290 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

Loghain himself comments that the plan wasn't ideal but he had to work with what resources he had available. When confronted on the subject by Wynne, Sten, and the Warden, he seems to genuinely believe that retreat was the best option at that point.

I think Loghain is a deconstruction of the famous strategist character in fiction. They're more often than not depicted as pulling blatantly impossible victories out of their asses with "clever" tactics. Loghain's a very competent strategist, but he's not a Mary Tzu.

His main flaw as a schemer is his complete lack of understanding of politics. He expected the nobles to fall in line and wasn't prepared for the fallout when they didn't. Even still, npc's comment that he's apparently winning the civil war.

As for when he figured out it was actually a Blight, well, I'd imagine it wasn't long after Lothering fell, if that long. What matters is that he didn't think it as a Blight when he sounded the retreat at Ostagar. He rolled his dice then and there and came up with snake eyes.

[Captain Obvious]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Loghain himself comments that the plan wasn't ideal but he had to work with what resources he had available. When confronted on the subject by Wynne, Sten, and the Warden, he seems to genuinely believe that retreat was the best option at that point.

I think Loghain is a deconstruction of the famous strategist character in fiction. They're more often than not depicted as pulling blatantly impossible victories out of their asses with "clever" tactics. Loghain's a very competent strategist, but he's not a Mary Tzu.

His main flaw as a schemer is his complete lack of understanding of politics. He expected the nobles to fall in line and wasn't prepared for the fallout when they didn't. Even still, npc's comment that he's apparently winning the civil war.

As for when he figured out it was actually a Blight, well, I'd imagine it wasn't long after Lothering fell, if that long. What matters is that he didn't think it as a Blight when he sounded the retreat at Ostagar. He rolled his dice then and there and came up with snake eyes.

Props on the Sun Tzu reference. 

Anywho, I'd say that Loghain's biggest mistake was having Howe as his second-in-command, though I can see why he would have him with him. Howe is quite politically suave. Loghain probably though that his defecient understanding of politics could be compensated with Howe on his side.

[Captain Obvious]

Cylanthegreat wrote...

I'd love an appearance by Loghain. From what Alistair said in 2, things seem pretty rocky between Fereldan and Orlais. It's very interesting that Loghain is serving with the Wardens in the country he seems to despise as it's either tearing itself apart through civil war or poised to once again battle his beloved homeland. Come on, Bioware, throw me a bone here, he was my favorite character from Origins besides Oghren.

I agree all the way. Dragon Age: Inquisition is the best time for an appearance of the Hero of River Dane. On top of it, I'd like to see Nathaniel again. A conversation between him and Loghain is long overdue. 

[Former_Fiend]

Cap. Obvious wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Loghain himself comments that the plan wasn't ideal but he had to work with what resources he had available. When confronted on the subject by Wynne, Sten, and the Warden, he seems to genuinely believe that retreat was the best option at that point.

I think Loghain is a deconstruction of the famous strategist character in fiction. They're more often than not depicted as pulling blatantly impossible victories out of their asses with "clever" tactics. Loghain's a very competent strategist, but he's not a Mary Tzu.

His main flaw as a schemer is his complete lack of understanding of politics. He expected the nobles to fall in line and wasn't prepared for the fallout when they didn't. Even still, npc's comment that he's apparently winning the civil war.

As for when he figured out it was actually a Blight, well, I'd imagine it wasn't long after Lothering fell, if that long. What matters is that he didn't think it as a Blight when he sounded the retreat at Ostagar. He rolled his dice then and there and came up with snake eyes.

Props on the Sun Tzu reference. 

Anywho, I'd say that Loghain's biggest mistake was having Howe as his second-in-command, though I can see why he would have him with him. Howe is quite politically suave. Loghain probably though that his defecient understanding of politics could be compensated with Howe on his side.

Allying with Howe was a mistake, but was the only option he had. Whether because Howe shared his hatred of Orliseans or because of his own resentment for the Couslands, Howe was the only major player who was willing to support Loghain's plans. 

All things considered, he's not a bad horse to bet on. Howe was the most powerful Arl in ferelden, even moreso than Eamon. I'm sure Loghain regretted working with Howe as soon as it came to light just what he was, but by that point he had bet on his horse and he had to live with the outcome.

Which isn't to say I don't hold Loghain partly responsible for Howe's actions, but what's done is done.

[Master Warder Z_]

 As i said in a similar thread i do hope he pops up in game.

[Xilizhra]

I don't know if I care much; other characters are more important to me.

[Former_Fiend]

I'll admit, a lot of it has to do with the fact that I simply love Simon Templeman as a voice actor. He voiced the protagonist in Legacy of Kain, the series that got me into gaming, and to this day he remains my absolute favorite.

