Ce sujet est ferméiakus wrote...
And the Magic Space Elevator is part of the Catalyst's spleen.
Hey, the Catalyst built that for his grandma.
But yeah good point.
Modifié par CronoDragoon, 17 juin 2013 - 07:01 .
Why is the Star-Child still in the Ending?
Débuté par
ShadowLordXII
, juin 17 2013 06:37
#101
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:00
CronoDragoon
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Hey, the Catalyst built that for his grandma.
But yeah good point.
Retour en haut
#102
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:04
Clayless
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CronoDragoon wrote...
But yeah good point.
Not really, seeing as though that was a function of the Crucible.
#103
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:05
Xamufam
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Robosexual wrote...
Troxa wrote...
The citadel is part of himRobosexual wrote...
Almost all of those rely on you believing the Catalyst has power over the Citadel.
But we aren't shown him having power over it, that's just an assumption.
Almost all of the OP's questions rely on that assumption, a lot of them aren't even plot holes, and others are based on things that he seems to have made up in his head (like how did the Catalyst know Shepard would reach him alive, something that isn't even implied anywhere).
was not part of the crucibleiakus wrote...
And the Magic Space Elevator is part of the Catalyst's spleen.
not even the 3 choices was part of the crucible
Modifié par Troxa, 17 juin 2013 - 07:07 .
#104
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:07
Clayless
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Troxa wrote...
was not part of the crucible
Function, not part. It was the Crucible that activated the elevator.
#105
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:07
Xamufam
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Robosexual wrote...
Troxa wrote...
was not part of the crucible
Function, not part. It was the Crucible that activated the elevator.
not even the 3 choices was part of the crucible
#106
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:09
Eterna
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Dubozz wrote...
Lmao Eterna strikes with a wall of bs again.
Where? Almost everything I said is supported in game. Except for the Catalyst hibernating.
#107
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:11
Clayless
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Troxa wrote...
not even the 3 choices was part of the crucible
Your point?
#108
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:11
CronoDragoon
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Robosexual wrote...
Function, not part. It was the Crucible that activated the elevator.
How?
#109
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:13
Eryri
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Robosexual wrote...
Troxa wrote...
The citadel is part of himRobosexual wrote...
Almost all of those rely on you believing the Catalyst has power over the Citadel.
But we aren't shown him having power over it, that's just an assumption.
Not entirely true. The Catalyst was able to raise Shepard up on the elevator, and shut off the beam if Shepard refuses his choices. If Shepard chooses to become the new catalyst he is apparently able to close the ward arms after firing his beam of blue magic.
It's also a fairly reasonable assumption. The Catalyst, unlike organic creatures ,cobbled together by random mutation and natural selection, really was "intelligently designed". It is reasonable to imagine that it would have more control over its own systems than we would have over our own internal organs, to use another poster's example.
Additionally, the Citadel was specifically designed and created by the Reapers to serve as an important part of their trap. Even back in ME1, the fact that they had such tenuous control over it was an excessively convenient part of the plot. That becomes even more ludicrous in ME3 if the Reaper's Controlling intelligence actually lives there.
#110
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:15
MegaSovereign
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Do you actually want answers? It really isn't that hard to come up with explanations for each of these. It wouldn't change the fact that you don't like the ending.
I think it's time to move on.
I think it's time to move on.
#111
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:16
Clayless
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CronoDragoon wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
Function, not part. It was the Crucible that activated the elevator.
How?
Activating it, as we know it changes programing, and it appears the elevator uses something similar to pressure plates.
#112
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:22
Clayless
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Eryri wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
Troxa wrote...
The citadel is part of himRobosexual wrote...
Almost all of those rely on you believing the Catalyst has power over the Citadel.
But we aren't shown him having power over it, that's just an assumption.
Not entirely true. The Catalyst was able to raise Shepard up on the elevator, and shut off the beam if Shepard refuses his choices. If Shepard chooses to become the new catalyst he is apparently able to close the ward arms after firing his beam of blue magic.
All of those are just assumptions that it's the Catalyst, when there's as much evidence that it was the Crucible turning off due to damage or closing the arms as a function (something it can't do due to explosions and destruction in the other two endings).
If it was a plot hole then these answers I'm giving wouldn't be possible. If people speculated more and never chose their assumption as being automatically correct then threads like this wouldn't exist.
#113
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:28
dreamgazer
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Your assumptions are wrong. My assumptions are right. Nanny nanny boo-boo.
#114
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:38
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dreamgazer wrote...
