290 réponses à ce sujet

[KoyoteN7]

Btw anyone knows who wrote Loghain? I am of opinion that, together with Kain from Legacy of Kain series, he is the best written video game character ever. So I am curious if whoever wrote him is still with Bioware.

Modifié par KoyoteN7, 17 juin 2013 - 07:58 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If I remember correctly, it was Mary Kirby.

[Capt. Obvious]

KoyoteN7 wrote...

Btw anyone knows who wrote Loghain? I am of opinion that, together with Kain from Legacy of Kain series, he is the best written video game character ever. So I am curious if whoever wrote him is still with Bioware.

I would certainly like to know as well. Dragon Age III needs someone like him.

I would also like to ask who wrote the Arishock in Dragon Age II.

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

If I remember correctly, it was Mary Kirby.

Ninja'd.

But anywho, do we know if she is going to participate in the writing process of Inquisition?

Modifié par Capt. Obvious, 17 juin 2013 - 07:59 .

[KoyoteN7]

I just googled her, she is indeed responsible for Loghain, Sten and Varric. Excellent track record, all different personalities as well. I hope she continues her work.

[FKA_Servo]

KoyoteN7 wrote...

Btw anyone knows who wrote Loghain? I am of opinion that, together with Kain from Legacy of Kain series, he is the best written video game character ever. So I am curious if whoever wrote him is still with Bioware.

That might just be the Templeman effect. Everything the man touches turns to Shakespeare.

[Mike 9987]

Him returning as a companion is highly unlikely mostly due to the fact that I bet the majority of players killed him off. I would love maybe a side quest or at least a cameo. I have him alive in one of my files, and he is a great character.

[KoyoteN7]

@Tommy
Indeed, his acting is making the character development even more natural. Video games legend.

Modifié par KoyoteN7, 17 juin 2013 - 08:10 .

[Capt. Obvious]

KoyoteN7 wrote...

I just googled her, she is indeed responsible for Loghain, Sten and Varric. Excellent track record, all different personalities as well. I hope she continues her work.

Wow. Those are some of my favorite characters right there.

Do we know if she is going to continue writing in Inquisition?

[Morroian]

I'd rather they create new intriguing characters and actually make them intriguing within the game. Loghain got his depth from the books rather than DAO itself.

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Except Wardens can't end the Blights on their own. They can only ensure there's a final battle.They absolutely need the aid of those so-called "irrelevant bodies", as Alistair and Duncan clearly discuss.

They're meatshields - but at the start of a blight, Ferelden is ****ed if the Wardens die. Loghain was one Flemeth intervention away from accidentally dooming all of Thedas. But as much as I don't think Loghain is competent, that one isn't on him. He has no way of planning for stuff that Duncan actively keeps from him.

EDIT: And let's assume for the moment that the Wardens and ONLY the Wardens made it out of there. Do you really think people wouldn't be the least bit suspicious that they somehow made it out of there alive but only them? Fereldan sympathies towards the Order is not actually very high. Vaughan's father is described as not being a fan of the Grey Wardens and then there's Howe. Beyond them, lesser nobility are not fans of the Wardens either.

I was talking about their relative tactical value. As to what Ferelden nobility will or won't do, with Loghain and Cailan dead Duncan might well have abandoned Ferelden anyway. That would have been his plan, per DG, if he lived. 

[In Exile]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Not really. Just because they can't kill the archdemon doesn't mean they can't kill darkspawn.

They're replaceable. When it comes down to who to save, short of your actual leaders, the Wardens trump any fighting force you have. 

None of that was Loghain's fault, since he wasn't told and could not be expected to guess.

Yeah, that's Duncan turn to hold the idiot ball. At least he's more competent than Riordan. 

The Civil War wasn't entirely Loghain's fault. He dropped the ball diffusing Teagan's suspicions, but Teagan raised them at exactly the wrong time.

Whether or not he dropped the ball isn't the point. If we're talking about whether Loghain charging would have been better or worse (re the impact on Ferelden), it matters whether or not there'd be a war. Though really with Howe civil war was clearly unavoidable. 

Valid utilitarian logic. Now feed that to its general. Make sure you trust your armor.

I'm just saying there's a difference between what Loghain wants and what the Wardens want. 

[Mike3207]

I wouldn't be surprised. I have no doubt the old guy will stick around until he's 120.He wants to live long enough to see the Orlesian Empire break up.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

In Exile wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Not really. Just because they can't kill the archdemon doesn't mean they can't kill darkspawn.

