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[Former_Fiend]

Angrywolves wrote...

not necessarily .
Loghain's blind hatred for Orlais makes him unsuitable as a warden.
Am surprised some players don't know Loghain can survive.
Thought everybody knew that.
shrugs.

By all accounts- both his personal reaction to being sent to Orlais as seen in the ending to Origins and his cameo in Awakening, as well as his epilogues, he apparently gets over his Orlais hate. If not completely, then enough to do his duty.

Someone, I don't recall who, or if it was in this or some other thread, suggested an introduction scene for him if he shows up in DAI; the inquisitor comes upon a burning Orleasian city and finds Loghain in the local tavern, enjoying a pint before going out to join the fight.

I think that would suit him perfectly; not at all broken up that an Orleasian town is burning, but he's still going to do his job and defend it. Right after a drink.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...


I don't see him as a begger or hamlet; if he's alive, he's a warden, and if there is one warden who would not abandon his duty for personal reasons, it would be Loghain. 

What? It could be argued that Loghain abandoned his duty to his king due his own petty jealousy and life long resentment of Maric. 

Loghain had no duty to a king. He had a duty to a kingdom.

Now I don't agree with most of what Loghain did. I don't try and justify it, I don't try and excuse it. But in his mind he was acting in the interest of Ferelden. He was wrong, very wrong, but that doesn't mean he wasn't acting in accordance with his duty.

Loghain is a soldier who understands dedication to a higher cause. He understands war. He understands doing whatever is necessary to get the job done. . He's exactly the type of man who would thrive in the wardens, unlike, say, Anders or Bethany.

Please, Loghain may have tried to rationalize what he did, but in the end allowing Cailin to die was his final revenge on Maric for getting the marry Rowen. 

[animedreamer]

 He can't come back in mine as he's dead... in only one playthru did i let him live and join the wardens and thats when i married his daughter.

[animedreamer]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...


I don't see him as a begger or hamlet; if he's alive, he's a warden, and if there is one warden who would not abandon his duty for personal reasons, it would be Loghain. 

What? It could be argued that Loghain abandoned his duty to his king due his own petty jealousy and life long resentment of Maric. 

Loghain had no duty to a king. He had a duty to a kingdom.

Now I don't agree with most of what Loghain did. I don't try and justify it, I don't try and excuse it. But in his mind he was acting in the interest of Ferelden. He was wrong, very wrong, but that doesn't mean he wasn't acting in accordance with his duty.

Loghain is a soldier who understands dedication to a higher cause. He understands war. He understands doing whatever is necessary to get the job done. . He's exactly the type of man who would thrive in the wardens, unlike, say, Anders or Bethany.

Please, Loghain may have tried to rationalize what he did, but in the end allowing Cailin to die was his final revenge on Maric for getting the marry Rowen. 

Final Revenge should have been done when he nailed Rowen while they were out on recon during the rebel king days.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So I saw that not that many people chose "the old god baby" ritual? really? I like chose it in every single origin.....

Enough of that... So the most we'll see of Loghain then is probably a cameo and that's about it if at all. Ah, he would relish slaying Orlesians. That's why I spared him. Plus his VA is one of my favorites.

[Magdalena11]

As far as Loghain goes, I think he loved Ferelden with a ferocity that became his downfall. I think if there was any rivalry/jealousy with Maric, that was buried with Rowan. Cailan was something different, perhaps a dreamy-eyed fool who believed the stories without knowing the actual history? Maric had a couple boys at least whose mother wasn't Rowan. Loghain knew of at least Alistair and that couldn't have done his memory of Maric any good.

I don't know if this would or should have any role in a future game. I'm OK with letting Loghain reside in doubt. There are times when I'd rather not know what would have happened. Maybe the whole Maric/Alistair/Fiona's baby deal will be resolved but I think if it is, it will be in the books and not in game. I'm ready for a new story.

[Shark17676]

Loghain was a fool, a traitor, and a madman. I only spared his life and recruited him once just for the sake of completeness, and then I deleted the save. Every other time I gave him his well-deserved execution and made sure that all the land knew what a disgraceful mongrel he really was. (I think most will agree that splattering his blood all over his entitled brat was one of the best parts of the game).

The only way I'll tolerate any acknowledgement of him in Inquisition is if I can spit on his grave.

Modifié par Shark17676, 22 octobre 2013 - 06:02 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

If only to hear Simon Templeman's voice, yes.