Your assumptions are wrong. My assumptions are right. Nanny nanny boo-boo.
People can say that yes, but if your assumptions lead to contradictions that can be easily solved then it doesn't make people, like the OP for example, as smart as they believe, nor is it a fault of the plot.
If people stopped trying to create plot holes by assuming that their assumptions are fact, or if more people contributed to speculation rather than mindless criticism, then threads like this wouldn't exist.
Modifié par Robosexual, 17 juin 2013 - 07:38 .
#115
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:40
Eryri
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[quote]Eterna5 wrote...
[quote]ShadowLordXII wrote...
Why did the Leviathans think that it would be a smart idea to have a synthetic figure out a solution for synthetic-organic conflicts? Especially since it was a conflict where synthetics were rising up against organics?[/quote]
Power breeds arrogance. They believed the entire galaxy was at their beck and call, they never believed they could suffer the same fate as their thralls. It is supposed to be ironic.
[/quote]
That's beyond arrogance. That's just gross stupidity.
[quote]
[quote]Why didn't the Catalyst just recorrect the Keeper signal after the illos scientists starved to death?[/quote]Dunno, maybe it couldn't?
[/quote]
Too convenient.
[quote]
[quote]No one ever found that elevator that leads up to the Catalyst's chamber? Or that large compartment where he apparently stays?[/quote]
There are plenty of places on the citadel that were unexplored, Mass Effect one told us this. [/quote]
The Citadel has also been there a very long time. In all those millions of years, no one was curious enough to break in to those hidden spaces? There was no gung-ho Krogan-esque species who didn't give a damn if the Keepers had a fit if they stripped the whole citadel down to find out how it ticked?
[quote]
[quote]Why do the reapers even need the keepers if the Catalyst could activate the Citadel's mass relay capabilities by itself?[/quote]
Who said it can?
[/quote]
Because it's mind bogglingly convenient that it can't.
[quote]
[quote]How come the Catalyst never tried to figure out how the Illos Scientists got into the Citadel? Couldn't just destroy or shut down the other half of the Conduit? A road only works if there's a point A and a point B, even if it's a one-way road.[/quote]
Why would he need to after the fact?
[/quote] The Conduit was a massive security hole. He should have dismantled it after the reapers took the Citadel in the Prothean Cycle.
[quote]
[quote]How come the Catalyst didn't interfere in the Battle against Soveriegn and cancel-out Shepard's controls?[/quote]
My theory is that like all Reapers, it hibernates until the signal is sent out.
[/quote]
Again, far too convenient. The Reapers hibernate because they sit out in darkspace, far from any source of energy. The Catalyst sits in the comparative warmth and light of the galaxy. It has no reason to hibernate. It's supposed to be finding a "solution" not sleeping on the job.
[quote]
[quote]Why doesn't the Catalyst simply shut down the Mass Relay network once the reapers begin to invade?[/quote]
It may not have power over them. [/quote]
Again, insanely convenient. Also, once the Reapers took the Citadel, they could and should have repaired their control over the relay network,
[quote]
[quote]Why was the Citadel brought to earth instead of keeping it within that nebula? Which is a cloud of various gases and dust which would be a perfect spot to ambush attackers...[/quote]
Bulk of the Reapers forces are on earth. [/quote]
So they chose to stay and defend some mudball planet instead of their one weakness? You know what I'm going to say now. It begins with a c.
[quote] [quote] Why did he let the Crucible dock with the Citadel when he knows that it's a device meant to destroy the reapers?[/quote]
He didn't let it, he sent Reapers to stop it from docking but your forces were strong enough to stop those reapers from stopping you. [/quote]
They clearly weren't trying very hard to stop it then, considering how vastly more powerful they are.
[quote]
[quote]Is it still on the Citadel after Shepard picks the Synthesis or Control Option? If so, then why should it be trusted?[/quote]
Because Synthesis solves the problem the Reapers were created to solve. They don't need to harvest as the problem no longer exists. [/quote]
No. Synthetics are still more durable, and can replicate themselves more rapidly than organics can, even after synthesis. If the Geth really wanted to take over the galaxy they still could, quite easily. Synthesis solves nothing.
[quote]
[quote]Why is it even talking to Shepard at all?[/quote]
Because the Crucible changed it and created new solutions to its problems. Its own solution no longer works. It tells you this.
[/quote] I thought it was "little more than a power source?"
[quote]
[quote]What's the rush? Why can't it say who first designed the Crucible?[/quote]
Because your fleet is blowing up in the background...
[/quote] Being blown up by the Reapers...
