290 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

He was a little on the dead side in many games, so I doubt they'd use him in any major capacity. But I wouldn't be surprised at a cameo that could feature him or someone else if he's dead.

Isn't Simon Templeton pretty expensive as a VA?

[Nole]

duckley wrote...

Mr Maniac wrote...

@above: I saw a dev. comment somewhere that he never intended to kill Eamon. Can't find the link, but he only wanted him out-of-the-picture for the moment.

That's what that elven spy dude was for. To keep an eye in case Eamon worsened or, possibly, got better.

EDIT: Also, Loghain did not sanction the attack on the Couslands. Howe just powergrabbed, and then Loghain became heavily reliant on his political knowledge. I'm not even sure how much Loghain knew about it, but I will admit it's not unlikely he put the pieces together.

Fair  enough but just poisoning someone to get him out of the way is not exactly stellar behaviour. And while he may not have sanctioned Howe' s killing of the Couslands he certainly knew about it and continued to work in alliance with him, even agreeing to hire a assasin to kill the Warden, instead of  bringing him to justice. I just don' t  see any redeeming qualities about him and dont get the Loghain love 

And even more, if you don't read The Stolen Throne (the novel that made Loghain "the best character that Bioware has created"), Loghain is nothing more than an insane person making stupid desicions.

[duckley]

@Witting - I did read Stolen Throne and for some Loghain supporters, his tough upbringing apparently explains (pr excuses) his behaviour in DA:O - however, not as far as I am concerned.

[Mr.House]

Would be great to see Loghain killing Orlesians in a burning Val Royeaux and then have the option to share a mug with him in DA3.

Modifié par Mr.House, 17 juin 2013 - 02:32 .

[Capt. Obvious]

jessielou wrote...

Wait... When was it decided that The Battle of Ostagar could never have been won? They had troops, they had a plan, and they had Grey Wardens had the archdemon shown itself. I've never seen or heard any evidence that suggests had Loghain not packed up and gone home that they would have still been defeated. They may not have stopped the Blight then and there, that depends on whether the archdemon had shown up, but I don't see any reason they couldn't have put a big hurt on the horde.
 

The Darkspawn horde was too big in numbers and even one of King Cailan's honour guard doubted that they could hold Ostagar against the Darkspawn. Also, keep in mind that when Loghain ordered his men to retreat, King Cailan and Duncan only had a few soldiers left. They were fighting to the last man at the point while the Darkspawn were still advancing. Even if they could get to King Cailan in time before he died, they would have still lost a lot of men, that is, if they even survived, which was unlikely at that point.

[Sanunes]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

AshenShug4r wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

I warmed up to Loghain quite a bit as a result of debating him on DAO forum. At first my attitude toward him was he's an unscrupulous bastard deserving nothing but death.

After reading things from the pro-Loghain perspective, I loosened my harsh opinion of him. Now I see him more as a "Renegade Shepherd." Willing to do whatever it takes to win, no matter how harsh.

I still don't have a high opinion of him, but now I plan on letting him live so Alistair and Anora can rule together.

My warden executed him personally and Alistair and Anora are ruling together.

Wait... you can do that?

Yes, but you have to 'harden' Alistair with specific conversation option after meeting his sister.

[Melca36]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Nightwing99 wrote...

I'm sorry, but the idea of any one wants to keep this man alive is silly what he almost did a hundred times worse than what Anders did in Dragon Age 2

if his plan at Ostagar was successful and all the Grey Warden get Killed and him Stoping others Grey Warden from crossing the border ferelden Will be destroyed with no chance of survival

Anders started a war that could tear Thedas apart. Loghain was also wise to retreat as the Battle at Ostagar couldn't be won.

So you support slavery?  The fact that he was so willing to deal with Tevinter yet so fearful of Orlais kind of makes him a HUGE hypocrite in my opinion.   And how many people of Ferelden died because of the Civil War?

The truth of the matter is Loghain suffered from  Post Traumatic Disorder which caused his paranoia. His stubborn determination caused alot of lives to be needelessly lost

Actually, I don't which is why I feel bad for Loghain not knowing what was happening behind his back. As for the Civil War, lots. But the number of deaths on his hand only serve to make him more intriguing, much better than that whiney ******-ant Alistair.

Of course, I still like Howe a little bit more.

How can you like Howe?  He had countless people tortured.

[Capt. Obvious]

duckley wrote...

@Witting - I did read Stolen Throne and for some Loghain supporters, his tough upbringing apparently explains (pr excuses) his behaviour in DA:O - however, not as far as I am concerned.

