290 réponses à ce sujet

[Lavaeolus]

Nightwing99 wrote...

Without the Wardens [/i] the war itself can not be won

He didn't know that at the time. No one knew about the Archdemon thing, and even if he heard their legends, those are not always true and Loghain is an untrusting, somewhat bitter man. Does he deserve to die because of it?

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Why kill him now, when it will achieve nothing?

Modifié par Mr Maniac, 17 juin 2013 - 12:47 .

[Nole]

I rather see Alistair again.

[Nightwing99]

simfamSP wrote...

Nightwing99 wrote...

I'm sorry, but the idea of any one wants to keep this man alive is silly what he almost did a hundred times worse than what Anders did in Dragon Age 2

if his plan at Ostagar was successful and all the Grey Warden get Killed and him Stoping others Grey Warden from crossing the border ferelden Will be destroyed with no chance of survival

And Jaime Lannister cripples a young boy; it still doesn't mean I hate him. Morally grey characters are usually the best, and that's why Loghain is one of the best characters BioWare has ever written, and I guess it's the reason why I love him.

I'm sorry but you can not compare cripples a young boy with almost causing the deaths  of  a whole nation 

[Sanunes]

Mr Maniac wrote...

Nightwing99 wrote...

Without the Wardens [/i] the war itself can not be won

He didn't know that at the time. No one knew about the Archdemon thing, and even if he heard their legends, those are not always true and Loghain is an untrusting, somewhat bitter man. Does he deserve to die because of it?

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Why kill him now, when it will achieve nothing?

Because that is the justice of the time, he abandoned the field of combat and left his King, the King's Army, and the Wardens to die, when signaled to enter the combat.  They were leaving a man in a cage in Ostagar because he deserted and he was going to be hung for his crimes, how is what Lohgain did any better then that?

[Lavaeolus]

WittingEight65 wrote...

I rather see Alistair again.

Alistair should definitely get mentioned at some point if he's king, but we've already had him cameo in both Awakening and II. I think we've seen enough of him, for the moment at least.

Modifié par Mr Maniac, 17 juin 2013 - 01:03 .

[NoForgiveness]

uhh.. its wise to be a coward and abandon your king and betray your best friend in the entire world by doing so? And then steal his throne?

Modifié par MR_PN, 17 juin 2013 - 12:55 .

[KiwiQuiche]

You keep on spelling his name wrong.


It's annoying.

EDIT: I approve of these changes. Four for you, Captain. Four for you.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 17 juin 2013 - 12:59 .

[Capt. Obvious]

Sanunes wrote...

Mr Maniac wrote...

Nightwing99 wrote...

Without the Wardens [/i] the war itself can not be won

He didn't know that at the time. No one knew about the Archdemon thing, and even if he heard their legends, those are not always true and Loghain is an untrusting, somewhat bitter man. Does he deserve to die because of it?

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Why kill him now, when it will achieve nothing?

Because that is the justice of the time, he abandoned the field of combat and left his King, the King's Army, and the Wardens to die, when signaled to enter the combat.  They were leaving a man in a cage in Ostagar because he deserted and he was going to be hung for his crimes, how is what Lohgain did any better then that?

The Ferelden army at Ostagar would have been destroyed with or without Lohgain's forces joining the fray. It was good of Lohgain to retreat. Now, what Lohgain did afterwards was pretty bad.

[NoForgiveness]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

The Ferelden army at Ostagar would have been destroyed with or without Lohgain's forces joining the fray. It was good of Lohgain to retreat. Now, what Lohgain did afterwards was pretty bad.

The king was the person that had ferelden united and had grey wardens. He was the one that could stop the blight. His life was worth more then all the men in the army and Loghain. Even if the battle was a failure he could have gotten the king out before the army retreated.

[Melca36]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

The last sentence is definitely asking too much, but I wouldn't rule out an appearance if he was spared (though, I do think it somewhat unlikely).

Remember though that Loghain was relatively old in Origins (I'd guess at approaching his sixties, if he wasn't there already) and ten years have passed since then, how many years has he realistically got left?

Twenty years due to the Joining ceremony. Besides, while he might not be able to fight, he can still command troops of the Grey Wardens.

Um...The game takes place 10 years after the Blight and the Wardens have 30 years

[Capt. Obvious]

Melca36 wrote...

Capt. Obvious wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

The last sentence is definitely asking too much, but I wouldn't rule out an appearance if he was spared (though, I do think it somewhat unlikely).

Remember though that Loghain was relatively old in Origins (I'd guess at approaching his sixties, if he wasn't there already) and ten years have passed since then, how many years has he realistically got left?

Twenty years due to the Joining ceremony. Besides, while he might not be able to fight, he can still command troops of the Grey Wardens.

Um...The game takes place 10 years after the Blight and the Wardens have 30 years

10 years have passed, so technically Loghain only has 20 years... at most.

[Lavaeolus]

Melca36 wrote...

Um...The game takes place 10 years after the Blight and the Wardens have 30 years

Keep in mind they have 30 years, give-or-take. Loghain would probably still be around after 10, though.

[Melca36]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Nightwing99 wrote...

I'm sorry, but the idea of any one wants to keep this man alive is silly what he almost did a hundred times worse than what Anders did in Dragon Age 2

if his plan at Ostagar was successful and all the Grey Warden get Killed and him Stoping others Grey Warden from crossing the border ferelden Will be destroyed with no chance of survival

Anders started a war that could tear Thedas apart. Loghain was also wise to retreat as the Battle at Ostagar couldn't be won.

So you support slavery?  The fact that he was so willing to deal with Tevinter yet so fearful of Orlais kind of makes him a HUGE hypocrite in my opinion.   And how many people of Ferelden died because of the Civil War?

