98 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

IanPolaris wrote...

You don't have to be a mage to tear open the veil (and indeed in that scene you posted, I saw no mages doing so). You just have to be willing to slaughter enough people (like the Templars did in Northern Rivvain).

-Polaris

For real, is there a link that states that the annulment of the Rivain circle tore the veil?

[billy the squid]

IanPolaris wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

how are they in a lot of bloodshed. they can be part of it but when a lot of people die on a battlefield with or without magic the veil can be torn but mages are involved without a doubt in that apparently. also I would rather have the option to maybe have a chance to succed or be able to live without having people watching me and be ready to kill me at any time. I think they should have mandatory training by a tutor or something so they know to be careful of demons and what to watch for but they should not be kept in a building for there life. I think everyone should be free unless that person does something to be thrown in jail and then only the people who commited a crime should be not an entire people when only a few did something

Exactly so, punish people for what they DO rather than what they ARE.  I have no qualms about making magical crimes more serious (just as IRL any crime done using a firearm is more serious), but collective punishment is simply barbaric and that's all there is too it.

Of course there are some here that apparently believe in, "Kill them all, the Maker will know his own".

-Polaris

Whos' punishing. It's a centralised system which allows oversight. They then rebelled, thus force is needed to place them under control again. You want persicution then You should have a look at the Inquisition, before they signed the Nevarran accords. They hunted and exterminated mages throughout Thedas. You thought the Circle was punishment? Mages bit the hand that fed them and unleashed the Inquisition again.

[KainD]

hhh89 wrote...

KainD wrote...

Implying that opening the veil is bad..

Considering that the main plot is to stop and solve the Fade breaching problem, I doubt that you'll have the option to say that the opening of the Veil is good.
Sure, in the trailer Morrigan implied that you can decide to end the world. Regardless if we seriously have this option, why would you think that the end the world is good?

I don't want the end of the world, I want the veil to be opened. Magic will be as closer as ever, you don't need to cross anything anymore. Chances are all newborns will be mages, and a lot of knowlege is to be learned from the fade and it's inhabitants. 

[MilaBanilla]

I don't want to kill all mages 

Only those who are hurting innocents intentionally. As others have said before, mages aren't the only ones that can tear the Veil open. Massive deaths in a area can cause the Veil to be torn as well.

I guess I'm a terrible Templar supporter  but I really don't like the idea annihilating all the mages. It just causes needless death and there will be more mage-born babies. 

[billy the squid]

KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

KainD wrote...

Implying that opening the veil is bad..

Considering that the main plot is to stop and solve the Fade breaching problem, I doubt that you'll have the option to say that the opening of the Veil is good.
Sure, in the trailer Morrigan implied that you can decide to end the world. Regardless if we seriously have this option, why would you think that the end the world is good?

I don't want the end of the world, I want the veil to be opened. Magic will be as closer as ever, you don't need to cross anything anymore. Chances are all newborns will be mages, and a lot of knowlege is to be learned from the fade and it's inhabitants. 

And demons kill everyone. Cool!

[The Hierophant]

KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

KainD wrote...

Implying that opening the veil is bad..

Considering that the main plot is to stop and solve the Fade breaching problem, I doubt that you'll have the option to say that the opening of the Veil is good.
Sure, in the trailer Morrigan implied that you can decide to end the world. Regardless if we seriously have this option, why would you think that the end the world is good?

I don't want the end of the world, I want the veil to be opened. Magic will be as closer as ever, you don't need to cross anything anymore. Chances are all newborns will be mages, and a lot of knowlege is to be learned from the fade and it's inhabitants. 

Before or after an army of demons tears Thedas a new one?

[KainD]

billy the squid wrote...

And demons kill everyone. Cool!

No, that's silly. They have no reason to, they don't have the power to and they will be able to die permenetely, since they have no place to return after fade and mundane world become one. 

