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[The Hierophant]

billy the squid wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

There's nothing in the trailer that suggests it was the mages who opened the veil. And to support that possibility that it wasn't mages, I can point out in-game precedents of the veil being sundered without mages.

It's established in the game that excessive violence naturally weakens the veil, and the Brecilian Forest itself is the precedent, having been the site of many battles and the violence sundered the veil, allowing demons to come through. These demons possessed the trees themselves and became Sylvans.

Weakened not sundered. You don't have a gaping hole in the sky, the weakend veils allows demons to possess and be summoned easier. It doesn't let them just walk through, which we see in this.

Well unless it has to be spelled out for people, the writing is on the wall. Which faction is able to open a tear in the veil?

Tbh i wouldn't be surprised if it was Morrigan or Flemeth who did it.

[garrusfan1]

also that lady that had sebastians parents killed in DA2 was possessed by a demon and gave her family to the demon and she wasn't a mage

[garrusfan1]

The Hierophant wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

There's nothing in the trailer that suggests it was the mages who opened the veil. And to support that possibility that it wasn't mages, I can point out in-game precedents of the veil being sundered without mages.

It's established in the game that excessive violence naturally weakens the veil, and the Brecilian Forest itself is the precedent, having been the site of many battles and the violence sundered the veil, allowing demons to come through. These demons possessed the trees themselves and became Sylvans.

Weakened not sundered. You don't have a gaping hole in the sky, the weakend veils allows demons to possess and be summoned easier. It doesn't let them just walk through, which we see in this.

Well unless it has to be spelled out for people, the writing is on the wall. Which faction is able to open a tear in the veil?

Tbh i wouldn't be surprised if it was Morrigan or Flemeth who did it.

I think they either knew it was coming or one or both of them did it

[Qyla]

@Billy The Squid - The nobility already uses apostate mages for that, as they use assassins and such. Nobility never dirty their own hands, if a noble was killed by magic and the son/daughter of his/her rival was a mage... I'll let you imagine what would come next. If Connor had a proper teacher that taught him how to deal with veil's demon Connor would have refused the deal or be killed by his teacher. Simple as that. No villagers slaughtered, no crazy drama.

@Garrusfan1 Once again, I agree.

[Senya]

While the veil tear could imply that a group of mages did something catastrophically stupid, it doesn't confirm it at the moment. It could be a combination of factors such as bloody battles, a build up of magical rituals from the Mages' side not meant to tear the Veil or even tear the Veil at normal times on their own, and those said battles being fought in an area where the Veil is already thin.

That said, I don't see the Templars themselves having been able to kill enough people on their own as it took the Tevinters centuries to weaken the Veil in Kirkwall, which would put some doubt on a handful of Mages ripping the Veil open like this, though there might be a better chance in a place where the Veil is already weakened or damaged.

My best bet would be that a combination of factors contributed to the Veil being torn like this, probably by those manipulating events in Thedas to cause chaos and destruction, as mentioned in the summary of the game.

[billy the squid]

garrusfan1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Qyla wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Qyla wrote...

@GrassuFan1 don't worry

Example of good mage... (culture? raising?): Dalish's Keepers and people with magic abilities are haunted IF and WHEN they give in to demons.

If children with magic abilities would be properly educated in their city/village we won't have such a mess to deal with right now.

exactly it is like when people say all pitbulls are mean and in reality they are usually only mean if they aren't trained right. sure there are exceptions to the rule but in the majority if a mage was trained to use magic and be mindful of what to watch out for in the fade they would likely be fine for the vast majority. I bet most would even say they wouldn't be in government if it meant they could be free but they would need someone to support their rights. and the reason I say they wouldn't be in government is because there would be such an uproar over the magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him thing (even though it is argued about what it means)

Glad that someone shares my ideas ^-^.
And please pro templars don't bring up Connor, I won't trust Jowan to teach how to peel a potato, let alone magic to a little kid with a sick dad.

And you trust the back stabbing nobility not to use mages as weapons in their petty squabbles. The Templars deliberately try to keep mages out of the political sphere because they are potential dangerous weapons to be abused by the nobility. That doesn't even account for mages forcibly entering the political sphere and manipulating things via blood magic, hiding in plain sight. Connor's situation has nothing to do with Jowan, it's a perfect example where a young mage loses control, the collateral damage is huge. Hence the circles are used to safeguard mundanes people from mages, and mages from people, or do which trials have to be a common occurence in Thedas?

so a mage would be used as a weapon like a sword. GASP you mean that someone would use a mage as a soldier your right cause they have no one else trained to kill people right. those pointy  sharp metal things are for shaving giants and chopping down trees not war. and connor wasn't trained well or he likely wouldn't have done that

A gun is like a fuel air bomb then. Glad we're on to making false equivalencies.