Hey, I never said that his tough upbringing excused some of his bad actions, but that they made them more understandable(coming from someone like him, at least). Besides, it also made Loghain into an even more fascinating character.

I can't say the same thing for Alistair. He was too much of a goody two-shoes and he always whined and ****ed to no end, which is partly why I let him leave me at the Landsmeet and let Loghain join the Wardens.

Modifié par Capt. Obvious, 17 juin 2013 - 02:56 .

[Capt. Obvious]

Morocco Mole wrote...

How can you like Howe? He had countless people tortured.

Tim Curry is a hard man to resist

Pretty much this.

Besides, he reminded of Littlefinger from A Song of Ice and Fire and Francis Urquhart from House of Cards(UK version), except he knew how to fight. What can I say? I have soft spot for Machiavellian-type characters, even if most of them are pretty bad people.

[jessielou]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

The Darkspawn horde was too big in numbers and even one of King Cailan's honour guard doubted that they could hold Ostagar against the Darkspawn. Also, keep in mind that when Loghain ordered his men to retreat, King Cailan and Duncan only had a few soldiers left. They were fighting to the last man at the point while the Darkspawn were still advancing. Even if they could get to King Cailan in time before he died, they would have still lost a lot of men, that is, if they even survived, which was unlikely at that point.

Well firstly, I'm not much concerned with what Cailan's Honor Guard thought.  Second, they were having a rough time of it, but they were supposed to be.  They were the bait, drawing the horde into the valley so Loghain's troops could come in behind and trap them between the two armies.  The reason the horde was still advancing was because Loghain left and never engaged from the rear.

I'd also like to point out that there's not really anyway to tell how much time had passed between Loghain's retreat and when the true carnage in the valley began.  

[Melca36]

Mr Maniac wrote...

@Melca: Loghain was wrong, but he's not an evil man. Misguided, kind of a jerk, and cause of all sorts of suffering... but he's not just pure evil. Killing him now doesn't help anyone, and just because someone has caused bad things does not make it right to do bad things to them.

Don't care 9 out 10 times he dies.   He was not acting out of his devotion of Ferelden. His paranoia made him an unfit leader.

That said, if he did a cameo I would make the choice to let him live to see what the game is like.

[Lord of War]

Paranoia? About that massive empire that used own his homeland? The one that gleefully employs rape-knights? The one he fought tooth and nail to expunge?

[jessielou]

Cyrahzax wrote...

Paranoia? About that massive empire that used own his homeland? The one that gleefully employs rape-knights? The one he fought tooth and nail to expunge?

I assume you're refering to the "rape your wives" comment at the landsmeet?   I don't really think you get to use that one considering Lord Rapey McRapepants and his gang of Rapesters who were allowed to freely roam the Denerim Alienage.

Not to say I don't understand his problem with Orlais.  I get it.  I get him deciding Ferelden was better off without Cailan because of it.  It doesn't mean he wasn't paranoid though.  Had he not abandoned Cailan at Ostagar, basically usurped the throne, and started a civil war, I think he could have probably appealed to the rest of the nobility on the matter.  He was the Hero of River Dane.  His own actions are the only thing that tarnished his reputation and standing.

And before you say "Cailan was the king, he could do what he wanted", I think the Landsmeet is evidence to the contrary.  He would have needed the support of the Bannorn, and as Loghain himself pointed out he's not the only one that remembers the Orlesian occupation.

[Mr.House]

jessielou wrote...

Cyrahzax wrote...

Paranoia? About that massive empire that used own his homeland? The one that gleefully employs rape-knights? The one he fought tooth and nail to expunge?

I assume you're refering to the "rape your wives" comment at the landsmeet?   I don't really think you get to use that one considering Lord Rapey McRapepants and his gang of Rapesters who were allowed to freely roam the Denerim Alienage.

Not to say I don't understand his problem with Orlais.  I get it.  I get him deciding Ferelden was better off without Cailan because of it.  It doesn't mean he wasn't paranoid though.  Had he not abandoned Cailan at Ostagar, basically usurped the throne, and started a civil war, I think he could have probably appealed to the rest of the nobility on the matter.  He was the Hero of River Dane.  His own actions are the only thing that tarnished his reputation and standing.

And before you say "Cailan was the king, he could do what he wanted", I think the Landsmeet is evidence to the contrary.  He would have needed the support of the Bannorn, and as Loghain himself pointed out he's not the only one that remembers the Orlesian occupation.