They're replaceable. When it comes down to who to save, short of your actual leaders, the Wardens trump any fighting force you have.

If you have to choose, and saving the Wardens is still on the table, I suppose you're right. Given the battle plan Loghain devised in the ignorance the Wardens kept him in, however, he ended up allowing them into a position where they couldn't be saved, and didn't know how bad a move that was until Riordan told him a year later. (If he lives that long.)

None of that was Loghain's fault, since he wasn't told and could not be expected to guess.

Yeah, that's Duncan turn to hold the idiot ball. At least he's more competent than Riordan.

The only good thing about all this idiocy is that at least it helps the PC Warden become rich and famous.

The Civil War wasn't entirely Loghain's fault. He dropped the ball diffusing Teagan's suspicions, but Teagan raised them at exactly the wrong time.

Whether or not he dropped the ball isn't the point. If we're talking about whether Loghain charging would have been better or worse (re the impact on Ferelden), it matters whether or not there'd be a war. Though really with Howe civil war was clearly unavoidable.

And there wouldn't have been one if he died? The nobles of the Bannorn are known for going to war over apple trees. Given that Loghain was the clear leader of Ferelden legally, (whether or not you like him, the sitting queen delegated him such of the power he used as he wasn't already entitled to) and quickly mopped up those who defied him regardless, I don't see his death improving things.

Valid utilitarian logic. Now feed that to its general. Make sure you trust your armor.

I'm just saying there's a difference between what Loghain wants and what the Wardens want. 

That's what I was saying too. I'm also saying I wouldn't want to be the person informing Loghain what the Wardens want.

[In Exile]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
If you have to choose, and saving the Wardens is still on the table, I suppose you're right. Given the battle plan Loghain devised in the ignorance the Wardens kept him in, however, he ended up allowing them into a position where they couldn't be saved, and didn't know how bad a move that was until Riordan told him a year later. (If he lives that long.)

I wasn't blaming Loghain. I was blaming Duncan for that one. It was his place to go "Wait, sticking your only anti-archdemon weapon in their killzone is dumb" at the meeting.

And there wouldn't have been one if he died? The nobles of the Bannorn are known for going to war over apple trees. Given that Loghain was the clear leader of Ferelden legally, (whether or not you like him, the sitting queen delegated him such of the power he used as he wasn't already entitled to) and quickly mopped up those who defied him regardless, I don't see his death improving things.

I wouldn't use things such as "legally" when it comes to medieval laws of succession. More likely, Loghain was likely disqualified for his retreat. which constitutes treason against his liege lord (Cailain was a moron, but he didn't breach the feudal contract by being really gung-ho about that battle). 

As for mopping up, that Loghain was seemingly winning the war without Eamon having entered it doesn't really seem to be succestive of "quickly". 

That's what I was saying too. I'm also saying I wouldn't want to be the person informing Loghain what the Wardens want.

I'm pretty sure if it came to that, Loghain wouldn't have been around to hear it. 

[BlueMagitek]

Loghain could have chosen better allies, but the bloodline fetish of the nobility is sickening, so sometimes the devil you know (Howe) might be preferable to trash (everyone else).

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

In Exile wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
If you have to choose, and saving the Wardens is still on the table, I suppose you're right. Given the battle plan Loghain devised in the ignorance the Wardens kept him in, however, he ended up allowing them into a position where they couldn't be saved, and didn't know how bad a move that was until Riordan told him a year later. (If he lives that long.)

I wasn't blaming Loghain. I was blaming Duncan for that one. It was his place to go "Wait, sticking your only anti-archdemon weapon in their killzone is dumb" at the meeting.

So, we agree there?

And there wouldn't have been one if he died? The nobles of the Bannorn are known for going to war over apple trees. Given that Loghain was the clear leader of Ferelden legally, (whether or not you like him, the sitting queen delegated him such of the power he used as he wasn't already entitled to) and quickly mopped up those who defied him regardless, I don't see his death improving things.

I wouldn't use things such as "legally" when it comes to medieval laws of succession. More likely, Loghain was likely disqualified for his retreat. which constitutes treason against his liege lord (Cailain was a moron, but he didn't breach the feudal contract by being really gung-ho about that battle).

Impossibility of performance is usually grounds for recission. Now, if Loghain chose his life over Cailan's, that's one thing. But quite apart from the fact that Maric made him swear never to risk Ferelden to save its king again, Loghain seemed quite convinced in RtO that he was literally unable to save Cailan.

As for mopping up, that Loghain was seemingly winning the war without Eamon having entered it doesn't really seem to be succestive of "quickly".