Irrelevant. It was his position within a society which caused a huge amount of death. It takes years to train a mage. And there is always a risk, that's why the Harrowing and Tranquilisation exists. What happens when you have a mage who isn't strong enough. There is no contained environment, so we end up with the Redcliff scenario, piles of corpses.

[billy the squid]

garrusfan1 wrote...

also that lady that had sebastians parents killed in DA2 was possessed by a demon and gave her family to the demon and she wasn't a mage

And Meredith developed power ranger powers with her lightsaber, and can jump 30ft in the air. Yeah, no problemS with DA2.

[billy the squid]

Qyla wrote...

@Billy The Squid - The nobility already uses apostate mages for that, as they use assassins and such. Nobility never dirty their own hands, if a noble was killed by magic and the son/daughter of his/her rival was a mage... I'll let you imagine what would come next. If Connor had a proper teacher that taught him how to deal with veil's demon Connor would have refused the deal or be killed by his teacher. Simple as that. No villagers slaughtered, no crazy drama.

And they're not that easy to get hold of. It'll be great when every Noble buys their own mage, and the magical catastrophe ensues. So an Assassin has the same destructive potential as a mage? Riiiiight.

Mage training takes years, or was Jowan supposed to teach him everything in a few months? This is precisely why the training is done in a contained environment. Pragamatism vs nieve idealism

[garrusfan1]

billy the squid wrote...

Qyla wrote...

@Billy The Squid - The nobility already uses apostate mages for that, as they use assassins and such. Nobility never dirty their own hands, if a noble was killed by magic and the son/daughter of his/her rival was a mage... I'll let you imagine what would come next. If Connor had a proper teacher that taught him how to deal with veil's demon Connor would have refused the deal or be killed by his teacher. Simple as that. No villagers slaughtered, no crazy drama.

And they're not that easy to get hold of. It'll be great when every Noble buys their own mage, and the magical catastrophe ensues. So an Assassin has the same destructive potential as a mage? Riiiiight.

Mage training takes years, or was Jowan supposed to teach him everything in a few months? This is precisely why the training is done in a contained environment. Pragamatism vs nieve idealism

some nobles already have mages in secret. you can also make them not be able to serve in armies but since they already do to some people in secret it is pointless. oh I am sorry I am an idealists cause I don't think people should be imprisoned for being born a special way and that I am willing to find ways to do it that are not as bad. and do you really think jowan taught connor well in those few months. ugh

[Qyla]

billy the squid wrote...
 It'll be great when every Noble buys their own mage, and the magical catastrophe ensues. 

You are kidding right? You can't be serious XD

billy the squid wrote...So an Assassin has the same destructive potential as a mage? Riiiiight.

if a mage uses his/her whole potential for a single assassination he/she would be a very poor assassin (too much mess)

billy the squid wrote...
Mage training takes years, or was Jowan supposed to teach him everything in a few months? This is precisely why the training is done in a contained environment. Pragamatism vs nieve idealism

Guess what, you can educate children even without keeping them prisoner. Nowadays we call those mythical place where this happens schools

[garrusfan1]

billy the squid wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

also that lady that had sebastians parents killed in DA2 was possessed by a demon and gave her family to the demon and she wasn't a mage

And Meredith developed power ranger powers with her lightsaber, and can jump 30ft in the air. Yeah, no problemS with DA2.

uh that was a boss fight and was ridiculous but the example I used wasn't like the Meredith boss fight and it can happen to non mages

[billy the squid]

garrusfan1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Qyla wrote...

@Billy The Squid - The nobility already uses apostate mages for that, as they use assassins and such. Nobility never dirty their own hands, if a noble was killed by magic and the son/daughter of his/her rival was a mage... I'll let you imagine what would come next. If Connor had a proper teacher that taught him how to deal with veil's demon Connor would have refused the deal or be killed by his teacher. Simple as that. No villagers slaughtered, no crazy drama.