The fact that he's voicing a character as complex and divisive as Loghain, that only makes me want him back more.

[Captain Obvious]

Former_Fiend wrote...

I'll admit, a lot of it has to do with the fact that I simply love Simon Templeman as a voice actor. He voiced the protagonist in Legacy of Kain, the series that got me into gaming, and to this day he remains my absolute favorite.

The fact that he's voicing a character as complex and divisive as Loghain, that only makes me want him back more.

Simon Templeman is a great voice-actor and he truly does breath life into the character. If Loghain were voiced by anyone else, he just wouldn't be as good. Same thing with Rick Wasserman and the Arishok.

Also, I agree with what you said about Howe. Loghain didn't have any choice. 

You know what? We REALLY need a conversation between Nathaniel and Loghain. Like I've said before, it's overdue. Who knows, maybe if Celene is alive, we can have one between her and Loghain as well.

Modifié par Cap. Obvious, 14 septembre 2013 - 02:12 .

[Thandal N'Lyman]

To paraphrase a line from the game itself; "He can't be in DA:I if he's dead!" 

[Pakundo]

Ah, Loghain.
When just played Origins as a newcomer to the series, I couldn't say no to Alistair.
But now, after having read The Stolen Throne and The Calling?
I'm seriously doubtful about what I'll choose for my Inquisition import save...

[Captain Obvious]

Pakundo wrote...

Ah, Loghain.
When just played Origins as a newcomer to the series, I couldn't say no to Alistair.
But now, after having read The Stolen Throne and The Calling?
I'm seriously doubtful about what I'll choose for my Inquisition import save...

Well, luckily, that's why we can have more than one playthrough.

I haven't read The Stolen Throne and The Calling, so I want to ask: what about the books made you change your mind about Loghain?

[Captain Obvious]

Hey, what does everyone think of Loghain and Nathaniel meeting each other in DA:I? I could definitely see them having a very interesting talk on Renden Howe.

[Former_Fiend]

It's a conversation I'd be interested in seeing. Not so much as Loghain and Alistair actually talking, but yea, I'd like to see it.

[dragonflight288]

Simon Templeman is a great voice-actor and he truly does breath life into the character. If Loghain were voiced by anyone else, he just wouldn't be as good. Same thing with Rick Wasserman and the Arishok.

Also, I agree with what you said about Howe. Loghain didn't have any choice.

You know what? We REALLY need a conversation between Nathaniel and Loghain. Like I've said before, it's overdue. Who knows, maybe if Celene is alive, we can have one between her and Loghain as well.

O.O

I would LOVE party banter between Nathanial, Alistair and Loghain!

[Clockwork_Wings]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Simon Templeman is a great voice-actor and he truly does breath life into the character. If Loghain were voiced by anyone else, he just wouldn't be as good. Same thing with Rick Wasserman and the Arishok.

Also, I agree with what you said about Howe. Loghain didn't have any choice.

You know what? We REALLY need a conversation between Nathaniel and Loghain. Like I've said before, it's overdue. Who knows, maybe if Celene is alive, we can have one between her and Loghain as well.

O.O

I would LOVE party banter between Nathanial, Alistair and Loghain!

Seconded.

[cicero740]

I keep him alive and make Alistar the king. even though alistar does not come with us so he will still be in the area so 4 grey wardens are better than and if me riordran and loghain get killed alistar will still be there to take another shot at the archdemon, i doubt he will be a sour puss with everything resting on his shoulders. Loghain would probably be at the grey warden fort in Orlais, either that or in the deep roads most probably dead.I would like to see him as a beggar in val royeaux or settled down in some orlesian hamlet just to make him a sympathetic charachter his rise and fall.I would like to see Natheniel also I like the howe family saga to continue.

[LupoCarlos]

I can't believe that BioWare is ignoring one of the most important characters in the franchise. That says that they really are focussing too much on the mage thing.

[DarthSideus2]

duckley wrote...

I really don't understand it. I had the impression that Loghain never intended to assist Cailen. I thought he decided he knew better than the King and did not want the Wardens or any possible alliance with the Orlesians. With Cailen dead he would in essence rule Ferelde - no wardens, no Orlesians. He left hundred of men to die including his son-in-law, and instigated a civil war at a time when the country needed unity, again putting his own hatred above all else. Again, because he knew best he tried to murder Eamon and wipe out any opposition that might come from the Cousland clan by allowing Howe to slaughter them. Unless my understanding is in error, I dont see anything morally grey here.

This.

That guy died in every play I have done. If he come back, let it be as some re-animated corpse or repentant ghost.