I couldn't care if he turned up in a world where my Warden killed him, just to hear that godly voice again, Loghain can come back to life anytime he wants and anywhere.

[Annie_Dear]

Elton John is dead wrote...

If only to hear Simon Templeman's voice, yes.

I couldn't care if he turned up in a world where my Warden killed him, just to hear that godly voice again, Loghain can come back to life anytime he wants and anywhere.

Maybe we'll meet his lesser known twin brother, Logan? 

[Nethalf]

What could be better than killing Loghain? Killing him twice!
So yeah, I'm soooo on board with Loghain's returning 

Modifié par Nethalf, 22 octobre 2013 - 10:13 .

[Former_Fiend]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...



Please, Loghain may have tried to rationalize what he did, but in the end allowing Cailin to die was his final revenge on Maric for getting the marry Rowen. 

Loghain told her to marry him. He wasn't happy about it, but he didn't blame Maric for being the one to "get the girl". 

I'm not saying Loghain's betrayal of Calian didn't have personal motivations, but they were more in relation to Calian's actions; cheating on Anora and plotting to leave her for Celene.

[Former_Fiend]

Shark17676 wrote...

Loghain was a fool, a traitor, and a madman. I only spared his life and recruited him once just for the sake of completeness, and then I deleted the save. Every other time I gave him his well-deserved execution and made sure that all the land knew what a disgraceful mongrel he really was. (I think most will agree that splattering his blood all over his entitled brat was one of the best parts of the game).

The only way I'll tolerate any acknowledgement of him in Inquisition is if I can spit on his grave.

You know what, I am honestly getting tired of this. 

Do you hate Loghain so much so as not to be satisfied with him being dead in your save? Does the very fact that he survived at others, that he had the possibility of surviving stab at you?

[AlexanderCousland]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Please, Loghain may have tried to rationalize what he did, but in the end allowing Cailin to die was his final revenge on Maric for getting the marry Rowen. 

LMFAO. Because a Female?

Lohgain could have let King Maric himself die inside of Kinloch Hold when The Architect and The First Enchanter had him prisoner. I dont think he would wait 30 years for a Darkspawn Horde he had no Idea was coming just so he could ruin his own legacy. 

[dragonflight288]

More often than not, I kill Loghain, mainly for his actions after Ostagar. However, in my most recent playthrough, I spared him, did Return to Ostagar with him and Wynne, talked with him and gained a perspective I most certainly lacked before.

I no longer blame Loghain for Ostagar, and I can't find fault with him trying to make sure Ferelden was united before facing the Darkspawn, and I now blame the bannorn more for the civil war than for him.

What I do know is, that for my playthrough where Loghain lived and I did the Dark Ritual, since Loghain was sent to Orlais anyway that I most certainly would love to see him make a reappearance. Especially if he has some dialogue with Nathanial and Alistair.

[cicero740]

Former_Fiend wrote...

cicero740 wrote...

I keep him alive and make Alistar the king. even though alistar does not come with us so he will still be in the area so 4 grey wardens are better than and if me riordran and loghain get killed alistar will still be there to take another shot at the archdemon, i doubt he will be a sour puss with everything resting on his shoulders. Loghain would probably be at the grey warden fort in Orlais, either that or in the deep roads most probably dead.I would like to see him as a beggar in val royeaux or settled down in some orlesian hamlet just to make him a sympathetic charachter his rise and fall.I would like to see Natheniel also I like the howe family saga to continue.

I don't see him as a begger or hamlet; if he's alive, he's a warden, and if there is one warden who would not abandon his duty for personal reasons, it would be Loghain. 

I thought you could leave the wardens just that the taint keeps calling you back

[cicero740]

Loghain did not know about cailan marrying celene unless you take him back to ostagar with you. he tries to plead with Cailan not to expose himself in the front line. Cailan's plan was stupid. If the king dies in the battle moral might be lost and it could be a rout. Loghain saved what was left of the fereldan army. though he( loghain) also treats the blight like a regular human army which it is not.his pride against Orlais gets in the way

[Former_Fiend]

cicero740 wrote...

Loghain did not know about cailan marrying celene unless you take him back to ostagar with you. he tries to plead with Cailan not to expose himself in the front line. Cailan's plan was stupid. If the king dies in the battle moral might be lost and it could be a rout. Loghain saved what was left of the fereldan army. though he( loghain) also treats the blight like a regular human army which it is not.his pride against Orlais gets in the way

Gaider has claimed that while Loghain didn't know the specifics, he knew something was up. This is hinted at in game where you talk to Calian's guard and he'll tell you about how Loghain and the King were arguing about Anora, and how it was quite heated. 