The truth of the matter is Loghain suffered from  Post Traumatic Disorder which caused his paranoia. His stubborn determination caused alot of lives to be needelessly lost

[Capt. Obvious]

Melca36 wrote...

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Nightwing99 wrote...

I'm sorry, but the idea of any one wants to keep this man alive is silly what he almost did a hundred times worse than what Anders did in Dragon Age 2

if his plan at Ostagar was successful and all the Grey Warden get Killed and him Stoping others Grey Warden from crossing the border ferelden Will be destroyed with no chance of survival

Anders started a war that could tear Thedas apart. Loghain was also wise to retreat as the Battle at Ostagar couldn't be won.

So you support slavery?  The fact that he was so willing to deal with Tevinter yet so fearful of Orlais kind of makes him a HUGE hypocrite in my opinion.   And how many people of Ferelden died because of the Civil War?

The truth of the matter is Loghain suffered from  Post Traumatic Disorder which caused his paranoia. His stubborn determination caused alot of lives to be needelessly lost

Actually, I don't which is why I feel bad for Loghain not knowing what was happening behind his back. As for the Civil War, lots. But the number of deaths on his hand only serve to make him more intriguing, much better than that whiney ******-ant Alistair.

Of course, I still like Howe a little bit more.

[Lavaeolus]

@Melca: Loghain was wrong, but he's not an evil man. Misguided, kind of a jerk, and cause of all sorts of suffering... but he's not just pure evil. Killing him now doesn't help anyone, and just because someone has caused bad things does not make it right to do bad things to them.

Modifié par Mr Maniac, 17 juin 2013 - 01:10 .

[duckley]

I really don't understand it. I had the impression that Loghain never intended to assist Cailen. I thought he decided he knew better than the King and did not want the Wardens or any possible alliance with the Orlesians. With Cailen dead he would in essence rule Ferelde - no wardens, no Orlesians. He left hundred of men to die including his son-in-law, and instigated a civil war at a time when the country needed unity, again putting his own hatred above all else. Again, because he knew best he tried to murder Eamon and wipe out any opposition that might come from the Cousland clan by allowing Howe to slaughter them. Unless my understanding is in error, I dont see anything morally grey here.

[Lavaeolus]

@above: I saw a dev. comment somewhere that he never intended to kill Eamon. Can't find the link, but he only wanted him out-of-the-picture for the moment.

That's what that elven spy dude was for. To keep an eye in case Eamon worsened or, possibly, got better.

EDIT: Also, Loghain did not sanction the attack on the Couslands. Howe just powergrabbed, and then Loghain became heavily reliant on his political knowledge. I'm not even sure how much Loghain knew about it, but I will admit it's not unlikely he put the pieces together.

Modifié par Mr Maniac, 17 juin 2013 - 01:46 .

[AshenShug4r]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

I warmed up to Loghain quite a bit as a result of debating him on DAO forum. At first my attitude toward him was he's an unscrupulous bastard deserving nothing but death.

After reading things from the pro-Loghain perspective, I loosened my harsh opinion of him. Now I see him more as a "Renegade Shepherd." Willing to do whatever it takes to win, no matter how harsh.

I still don't have a high opinion of him, but now I plan on letting him live so Alistair and Anora can rule together.

My warden executed him personally and Alistair and Anora are ruling together.

[Dabrikishaw]

Everybody gets one.

[jessielou]

Wait... When was it decided that The Battle of Ostagar could never have been won? They had troops, they had a plan, and they had Grey Wardens had the archdemon shown itself. I've never seen or heard any evidence that suggests had Loghain not packed up and gone home that they would have still been defeated. They may not have stopped the Blight then and there, that depends on whether the archdemon had shown up, but I don't see any reason they couldn't have put a big hurt on the horde.

As for whether he'll show up if he's still alive, if I'm not mistaken he was sent to Orlais, Montsimmard to be specific. This is pure speculation but I'm guessing that Grey Warden base being attacked in the trailer is Montsimmard. It's located right about where Cassandra got stabby with that map and is also home to a Circle of Magi. If he's alive and going to pop in for a visit, I'd guess it would be there. (If we actually go there).

Modifié par jessielou, 17 juin 2013 - 02:01 .

[duckley]

Mr Maniac wrote...

@above: I saw a dev. comment somewhere that he never intended to kill Eamon. Can't find the link, but he only wanted him out-of-the-picture for the moment.

That's what that elven spy dude was for. To keep an eye in case Eamon worsened or, possibly, got better.

EDIT: Also, Loghain did not sanction the attack on the Couslands. Howe just powergrabbed, and then Loghain became heavily reliant on his political knowledge. I'm not even sure how much Loghain knew about it, but I will admit it's not unlikely he put the pieces together.

Fair  enough but just poisoning someone to get him out of the way is not exactly stellar behaviour. And while he may not have sanctioned Howe' s killing of the Couslands he certainly knew about it and continued to work in alliance with him, even agreeing to hire a assasin to kill the Warden, instead of  bringing him to justice. I just don' t  see any redeeming qualities about him and dont get the Loghain love 

[ParatrooperSean]

AshenShug4r wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

I warmed up to Loghain quite a bit as a result of debating him on DAO forum. At first my attitude toward him was he's an unscrupulous bastard deserving nothing but death.

After reading things from the pro-Loghain perspective, I loosened my harsh opinion of him. Now I see him more as a "Renegade Shepherd." Willing to do whatever it takes to win, no matter how harsh.

I still don't have a high opinion of him, but now I plan on letting him live so Alistair and Anora can rule together.

My warden executed him personally and Alistair and Anora are ruling together.

Wait... you can do that?