Which it supposedly controls...
...yeah.
[quote]
[quote]Since the Catalyst represents the collective consciousness of all reapers, why isn't it coordinating with the reapers to zerg rush the Citadel before Shepard activates the Crucible? What's stopping Harbinger from crashing through a window and throwing Shepard into outer space?[/quote]
The crucible changed it, it knows of new solutions and wants those solutions. [/quote]
Not enough to call off its reapers to give Shepard time to think, apparently. Even though it's own solution "won't work anymore."
[quote]ShadowLordXII wrote...
Why did the Leviathans think that it would be a smart idea to have a synthetic figure out a solution for synthetic-organic conflicts? Especially since it was a conflict where synthetics were rising up against organics?[/quote]
Power breeds arrogance. They believed the entire galaxy was at their beck and call, they never believed they could suffer the same fate as their thralls. It is supposed to be ironic.
[/quote]
That's beyond arrogance. That's just gross stupidity.
[quote]
[quote]Why didn't the Catalyst just recorrect the Keeper signal after the illos scientists starved to death?[/quote]Dunno, maybe it couldn't?
[/quote]
Too convenient.
[quote]
[quote]No one ever found that elevator that leads up to the Catalyst's chamber? Or that large compartment where he apparently stays?[/quote]
There are plenty of places on the citadel that were unexplored, Mass Effect one told us this. [/quote]
The Citadel has also been there a very long time. In all those millions of years, no one was curious enough to break in to those hidden spaces? There was no gung-ho Krogan-esque species who didn't give a damn if the Keepers had a fit if they stripped the whole citadel down to find out how it ticked?
[quote]
[quote]Why do the reapers even need the keepers if the Catalyst could activate the Citadel's mass relay capabilities by itself?[/quote]
Who said it can?
[/quote]
Because it's mind bogglingly convenient that it can't.
[quote]
[quote]How come the Catalyst never tried to figure out how the Illos Scientists got into the Citadel? Couldn't just destroy or shut down the other half of the Conduit? A road only works if there's a point A and a point B, even if it's a one-way road.[/quote]
Why would he need to after the fact?
[/quote] The Conduit was a massive security hole. He should have dismantled it after the reapers took the Citadel in the Prothean Cycle.
[quote]
[quote]How come the Catalyst didn't interfere in the Battle against Soveriegn and cancel-out Shepard's controls?[/quote]
My theory is that like all Reapers, it hibernates until the signal is sent out.
[/quote]
Again, far too convenient. The Reapers hibernate because they sit out in darkspace, far from any source of energy. The Catalyst sits in the comparative warmth and light of the galaxy. It has no reason to hibernate. It's supposed to be finding a "solution" not sleeping on the job.
[quote]
[quote]Why doesn't the Catalyst simply shut down the Mass Relay network once the reapers begin to invade?[/quote]
It may not have power over them. [/quote]
Again, insanely convenient. Also, once the Reapers took the Citadel, they could and should have repaired their control over the relay network,
[quote]
[quote]Why was the Citadel brought to earth instead of keeping it within that nebula? Which is a cloud of various gases and dust which would be a perfect spot to ambush attackers...[/quote]
Bulk of the Reapers forces are on earth. [/quote]
So they chose to stay and defend some mudball planet instead of their one weakness? You know what I'm going to say now. It begins with a c.
[quote] [quote] Why did he let the Crucible dock with the Citadel when he knows that it's a device meant to destroy the reapers?[/quote]
He didn't let it, he sent Reapers to stop it from docking but your forces were strong enough to stop those reapers from stopping you. [/quote]
They clearly weren't trying very hard to stop it then, considering how vastly more powerful they are.
[quote]
[quote]Is it still on the Citadel after Shepard picks the Synthesis or Control Option? If so, then why should it be trusted?[/quote]
Because Synthesis solves the problem the Reapers were created to solve. They don't need to harvest as the problem no longer exists. [/quote]
No. Synthetics are still more durable, and can replicate themselves more rapidly than organics can, even after synthesis. If the Geth really wanted to take over the galaxy they still could, quite easily. Synthesis solves nothing.
[quote]
[quote]Why is it even talking to Shepard at all?[/quote]
Because the Crucible changed it and created new solutions to its problems. Its own solution no longer works. It tells you this.
[/quote] I thought it was "little more than a power source?"
[quote]
[quote]What's the rush? Why can't it say who first designed the Crucible?[/quote]
Because your fleet is blowing up in the background...
[/quote] Being blown up by the Reapers...
Which it supposedly controls...