[Former_Fiend]

cicero740 wrote...

I keep him alive and make Alistar the king. even though alistar does not come with us so he will still be in the area so 4 grey wardens are better than and if me riordran and loghain get killed alistar will still be there to take another shot at the archdemon, i doubt he will be a sour puss with everything resting on his shoulders. Loghain would probably be at the grey warden fort in Orlais, either that or in the deep roads most probably dead.I would like to see him as a beggar in val royeaux or settled down in some orlesian hamlet just to make him a sympathetic charachter his rise and fall.I would like to see Natheniel also I like the howe family saga to continue.

I don't see him as a begger or hamlet; if he's alive, he's a warden, and if there is one warden who would not abandon his duty for personal reasons, it would be Loghain. 

[madzilla84]

I'm currently working on a DAO playthrough where I recruited Loghain for the first time, and I'm loving it - and I say that as a die-hard Alistair fan. It was reading the novels that really made me want to try it, and I'm glad I did. He's a great character with a lot of depth, and a fantastic VA to boot. I really, really hope he makes even a small appearance in DAI if he's alive in a playthrough.

And oh, I would *love* to see a conversation between him and Nathaniel, since Nathaniel is one of my favourite characters - but both of them are dead for so many people I don't know if they'd bother. Still, an appearance from either or both, together or separately, is one of my biggest hopes for DAI.

[Former_Fiend]

DarthSideus2 wrote...



This.

That guy died in every play I have done. If he come back, let it be as some re-animated corpse or repentant ghost.

No one is advocating he come back in playthroughs where he was killed. 

If you didn't like him and you killed him, either by execution or by forcing him to sacrifice himself, then he should be dead in your playthrough.

But for those of us who spared him, however few we may or may not be, we'd like to see him again.

[AlexanderCousland]

DarthSideus2 wrote...

duckley wrote...

I really don't understand it. I had the impression that Loghain never intended to assist Cailen. I thought he decided he knew better than the King and did not want the Wardens or any possible alliance with the Orlesians. With Cailen dead he would in essence rule Ferelde - no wardens, no Orlesians. He left hundred of men to die including his son-in-law, and instigated a civil war at a time when the country needed unity, again putting his own hatred above all else. Again, because he knew best he tried to murder Eamon and wipe out any opposition that might come from the Cousland clan by allowing Howe to slaughter them. Unless my understanding is in error, I dont see anything morally grey here.

This.

That guy died in every play I have done. If he come back, let it be as some re-animated corpse or repentant ghost.

1. Howe attacked the Couslands. There is no physical evidence that Lohgain knew Howe was going to make the attack on Highever Castle, nor is there any evidence Lohgain planned for Cailain to die In battle. How could Lohgain logically plan that the Warden and Alistair would be late to light the beacon? (Signal fire) 

2. The King was going to marry Empress Celene, forsaking Ferelden' s Independence (Everything Maric and Lohgain fought for) so he could fancy himself an Emperor, THAT, is what Lohgain knew. So excuse him if he wasn't happy with the Idea of becoming Orlesian. And he never Intended to rule himself, He wanted to defeat the blight and let Anora rule.

3. The Warden and Arl Eamon are the ones who actually instigated the Civil War. It was the Warden with help from Eamon that the Landsmeet was even able to be called. The rest of the country was prepared to follow Lohgain if it were not for Eamon and the Warden.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Former_Fiend wrote...


I don't see him as a begger or hamlet; if he's alive, he's a warden, and if there is one warden who would not abandon his duty for personal reasons, it would be Loghain. 

What? It could be argued that Loghain abandoned his duty to his king due his own petty jealousy and life long resentment of Maric. 

[Former_Fiend]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...


I don't see him as a begger or hamlet; if he's alive, he's a warden, and if there is one warden who would not abandon his duty for personal reasons, it would be Loghain. 

What? It could be argued that Loghain abandoned his duty to his king due his own petty jealousy and life long resentment of Maric. 

Loghain had no duty to a king. He had a duty to a kingdom.

Now I don't agree with most of what Loghain did. I don't try and justify it, I don't try and excuse it. But in his mind he was acting in the interest of Ferelden. He was wrong, very wrong, but that doesn't mean he wasn't acting in accordance with his duty.

Loghain is a soldier who understands dedication to a higher cause. He understands war. He understands doing whatever is necessary to get the job done. . He's exactly the type of man who would thrive in the wardens, unlike, say, Anders or Bethany.

[Angrywolves]

not necessarily .
Loghain's blind hatred for Orlais makes him unsuitable as a warden.
Am surprised some players don't know Loghain can survive.
Thought everybody knew that.
shrugs.