[Mello]

Who said the mages caused the tear? Oh right, nobody. Yeah they could have because of extensive use of magic. But what mage besides rebels would want to use their magic in a world where they're being watched in every corner? What's the point of trying to kill all mages? They're just going to be born again. And by trying to kill all mages, templars are going to cause more bloodshed which will cause the veil to tear again. I put my bet that the templars caused the veil to tear.

[billy the squid]

Vit246 wrote...

There is no context to that picture, but I'll play along.

There was a time before the Chantry and Templar oversight for thousands of years. Did mages destroy the world back then? Have you considered that maybe all of this is a reaction towards the hated Chantry Templar oversight? Because of such oversight? All of the misunderstandings and bigotries and mages have finally had enough?

Good luck trying to wipe out mages. Because they will continue to be born over and over and over. In fact you will cause so much bloodshed and death you'll probably tear the Veil over and over and over. Perhaps it is Templars who tear the veil? Nice job breaking it hero.

Before the Chantry there was the Inquisition. And they hunted and exterminated mages throughout Thedas. Before them Was the Tevinter Imperium.

So there goes that theory, especially when you have order of magically resistant soldiers hunting your kind wherever they are, people tend to keep their head down or lose it.

[garrusfan1]

billy the squid wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

uh we don't even know what happens or what causes it. also when a lot of death happens in one place it rips the veil no mages needed. also the whole point of the anti mage and pro mage argument is whether they should all be punished for the few that turn bad. like should the circle in kirkwall be slaughtered because of anders who wasen't even part of the circle destroying the chantry. basically should a few bad people make the rest be prisoners

Let's dispense with the Kirkwall characters, because that was bad writing, even if it portrayed Mages as insane. DA2 made me want to hammer my head into the desk.

As to the Circle point. The Circle remains a comfortable life, away from the trials of the world. Or are Mages also being given the freedom to starve, like any normal pesant?

2 points are pertinent. Poor oversight, with Meredith having a clear vendetta, but also Orsino allowing a proliferation of Maleficar within the Circle itself. For all Ander's involvement he was a catalyst in a situation which illuminated the excesses and the secretive nature of the Mages, and the issue of having a Kinght Commander in a position where her passed history calls her objectiveity into question. 

From, that the Circle is not an issue, nor is the Templar's function. Unless you wish to start barring mges from aspects of society, and the simple practical impossibility of policing Mages roaming freely round Thedas with all the inherrent threats both magical and mundane (being used as a living weapon)

Veil tears are opened by A) Magic and lots of bloodshed. I think it's safe to say Mages will be involved in both these scenarios.

how are they in a lot of bloodshed. they can be part of it but when a lot of people die on a battlefield with or without magic the veil can be torn but mages are involved without a doubt in that apparently. also I would rather have the option to maybe have a chance to succed or be able to live without having people watching me and be ready to kill me at any time. I think they should have mandatory training by a tutor or something so they know to be careful of demons and what to watch for but they should not be kept in a building for there life. I think everyone should be free unless that person does something to be thrown in jail and then only the people who commited a crime should be not an entire people when only a few did something

Well considering the main conflict is between the Templars and their supporters and Mages. It's not that odd to have mages involved in battles. They violently rebelled, so it's safe to say they're not going to be resisting peacefully.

I already know, that the game is supposed to be more open ended. What the details of the various outcomes are, are unknown. Same with the Origins. Which seem to be Circle (defunct?) Mage, Templar/ Inquisition, Seeker (Chantry affiliated?) Tevinter?

Freedom is an illusion, mundanes are not free. They have freedom to starve, but that's no freedom. Especially considering 90% of the population are the pesant masses.

uh you say they revolted violently but not all did the revolutionist and anders did I can almost guarantee that at the rest of the circles the Templars put an insane amount of pressure on the mages to make sure they didn't which pushed the mages over the edge.

[Qyla]

garrusfan1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Qyla wrote...