...yeah.
[quote]
[quote]Since the Catalyst represents the collective consciousness of all reapers, why isn't it coordinating with the reapers to zerg rush the Citadel before Shepard activates the Crucible? What's stopping Harbinger from crashing through a window and throwing Shepard into outer space?[/quote]
The crucible changed it, it knows of new solutions and wants those solutions. [/quote]
Not enough to call off its reapers to give Shepard time to think, apparently. Even though it's own solution "won't work anymore."
Modifié par Eryri, 17 juin 2013 - 07:46 .
#116
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:41
Xamufam
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Robosexual wrote...
Troxa wrote...
not even the 3 choices was part of the crucible
Your point?
my point is that the platform of the choices is not part of the crucible it's part of the citdel
http://www.superchea...rucible-docking
on the other hand why would the reapers build something that can destroy them
stated in me 1 they buildt it they moved it to dark space so the reaper could get in & mass effect is not a series that you can speculate much on it's a detailed universe nothing happens without a reason
Modifié par Troxa, 17 juin 2013 - 07:50 .
#117
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:48
Clayless
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Troxa wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
Troxa wrote...
not even the 3 choices was part of the crucible
Your point?
my point is that the platform of the choices is not part of the crucible it's part of the citdel
http://www.superchea...rucible-docking
on the other hand why would the reapers build something that can destroy them
stated in me 1 they buildt it they moved it to dark space so the reaper could get in & mass effect is not a series that you can speculate much on it's a detailed universe nothing happens without a reason
Synthesis is created by both. But regardless, that's not a point, that's a (faulty) observation, which isn't related to what we're talking about and isn't a problem or a plot hole.
#118
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 07:53
dreamgazer
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Troxa wrote...
mass effect is not a series that you can speculate much on it's a detailed universe
Detailed in some areas, left incredibly blank and open to interpretation in others.
Speculations about how things work and how things really happened have existed since ME1.
#119
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 08:00
Eterna
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Eryri wrote...
snip
You saying everything I wrote is too convenient is not a proper or even convincing way of disproving what I said.
It comes across as you going "I don;t like it, thus it isn't true"
#120
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 08:11
Eryri
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Eterna5 wrote...
Eryri wrote...
snip
You saying everything I wrote is too convenient is not a proper or even convincing way of disproving what I said.
It comes across as you going "I don;t like it, thus it isn't true"
I was referring to the plot of the game as being too convenient for me (and judging by this thread, a fair few others) to find convincing or satisfying. Not what you wrote.
We're discussing our opinions of a work of fiction. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the word "true", in this situation.
Modifié par Eryri, 17 juin 2013 - 08:20 .
#121
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 08:23
remydat
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Maxster_ wrote...
Butthurt much?
Not at all. I just want to say it for the record so when I see people who claimed they would never buy on ME4 message boards, I can claim to be a prophet. It's going to happen.
#122
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 09:15
BioWareAre****s
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These are my answers. May I have a cookie?
[quote]ShadowLordXII wrote...
Before you say anything, yes this is a dead horse because BW wants to keep the Star-Child. Even though the Star-Child is amongst the most contested parts of the game, BW decided to have the brat stay in the EC. So one must ask why?
Rather you liked the ending, the Star-Child's very existence brings up various plotholes and problems like:
Since that Catalyst himself is a synthetic that turned on it's creators and made them into Harbinger and other synthetic-organic reapers to wipe out organics to keep them from being destroyed by synthetics...that just makes him a giant hypocrite in addition to being insane at best right? [/quote]
The thing about the Reapers is, they're still alive. The organic civilizations didn't die, they were preserved. That is the Catalyst's purpose, and it can't thing beyond it's purpose, because it's a machine.
[quote]
Why did the Leviathans think that it would be a smart idea to have a synthetic figure out a solution for synthetic-organic conflicts? Especially since it was a conflict where synthetics were rising up against organics? [/quote]
I would assume it's because they were being short-sighted. The Leviathan says that the Catalyst is 'just a tool'. They may not have put all that much thought into it, because they didn't think they had to.
[quote]
Why didn't the Catalyst just recorrect the Keeper signal after the illos scientists starved to death? [/quote]
Did it know the signal had been turned off? You don't know if you're infertile until you try to have a baby, fail, and get tested. Same principle. Maybe.
[quote]
No one ever found that elevator that leads up to the Catalyst's chamber? Or that large compartment where he apparently stays?[/quote]
It's part of the keeper tunnels. It's stated in-game that the keeper tunnels have never been explored properly, and that they move. The Catalyst could keep itself hidden.
