160 réponses à ce sujet

[Jackums]

"Evil" is a subjective concept. In fact, I could entirely dismiss the idea of good and evil as a whole. They're human constructs just as are the notions of right and wrong.

As such, no, I don't think Tevinter are "evil". They practise slavery because they can and because it benefits them. They're simply utilising what's at their disposal. Do I find it cruel? Yes. Do I personally support it? No. Do I think it's evil? No.

Modifié par JackumsD, 16 juin 2013 - 01:22 .

[LobselVith8]

garrusfan1 wrote...

they wouldn't be able to do the blood magic sacrifice without their slaves (or at least as much). I only considered them evil because they had slavery and did the blood magic sacrifices and such. So if they didn't have slavery would you consider them as evil or less evil or not at all

Tevinter enslaves mages and non-mages in their society, but it seems to be the only society where elves can be more than servants - as Fenris' sister had the opportunity to become a Magister as an elven mage. I'm sure that there's more to Tevinter than slavery and abusing blood magic for obscene acts or parlor tricks (as even Wynne sounded interested in visiting Tevinter with Shale), but there are some valid reasons that characters condemn their society.

[KiwiQuiche]

Well, as many others pointed out, the rest of Thedas can't really brag about their goodness. They just villify Tevinter above all else because of the Chantry and their mage-hate doctrine.

[KainD]

krul2k wrote...

whats evil?

Something you don't agree with. 

[Plaintiff]

There are forms of oppression besides out-and-out slavery.

All forms of discrimination would have to be eliminated in order for any society to meet my personal standards. Tevinter isn't anywhere close to that, but nor is anywhere else in Thedas.

[KainD]

Plaintiff wrote...

All forms of discrimination would have to be eliminated in order for any society to meet my personal standards. Tevinter isn't anywhere close to that, but nor is anywhere else in Thedas.

Nor is anywhere ever. 

[Medhia Nox]

What's interesting about this thread - is that Tevinter is not consider evil, because other nations do bad things.

So - what everyone in this thread is saying is: So long as everyone does evil - nobody can be considered evil.

Wow....

[AmRMa]

Okay first slavery is an evil institution and since Tevinter still has it, yes it is evil. Also their society seems based on those that have the power lord it over the others (kind of like the dwarven caste system which I also consider wrong). The only good thing I can say is that they don't lock mages up- but they treat everyone else horribly even less powerful mages. So based on that I think the Tevinter Imperium is evil but not necessarily everyone in it is.

[KainD]

Medhia Nox wrote...

What's interesting about this thread - is that Tevinter is not consider evil, because other nations do bad things.

So - what everyone in this thread is saying is: So long as everyone does evil - nobody can be considered evil.

Wow....

No, Tevinter is not evil, and other nations do NOT do bad things. It's just another way of life. Evil is subjective.

[KiwiQuiche]

Medhia Nox wrote...

What's interesting about this thread - is that Tevinter is not consider evil, because other nations do bad things.

So - what everyone in this thread is saying is: So long as everyone does evil - nobody can be considered evil.

Wow....

Evil is such a stupid word as it is.

[Dave of Canada]

Medhia Nox wrote...

What's interesting about this thread - is that Tevinter is not consider evil, because other nations do bad things.

So - what everyone in this thread is saying is: So long as everyone does evil - nobody can be considered evil.

Nobody but mages, they brought Darkspawn to Thedas.

[Medhia Nox]

@KainD: Oh, that's so trendy!

[Steelcan]

I like them. But Ive always liked that particular trope

[Medhia Nox]

@Dave of Canada: You seem to have purposefully gone off the Templar deep end tonight.

I suggest taking your lyrium pill.

[KiwiQuiche]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

What's interesting about this thread - is that Tevinter is not consider evil, because other nations do bad things.

So - what everyone in this thread is saying is: So long as everyone does evil - nobody can be considered evil.

Nobody but mages, they brought Darkspawn to Thedas.

There's that Chantry doctrine again.

[KainD]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@KainD: Oh, that's so trendy!

No I am serious. I've been thinking this through for a couple of months and decided that strongest survives is the way of nature and that there is nothing wrong with that, but that it is actually the right way. People have gone very far from nature though, and not a lot of natural things remain in our modern world. Things can work differently. 

[The Hierophant]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

What's interesting about this thread - is that Tevinter is not consider evil, because other nations do bad things.

So - what everyone in this thread is saying is: So long as everyone does evil - nobody can be considered evil.

Nobody but mages, they brought Darkspawn to Thedas.

There's that Chantry doctrine again.

Well the darkspawn did appear after Corypheus, and friend's GC trip.

[Neon Rising Winter]

JackumsD wrote...

"Evil" is a subjective concept. In fact, I could entirely dismiss the idea of good and evil as a whole. They're human constructs just as are the notions of right and wrong.

As such, no, I don't think Tevinter are "evil". They practise slavery because they can and because it benefits them. They're simply utilising what's at their disposal. Do I find it cruel? Yes. Do I personally support it? No. Do I think it's evil? No.

That seems less an argument that they are not evil and more one that the term evil is meaningless. Which isn't the same thing.

[Palidane]

And all the relativists come out to play. Wonderful.

[Medhia Nox]

@KainD: So if someone can overpower you - then they deserve to control you?

Do you perhaps live in a suburban community in America - enjoy a majority status and a middle to high socio-economic background? Perhaps even attending high-school, college or bachelor(ette) just after college status?

I find more often than not these are qualities of moral relativists.

But most moral relativists are grossly inconsistent in practice.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 16 juin 2013 - 03:21 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

KainD wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@KainD: Oh, that's so trendy!

No I am serious. I've been thinking this through for a couple of months and decided that strongest survives is the way of nature and that there is nothing wrong with that, but that it is actually the right way. People have gone very far from nature though, and not a lot of natural things remain in our modern world. Things can work differently. 

We have not gone far from nature. We cannot go far from nature, because we are part of nature. If this is what we are doing then it is natural, by definition.