It was also suggested or hinted somewhere(I'm going to need to double check this) that Eamon had been pushing Calian to ditch Anora for the better part of a year due to fears she was barren. It's hardly inconcievable that Loghain found out about that.

[Former_Fiend]

cicero740 wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

cicero740 wrote...

I keep him alive and make Alistar the king. even though alistar does not come with us so he will still be in the area so 4 grey wardens are better than and if me riordran and loghain get killed alistar will still be there to take another shot at the archdemon, i doubt he will be a sour puss with everything resting on his shoulders. Loghain would probably be at the grey warden fort in Orlais, either that or in the deep roads most probably dead.I would like to see him as a beggar in val royeaux or settled down in some orlesian hamlet just to make him a sympathetic charachter his rise and fall.I would like to see Natheniel also I like the howe family saga to continue.

I don't see him as a begger or hamlet; if he's alive, he's a warden, and if there is one warden who would not abandon his duty for personal reasons, it would be Loghain. 

I thought you could leave the wardens just that the taint keeps calling you back

It's somewhat up for debate on just how viable leave the Wardens is. Alistair had special circumstances. Anders pretty much escaped and went underground. And we don't know the circumstances of Fiona leaving them. Riorden does suggest that the only thing really keeping people in is the sense of duty and honor and that you can leave whenever you want.

I just don't think Loghain would. I think the Wardens is exactly the type of enviorment he's suited for. He has a clear purpose, defined enemies, and no politics and nobles to frustrate him.

Anders leaves the wardens because he hates authority in all it's forms. Alistair leaves because he can't handle the realities of what the organization is. Fiona leaves because the devs really like her and want her to be the head of all mages. Bethany suffers because she's not suited for the sacrifices and horrors of war.

Loghain's not like them. The only reason he might leave the Wardens is his seething hatred for Orlais, but even then, as I've mentioned, he's apparently willing to put that aside. 

[UC SIM]

I'm being bad and not readthough the 10 or so pages prior.

Loughain's played his part. What might be interesting is a reference character to him, someone who in other circumstances would have been one of Loughains close associates.

An Orlaisian General from the wars in Ferelden with a burning hatred of Ferelden. The Mirror image of Loughain. Won great recognition in his victories wherever he was posted their was success... But those damn pampered nobles lost him the war, while he was in the fields quelling uprising after uprising... He is pissed, he wants vengeance and nobody quite understands why, but those damned nobility lost him his personal war, he had to pull out, leave Ferelden behind but he had almost done it, slashed his Cutlass across Loughains blasted neck.

Modifié par UC SIM, 23 octobre 2013 - 12:05 .

[TEWR]

I just don't think Loghain would. I think the Wardens is exactly the type of enviorment he's suited for. He has a clear purpose, defined enemies, and no politics and nobles to frustrate him.

Anders leaves the wardens because he hates authority in all it's forms. Alistair leaves because he can't handle the realities of what the organization is. Fiona leaves because the devs really like her and want her to be the head of all mages. Bethany suffers because she's not suited for the sacrifices and horrors of war.

Loghain's not like them. The only reason he might leave the Wardens is his seething hatred for Orlais, but even then, as I've mentioned, he's apparently willing to put that aside.

Ehhh, he'd probably still have to deal with politics and nobles. Being the Hero of River Dane in Orlais, he would no doubt be attending functions and whatnot. The Order is trying to gain influence in the other nations after the Fifth Blight, and Loghain's definitely a political prize that will help them.

Beyond that, I can't see him staying on the sidelines if Orlais were to mount an invasion of Ferelden again. No... he'd be pissed off and start flipping tables and punching chevaliers in the face.

He would then grab a majestic ebony mare and make for Ferelden's borders while the midnight rain gently caresses his skin, with thoughts of kin and country driving him forward.

The man's a patriot through and through. Everything he does stems from a love of the land he grew up in.

He would not sit idly while his homeland was threatened.

[Former_Fiend]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I just don't think Loghain would. I think the Wardens is exactly the type of enviorment he's suited for. He has a clear purpose, defined enemies, and no politics and nobles to frustrate him.

Anders leaves the wardens because he hates authority in all it's forms. Alistair leaves because he can't handle the realities of what the organization is. Fiona leaves because the devs really like her and want her to be the head of all mages. Bethany suffers because she's not suited for the sacrifices and horrors of war.