Great idea! Kill all the mages, problem solved...oh wait. New mages will born after that D:

Didn't stop the Inquisition before they signed the Nevarran accords with the Chantry. They had the mages on the run centuries before then.

so genocide you support genocide wow you are sick

Of course I was sarcastic -.-

[billy the squid]

KainD wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

And demons kill everyone. Cool!

No, that's silly. They have no reason to, they don't have the power to and they will be able to die permenetely, since they have no place to return after fade and mundane world become one. 

What? That's daft.

[KainD]

@iPoohCupCakes
Your avatar, where is it from?

[garrusfan1]

billy the squid wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

how are they in a lot of bloodshed. they can be part of it but when a lot of people die on a battlefield with or without magic the veil can be torn but mages are involved without a doubt in that apparently. also I would rather have the option to maybe have a chance to succed or be able to live without having people watching me and be ready to kill me at any time. I think they should have mandatory training by a tutor or something so they know to be careful of demons and what to watch for but they should not be kept in a building for there life. I think everyone should be free unless that person does something to be thrown in jail and then only the people who commited a crime should be not an entire people when only a few did something

Exactly so, punish people for what they DO rather than what they ARE.  I have no qualms about making magical crimes more serious (just as IRL any crime done using a firearm is more serious), but collective punishment is simply barbaric and that's all there is too it.

Of course there are some here that apparently believe in, "Kill them all, the Maker will know his own".

-Polaris

Whos' punishing. It's a centralised system which allows oversight. They then rebelled, thus force is needed to place them under control again. You want persicution then You should have a look at the Inquisition, before they signed the Nevarran accords. They hunted and exterminated mages throughout Thedas. You thought the Circle was punishment? Mages bit the hand that fed them and unleashed the Inquisition again.

so basically be put in prison or be killed wow those are great options

[garrusfan1]

Qyla wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Qyla wrote...

Great idea! Kill all the mages, problem solved...oh wait. New mages will born after that D:

Didn't stop the Inquisition before they signed the Nevarran accords with the Chantry. They had the mages on the run centuries before then.

so genocide you support genocide wow you are sick

Of course I was sarcastic -.-

my mistake

[billy the squid]

The Hierophant wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

You don't have to be a mage to tear open the veil (and indeed in that scene you posted, I saw no mages doing so). You just have to be willing to slaughter enough people (like the Templars did in Northern Rivvain).

-Polaris

For real, is there a link that states that the annulment of the Rivain circle tore the veil?

It weakened the Veil, rather than tear it, and that was the Chantry purging Rivian after the Qunari invasion. So it wasn't a single circle it was Thousands, and thousands of mundanes.

[garrusfan1]

billy the squid wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

There is no context to that picture, but I'll play along.

There was a time before the Chantry and Templar oversight for thousands of years. Did mages destroy the world back then? Have you considered that maybe all of this is a reaction towards the hated Chantry Templar oversight? Because of such oversight? All of the misunderstandings and bigotries and mages have finally had enough?

Good luck trying to wipe out mages. Because they will continue to be born over and over and over. In fact you will cause so much bloodshed and death you'll probably tear the Veil over and over and over. Perhaps it is Templars who tear the veil? Nice job breaking it hero.

Before the Chantry there was the Inquisition. And they hunted and exterminated mages throughout Thedas. Before them Was the Tevinter Imperium.

So there goes that theory, especially when you have order of magically resistant soldiers hunting your kind wherever they are, people tend to keep their head down or lose it.

and before the tevinter imperium there was no life apparenetly

[Vit246]

billy the squid wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

There is no context to that picture, but I'll play along.

There was a time before the Chantry and Templar oversight for thousands of years. Did mages destroy the world back then? Have you considered that maybe all of this is a reaction towards the hated Chantry Templar oversight? Because of such oversight? All of the misunderstandings and bigotries and mages have finally had enough?