And they're not that easy to get hold of. It'll be great when every Noble buys their own mage, and the magical catastrophe ensues. So an Assassin has the same destructive potential as a mage? Riiiiight.

Mage training takes years, or was Jowan supposed to teach him everything in a few months? This is precisely why the training is done in a contained environment. Pragamatism vs nieve idealism

some nobles already have mages in secret. you can also make them not be able to serve in armies but since they already do to some people in secret it is pointless. oh I am sorry I am an idealists cause I don't think people should be imprisoned for being born a special way and that I am willing to find ways to do it that are not as bad. and do you really think jowan taught connor well in those few months. ugh

Yeah, and why is in secret? The Seekers and Templars destroying that noble house. Yep, I'm sure they'll pay attention, you just need it to be enforced... how do you manage that without the Templars and Seekers?

You're an idealist, because you're ignoring the massive problems and practical implications of doing so, and the cost to everyone else when it inevitably goes wrong at some point, even if it does recover, saying oops doesn't quite cut it.

[billy the squid]

garrusfan1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

also that lady that had sebastians parents killed in DA2 was possessed by a demon and gave her family to the demon and she wasn't a mage

And Meredith developed power ranger powers with her lightsaber, and can jump 30ft in the air. Yeah, no problemS with DA2.

uh that was a boss fight and was ridiculous but the example I used wasn't like the Meredith boss fight and it can happen to non mages

You know what the explaination for the dumb arse behaviour was. The veil is thin, therefore everyone acts like idiots. I think we can write of DA2 as anything but a mess. It made me want to smash my head into the desk. 

Weakened veils allow easier possession aparantly that now extends to mundanes, although it doesn't seem to have happend after the chantry purges in Rivian. 

Holes! Holes everywhere. 

[Qyla]

billy the squid wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Qyla wrote...

@Billy The Squid - The nobility already uses apostate mages for that, as they use assassins and such. Nobility never dirty their own hands, if a noble was killed by magic and the son/daughter of his/her rival was a mage... I'll let you imagine what would come next. If Connor had a proper teacher that taught him how to deal with veil's demon Connor would have refused the deal or be killed by his teacher. Simple as that. No villagers slaughtered, no crazy drama.

And they're not that easy to get hold of. It'll be great when every Noble buys their own mage, and the magical catastrophe ensues. So an Assassin has the same destructive potential as a mage? Riiiiight.

Mage training takes years, or was Jowan supposed to teach him everything in a few months? This is precisely why the training is done in a contained environment. Pragamatism vs nieve idealism

some nobles already have mages in secret. you can also make them not be able to serve in armies but since they already do to some people in secret it is pointless. oh I am sorry I am an idealists cause I don't think people should be imprisoned for being born a special way and that I am willing to find ways to do it that are not as bad. and do you really think jowan taught connor well in those few months. ugh

Yeah, and why is in secret? The Seekers and Templars destroying that noble house. Yep, I'm sure they'll pay attention, you just need it to be enforced... how do you manage that without the Templars and Seekers?

You're an idealist, because you're ignoring the massive problems and practical implications of doing so, and the cost to everyone else when it inevitably goes wrong at some point, even if it does recover, saying oops doesn't quite cut it.

What about political implication of killing all the mage? The Warden and Hawke can be mages too, don't forget it. What about children? Innocent mages? If Garrusfan1 is an idealist what are you?

And the fact that the mages are free does not imply that templars and seekers disappear

[billy the squid]

Qyla wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
 It'll be great when every Noble buys their own mage, and the magical catastrophe ensues. 

You are kidding right? You can't be serious XD

billy the squid wrote...So an Assassin has the same destructive potential as a mage? Riiiiight.

if a mage uses his/her whole potential for a single assassination he/she would be a very poor assassin (too much mess)

billy the squid wrote...
Mage training takes years, or was Jowan supposed to teach him everything in a few months? This is precisely why the training is done in a contained environment. Pragamatism vs nieve idealism

Guess what, you can educate children even without keeping them prisoner. Nowadays we call those mythical place where this happens schools

You don't think certain mages will want to get involved? It's human nature. You can't be that naive

Why assassinate someone, when you can secure them using blood magic?

Yeah, I'll be sure to tell the kid not to practice magic on weekends and when he goes home, or when he tries to cure an ailing relative. Oh wait.... it's the Redcliff issue again. Or are all new mages just going to pick everything up immediately? Pffffft please. 

