka-*snip*!!! by HYR 

Woah there, shooter. You're weighing consequences. That's pragmatism, and paragons are not pragmatic creatures.

If a decision does not fit paragon morality then all bets are off. Look at how Shepard handles the Collector Base.

Anything else, and you're really not playing "paragon." At that point, you've crossed into paragade territory.

[celestial_emperor]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

I do not understand the obsession people have with labeling themselves and believing that Paragons are the paradigm of everything that is good and holy. 

It's because we're all secretly dwarves.

[Gold Dragon]

Paragon doesn't mean Paladin, folks.

One can be a paragon while being a Mass Murderer (or am I the only one who does Arrival?)