From the gossips, though, it seems that Loghain has pretty much won by the time the Landsmeet comes along. The only people who still oppose him are doing so there.

That's what I was saying too. I'm also saying I wouldn't want to be the person informing Loghain what the Wardens want.

I'm pretty sure if it came to that, Loghain wouldn't have been around to hear it. 

Probably so.

[TEWR]

They're meatshields - but at the start of a blight, Ferelden is ****ed if the Wardens die. Loghain was one Flemeth intervention away from accidentally dooming all of Thedas. But as much as I don't think Loghain is competent, that one isn't on him. He has no way of planning for stuff that Duncan actively keeps from him.

Actually, Loghain made it a point to raid the Warden's warehouse and you find Warden documents in Howe's estate. Couple that with Anora's knowledge of the Joining that goes beyond what the Wardens delve out and it seems that Loghain was making it a point to learn as much about the Wardens as he could because of their damnable secrecy, and would've tried to create his own Wardens that he could vouch were loyal to Ferelden.

But yes, Duncan is to blame for Loghain's lack of knowledge on why they're necessary. That much we agree on.

As to what Ferelden nobility will or won't do, with Loghain and Cailan dead Duncan might well have abandoned Ferelden anyway. That would have been his plan, per DG, if he lived.

Fair enough.

[duckley]

Interesting discussion, but I do not wish to see Loghain again.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well, did you kill him? I think that's probably the only way to be sure, since if I were on the development team I would certainly want to include a cameo to be shown if the import allows it.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 18 juin 2013 - 04:28 .

[KC_Prototype]

Too bad me and Alistair decapitated his ass!

[Twisted Path]

I'm betting that the vast majority of players killed Loghain so I doubt it would be worth it. Though I would love to see the statistics. I remember they released a bunch of stats on what decisions people made in the Mass Effect games but I've never seen any for Origins.

[TK514]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Loghain could have chosen better allies, but the bloodline fetish of the nobility is sickening, so sometimes the devil you know (Howe) might be preferable to trash (everyone else).

except Loghain didn't have any of that "nobles are inherently better and everyone else is trash" baggage.  He was a farmer's son and poacher who was raised to the second highest level of nobility due to his part in the war and his friendship with the king.

more likely that Howe brought troops nominally more loyal to Loghain's program than to the memory of Maric's line.   While most of the nobility sent their troops to Ostagar, Howe's were kept relatively intact after sacking the lightly defended Highever.

[Capt. Obvious]

Twisted Path wrote...

I'm betting that the vast majority of players killed Loghain so I doubt it would be worth it. Though I would love to see the statistics. I remember they released a bunch of stats on what decisions people made in the Mass Effect games but I've never seen any for Origins.

That would be nice. I still hope they manage to include Loghain. After all, they included Loghain in Awakening and not many people spared his life at the Landsmeet. Having Loghain make a cameo in Dragon Age: Inquisition wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

[DarthLaxian]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

KoyoteN7 wrote...

Btw anyone knows who wrote Loghain? I am of opinion that, together with Kain from Legacy of Kain series, he is the best written video game character ever. So I am curious if whoever wrote him is still with Bioware.

I would certainly like to know as well. Dragon Age III needs someone like him.

I would also like to ask who wrote the Arishock in Dragon Age II.

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

If I remember correctly, it was Mary Kirby.

Ninja'd.

But anywho, do we know if she is going to participate in the writing process of Inquisition?

why? - i mean, really do we need a traitor? (a major enemy i can understand, a spy that you only discover as you play the game i could get behind, too (even a companion that say, if you romance him/her or have high enough approval even confesses to you or you having the choice of killing that person, letting them go or sparing them and keeping them on), but another person committing what is essentially high-treason by killing/abandoning his/her own sovereign?...well i don't know, even more as i still believe:

a) Loghain was DELUDED - or POWERHUNGRY (hell - SPOILER - as far as i know he slept with Cailans Mother (Marrics Wife), too)...or even both (he was PARANOID at least with his prejudice against Orlais)

his assessment (of the battle against the darkspawn being lost) of the situation at the start of the DA:O-Story strikes me a debattable (i mean cailan had the kingdoms army, the ash-warriors, the mages, some templars, lots of mabari and loghains forces...so it could have been enough and even if it wasn't his oath demanded that he risks it and dies for his kingdom if necessary!)

so please don't have an antagonist who is to blame for everything going wrong from the start again

greeting LAX
ps: no, i do not like his character much (he has one good moment in the game IMHO - when he accepts death because ferelden is now in the hands of the player)