Now a days kids don't go nuts and turn into monsters either, please try harder.

[KainD]

billy the squid wrote...

You don't think certain mages will want to get involved? It's human nature. You can't be that naive

Human nature is nurture.

[Bat32391]

I'm pretty sure  the veil gets torn when there is a lot of death in an area. And considering Thedas is have what is essentially a World War, a **** ton of people are dying all over the place. So, its bound to cause something like that big green hole in the sky to happen. I wouldn't say its just the mage's fault, but the fault of everyone fighting in this war because both sides were too stubborn to compromise.

Modifié par Bat32391, 16 juin 2013 - 12:16 .

[Qyla]

billy the squid wrote...

Qyla wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
 It'll be great when every Noble buys their own mage, and the magical catastrophe ensues. 

You are kidding right? You can't be serious XD

billy the squid wrote...So an Assassin has the same destructive potential as a mage? Riiiiight.

if a mage uses his/her whole potential for a single assassination he/she would be a very poor assassin (too much mess)

billy the squid wrote...
Mage training takes years, or was Jowan supposed to teach him everything in a few months? This is precisely why the training is done in a contained environment. Pragamatism vs nieve idealism

Guess what, you can educate children even without keeping them prisoner. Nowadays we call those mythical place where this happens schools

You don't think certain mages will want to get involved? It's human nature. You can't be that naive

Why assassinate someone, when you can secure them using blood magic?

Yeah, I'll be sure to tell the kid not to practice magic on weekends and when he goes home, or when he tries to cure an ailing relative. Oh wait.... it's the Redcliff issue again. Or are all new mages just going to pick everything up immediately? Pffffft please. 

Now a days kids don't go nuts and turn into monsters either, please try harder.

Buy someone involves slavery and anyone in his/her right mind would send a mage to destroy anything, he/she will be haunted down and killed in no time. As I already say nobles already do it in secret, and you assume that every mage is going to kill anyone to begin eith. if you go on with this prejudice we can't go anywhere.

What do you mean by ensure?

Oh wait, in a world with free mages the kids parent will just ask the local mage to help and would be aware of the danger of the Fade. Please try harder.

[Senya]

Actually, to be fair, most modern sociologists agree that people develop from a combination of nature and nurture if I remember my sociology classes right. As it is, to be on topic, I think the Veil tear was created by whoever or whatever has been manipulating events in Thedas for whatever reason.

[Qyla]

Due to the dragon with Flemeth like horns I guess it's her doing. I don't think Morrigan would do something like that, and as far as I know now I don't knowhow common mages would cause such a major tear in the Veil.

[Senya]

Indeed. As I said in my first post, it took the Tevinters centuries of continuous bloodshed to weaken the Veil the way it is in Kirkwall. Then, for the Golden City fiasco, they depleted two-thirds of their lyrium supplies to enter the Fade physically.

It is way above the power of ordinary Mages and Templars. I don't know if it's Flemeth, though. She's hard to read. She certainly has some type of plan, though.

[IanPolaris]

almostinsane99 wrote...

I think the Veil tear was created by whoever or whatever has been manipulating events in Thedas for whatever reason.

That I think is a very good and likely guess.  My personal inclination is that it's either Flemeth or Morrigan.

-Polaris 

[dragonflight288]

garrusfan1 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

There's nothing in the trailer that suggests it was the mages who opened the veil. And to support that possibility that it wasn't mages, I can point out in-game precedents of the veil being sundered without mages.

It's established in the game that excessive violence naturally weakens the veil, and the Brecilian Forest itself is the precedent, having been the site of many battles and the violence sundered the veil, allowing demons to come through. These demons possessed the trees themselves and became Sylvans.

Weakened not sundered. You don't have a gaping hole in the sky, the weakend veils allows demons to possess and be summoned easier. It doesn't let them just walk through, which we see in this.

Well unless it has to be spelled out for people, the writing is on the wall. Which faction is able to open a tear in the veil?

Tbh i wouldn't be surprised if it was Morrigan or Flemeth who did it.

I think they either knew it was coming or one or both of them did it

It's entirely possible. Morrigan went beyond the Fade through the Eluvian, and she told us in Witch Hunt that there was only enough power in the mirror to go through once.

Morrigan may have done it to come back through to our side, and is she is wont to do, didn't care about what happened to others so long as she increases her chances of survival and increases her own power.

[Peer of the Empire]

Hail Templars