Had Cailan listen and not be a complete utter idiot he would have survived because even if Loghain would have done his part at Ostagar, it still would have been a lost battle and Cailan would have still died. There was to many darkspawn. Cailans death was his own doing and the bulk of the army is far more important then some fool of a king who didn't even rule the country. Cailan should have stayed with Loghain, not be on the front lines. His lust for glory and honor killed him, not Loghain.

Modifié par Mr.House, 17 juin 2013 - 03:59 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If Alistair gets a cameo, I don't see why he couldn't get one.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 17 juin 2013 - 04:08 .

[Mr.House]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

If Alistair gets a cameo, I don't see why he couldn't get one.

Alistair got a useless cameo in DA2 yet Loghain got nothing but mentions.

[LPPrince]

I'm not gonna try to argue whether Loghain's decisions in DAO were good or bad or whatever else, I'm gonna stick to whether he should be in DA3-

HELL YES.

As much as I liked Alistair, I had to make Loghain a Grey Warden. He helped out, did his thing, and after he became a Warden revealed much about himself, his relationship with his daughter, his history with Orlais, his reasons for his previous actions, etc etc. GREAT stuff.

Then we met again in Awakening. Off to Orlais he said, to join the Warden contingent there.

Well? We're going to Orlais. Its been a good 10+ years since then, but he better be around.

And if he's not, I hope there's an awesome portion where we hear about what happened to him. His exploits in Orlais, what went down, etc etc.

Thing is- it would be MUCH better if he was still alive. If he replaced some new character for a similar role:

A. Loghain survives DAO- Loghain in DA3, supports Inquisitor, pro-Fereldan/anti-Orlais
B. Loghain dies in DAO- New character in DA3, less support for Inquisitor, anti-Fereldan/pro-Orlais

Would be cool stuff.

[Wolfva2]

Considering my warden lopped off his head, I'd really hate to see him come back in DA3. Unless he's an undead enemy of some sort.

[Mr.House]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Considering my warden lopped off his head, I'd really hate to see him come back in DA3. Unless he's an undead enemy of some sort.

Who said he has to come back for people who killed him?

[Daralii]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

AshenShug4r wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

I warmed up to Loghain quite a bit as a result of debating him on DAO forum. At first my attitude toward him was he's an unscrupulous bastard deserving nothing but death.

After reading things from the pro-Loghain perspective, I loosened my harsh opinion of him. Now I see him more as a "Renegade Shepherd." Willing to do whatever it takes to win, no matter how harsh.

I still don't have a high opinion of him, but now I plan on letting him live so Alistair and Anora can rule together.

My warden executed him personally and Alistair and Anora are ruling together.

Wait... you can do that?

If you hardened Alistair(telling him that's the way the world is after meeting his sister), you can convince him and Anora to have a political marriage, and they'll rule together. He'll go through with it even if you recruit Loghain.

Modifié par Daralii, 17 juin 2013 - 04:25 .

[TEWR]

"Loghain's a traitor because of Ostagar! TRAITOR!!!!"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

In my experience, this sums up far too many anti-Loghain people (what happens after Ostagar is fair game to call him out on, though I like to at least bring up what's going through the man's head because that's important too) but it gets really bad when people seem to act like sparing Loghain is somehow an idiot's choice.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 juin 2013 - 04:51 .

[jessielou]

Mr.House wrote...

Had Cailan listen and not be a complete utter idiot he would have survived because even if Loghain would have done his part at Ostagar, it still would have been a lost battle and Cailan would have still died. There was to many darkspawn. Cailans death was his own doing and the bulk of the army is far more important then some fool of a king who didn't even rule the country. Cailan should have stayed with Loghain, not be on the front lines. His lust for glory and honor killed him, not Loghain.

I never said Cailan wasn't an idiot.  And I agree that he shouldn't have been on the field.  But I still argue that there's no reason to think they couldn't have won had Loghain not retreated.  And you know what?  Maybe they wouldn't have.  I don't honestly know.  But I strongly disagree with this notion that it was a lost cause.  It's never presented that way.  And yes there were a lot of darkspawn, but they'd been sending out scouts and weren't completely ignorant to the size of the horde.  I don't recall anyone ever saying that the horde was much larger than they expected.

[Face of Evil]

I don't accept the cameos of deserters and regicides.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 17 juin 2013 - 04:30 .

[Melca36]

Cyrahzax wrote...

Paranoia? About that massive empire that used own his homeland? The one that gleefully employs rape-knights? The one he fought tooth and nail to expunge?

He needed to MOVE on. It was 30 years since the Rebellion. I wonder how stagnnant the Ferelden economy was because of people not being able to move forward.