Good luck trying to wipe out mages. Because they will continue to be born over and over and over. In fact you will cause so much bloodshed and death you'll probably tear the Veil over and over and over. Perhaps it is Templars who tear the veil? Nice job breaking it hero.

Before the Chantry there was the Inquisition. And they hunted and exterminated mages throughout Thedas. Before them Was the Tevinter Imperium.

So there goes that theory, especially when you have order of magically resistant soldiers hunting your kind wherever they are, people tend to keep their head down or lose it.

Before the Inquisition and before the Tevinter. 

And for all the bad stuff about Tevinter, did they destroy the world? No. 

[billy the squid]

garrusfan1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

There is no context to that picture, but I'll play along.

There was a time before the Chantry and Templar oversight for thousands of years. Did mages destroy the world back then? Have you considered that maybe all of this is a reaction towards the hated Chantry Templar oversight? Because of such oversight? All of the misunderstandings and bigotries and mages have finally had enough?

Good luck trying to wipe out mages. Because they will continue to be born over and over and over. In fact you will cause so much bloodshed and death you'll probably tear the Veil over and over and over. Perhaps it is Templars who tear the veil? Nice job breaking it hero.

Before the Chantry there was the Inquisition. And they hunted and exterminated mages throughout Thedas. Before them Was the Tevinter Imperium.

So there goes that theory, especially when you have order of magically resistant soldiers hunting your kind wherever they are, people tend to keep their head down or lose it.

and before the tevinter imperium there was no life apparenetly

And have the mages been growing in number? Have they always been this powerful? Hardly. As civlisations progress and the knowledge was accumulated so did their powers. Until the Magisters of the Imperium, forced a tear in the Veil...kind of like the one on page one!

[The Hierophant]

billy the squid wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

You don't have to be a mage to tear open the veil (and indeed in that scene you posted, I saw no mages doing so). You just have to be willing to slaughter enough people (like the Templars did in Northern Rivvain).

-Polaris

For real, is there a link that states that the annulment of the Rivain circle tore the veil?

It weakened the Veil, rather than tear it, and that was the Chantry purging Rivian after the Qunari invasion. So it wasn't a single circle it was Thousands, and thousands of mundanes.

Now that makes me curious about the proximate number of casualties that's needed to tear the veil, as even the massacre at Ostagar didn't do so.

[Qyla]

@GrassuFan1 don't worry

Example of good mage... (culture? raising?): Dalish's Keepers and people with magic abilities are haunted IF and WHEN they give in to demons.

If children with magic abilities would be properly educated in their city/village we won't have such a mess to deal with right now.

[billy the squid]

Vit246 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

There is no context to that picture, but I'll play along.

There was a time before the Chantry and Templar oversight for thousands of years. Did mages destroy the world back then? Have you considered that maybe all of this is a reaction towards the hated Chantry Templar oversight? Because of such oversight? All of the misunderstandings and bigotries and mages have finally had enough?

Good luck trying to wipe out mages. Because they will continue to be born over and over and over. In fact you will cause so much bloodshed and death you'll probably tear the Veil over and over and over. Perhaps it is Templars who tear the veil? Nice job breaking it hero.

Before the Chantry there was the Inquisition. And they hunted and exterminated mages throughout Thedas. Before them Was the Tevinter Imperium.

So there goes that theory, especially when you have order of magically resistant soldiers hunting your kind wherever they are, people tend to keep their head down or lose it.

Before the Inquisition and before the Tevinter. 

And for all the bad stuff about Tevinter, did they destroy the world? No. 

Whoa hahahaaha. Okay. Cool. So the Templars can do anything, and as long as it doesn't create a horde of creatures which blight the land and cause death and destruction on a continental scale for thousands of years we're okay. Got ya.

[The Hierophant]

Vit246 wrote...

Before the Inquisition and before the Tevinter. 

And for all the bad stuff about Tevinter, did they destroy the world? No. 

Corypheus contracted a magical plague from the GC that nearly life wiped Thedas during the First Blight.