Loghain's not like them. The only reason he might leave the Wardens is his seething hatred for Orlais, but even then, as I've mentioned, he's apparently willing to put that aside.

Ehhh, he'd probably still have to deal with politics and nobles. Being the Hero of River Dane in Orlais, he would no doubt be attending functions and whatnot. The Order is trying to gain influence in the other nations after the Fifth Blight, and Loghain's definitely a political prize that will help them.

Beyond that, I can't see him staying on the sidelines if Orlais were to mount an invasion of Ferelden again. No... he'd be pissed off and start flipping tables and punching chevaliers in the face.

He would then grab a majestic ebony mare and make for Ferelden's borders while the midnight rain gently caresses his skin, with thoughts of kin and country driving him forward.

The man's a patriot through and through. Everything he does stems from a love of the land he grew up in.

He would not sit idly while his homeland was threatened.

I suppose an orlesian invasion may well drive him to desertion. But that invasion may or may not be happening within his lifetime.

The Masked Empire- at least the blurbs for it- seem to hint at an Orlesian civil war and elven uprisings in the immediate future. I think between that, the mage-templar war, and a demonic invasion, Orlais may well put any plans of re-conquering Ferelden on hold. 

And yes, Loghain would have to put up with the nobility to an extent, and I'm sure those parties would be hell on him, but it would be a smaller part of his job. 

[cicero740]

Former_Fiend wrote...

cicero740 wrote...

Loghain did not know about cailan marrying celene unless you take him back to ostagar with you. he tries to plead with Cailan not to expose himself in the front line. Cailan's plan was stupid. If the king dies in the battle moral might be lost and it could be a rout. Loghain saved what was left of the fereldan army. though he( loghain) also treats the blight like a regular human army which it is not.his pride against Orlais gets in the way

Gaider has claimed that while Loghain didn't know the specifics, he knew something was up. This is hinted at in game where you talk to Calian's guard and he'll tell you about how Loghain and the King were arguing about Anora, and how it was quite heated. 

It was also suggested or hinted somewhere(I'm going to need to double check this) that Eamon had been pushing Calian to ditch Anora for the better part of a year due to fears she was barren. It's hardly inconcievable that Loghain found out about that.

I doubt he would betray a large part of the army because of his daughter, he puts duty above his personal feelings(except when it is about Orlais).if he does that than he surley needs to be executed except for that fact he's a great warrior and the more wardens the better when you have no choice. I think he would rather be in the deep roads than in some orlesian fort bossed around by orlesians all day.Loghain is probably a broken man after origins and awakening, so seeing little desire to live.

[Former_Fiend]

[quote]cicero740 wrote...



[/quote] I doubt he would betray a large part of the army because of his daughter, he puts duty above his personal feelings(except when it is about Orlais).if he does that than he surley needs to be executed except for that fact he's a great warrior and the more wardens the better when you have no choice. I think he would rather be in the deep roads than in some orlesian fort bossed around by orlesians all day.Loghain is probably a broken man after origins and awakening, so seeing little desire to live.
[/quote]

Well, his reasons for abandoning the army were complicated. I'm just saying Calian's plan to leave Anora factored into it. Made it easier for Loghain to leave Calian to die, if nothing else. 

[dragonflight288]

Former_Fiend wrote...

cicero740 wrote...

I doubt he would betray a large part of the army because of his daughter, he puts duty above his personal feelings(except when it is about Orlais).if he does that than he surley needs to be executed except for that fact he's a great warrior and the more wardens the better when you have no choice. I think he would rather be in the deep roads than in some orlesian fort bossed around by orlesians all day.Loghain is probably a broken man after origins and awakening, so seeing little desire to live.


Well, his reasons for abandoning the army were complicated. I'm just saying Calian's plan to leave Anora factored into it. Made it easier for Loghain to leave Calian to die, if nothing else.

There's also the fact that the beacon was lit late, Cailan ordered a charge outside of the a highly defensible location and got surrounded on all sides, Loghain personally witnessed Grey Wardens making deals with Darkspawn (the Architect) in The Calling so he already was suspicious of them, and Orlais has a history in the third blight of going to aid another country with the darkspawn, and then never leavng.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:30 .

[Archaven]

Hmm.. are we asking a Dragon Age Origins 2 or Dragon Age Inquisition? Hmm...