[quote]
Why do the reapers even need the keepers if the Catalyst could activate the Citadel's mass relay capabilities by itself?[/quote] They're there.
[quote]
What was the point of Sovereign if the Keeper could signal the reapers itself? [/quote]
Because the Reaper alarm thingy didn't go off and Sovereign was sent in to investigate.
[quote]
How come the Catalyst never tried to figure out how the Illos Scientists got into the Citadel? Couldn't just destroy or shut down the other half of the Conduit? A road only works if there's a point A and a point B, even if it's a one-way road.[/quote]
My best guess is it didn't know. Or didn't care. But, yeah, that one doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
[quote]
How come the Catalyst didn't interfere in the Battle against Soveriegn and cancel-out Shepard's controls?[/quote]
It thought Sovereign was gonna win regardless, and didn't want to expose itself.
[quote]
Why doesn't the Catalyst simply shut down the Mass Relay network once the reapers begin to invade? [/quote]
Because the Reapers use it. You have a point there, although imo it would make more sense for the Mass Relays to operate an IFF system during invasions.
[quote]
Why was the Citadel brought to earth instead of keeping it within that nebula? Which is a cloud of various gases and dust which would be a perfect spot to ambush attackers...[/quote]
Because Earth is under Reaper control, possibly to trick TIM into thinking they're going along with his plans, because there's a large supply of dead bodies...?
[quote]
Did the Star-Child always look like a child or is it just trolling Shepard?[/quote]
It's trolling Shepard
[quote]
Why did he let the Crucible dock with the Citadel when he knows that it's a device meant to destroy the reapers?[/quote]
How does it know the Crucible is docking? It probably doesn't have external CCTV and the Reapers are distracted.
[quote]
Is it still on the Citadel after Shepard picks the Synthesis or Control Option? If so, then why should it be trusted? [/quote]
I think it survives regardless of which ending you pick. It only ever says the Reapers die/are controlled/whatever, not itself.
[quote]
How does the Catalyst know that the reapers won't eventually turn on the universe anyway in the Synthesis Option? Remember, the Catalyst itself used it's own parameters to betray the leviathans, what's stopping the reapers from doing the same thing? [/quote]
Either, there's some weird hive-mind thing going on and everyone, Reapers included, want peace, or it doesn't know. I only choseButterflies and Unicorns Synthesis once, but I don't remember promises of eternal peace.
[quote]
How did the Catalyst know that Shepard would be able to get up from getting shot multiple times by rifles and Harbinger's beam and not pass out from blood loss? [/quote]
It says something along the lines of 'as you're the first organic to stand before me, my plan is wrong'. I'm guessing that the Catalyst didn't make the decision to allow Shepard to win until he actually stood in front of it. So it wasn't trying to let him through.
[quote]
Why is it even talking to Shepard at all? [/quote]
Because it realised it's wrong.
[quote]
What's the rush? Why can't it say who first designed the Crucible?[/quote]
The rush...people are dying. And what difference would it make? It's a civilization you've never heard of, whose every trace of existance is now gone, besides the Reaper it's people became.
[quote]
Since the Catalyst represents the collective consciousness of all reapers, why isn't it coordinating with the reapers to zerg rush the Citadel before Shepard activates the Crucible? What's stopping Harbinger from crashing through a window and throwing Shepard into outer space?[/quote]
Because it wanted to see how far Shepard got? The Catalyst isn't evil. It's willing to barter, it actually wants us to live. It just thinks that we're not capable of doing so, EVER, so a sign of advancement, like using the Crucible, is a sign of change. It's like if you're hired to keep down the local wolf population by shooting them. Then one stands on two feet, walks up to you and says hi, in English. Would you shoot it like you're meant to, or would you hear it out?
[quote]
Again, the collective consciousness of the reapers is allowing Shepard to control all of the reapers? Why would he be giving this option to Renegade Shepard? You know...the Shepard who potentially murdered thousands/millions of people throughout all three games including their own squadmates and support crew? How does it know that Paragon Shepard won't simply order the reapers to self-detonate?[/quote]
Trust. What more can it do?
[quote]
How was he certain that no one else followed Shepard up the beam on Earth? What would have happened if Shepard and 2 random soldiers/squadmates made with him and all three of them choose every option? [/quote]
It would have noticed by the point of making the decision. It closed the door behind Shepard. No one else is getting in.
[quote]
Why does the Catalyst rage-quit when Shepard shoots him? The bullet obviously didn't hurt and he was intially amiable for the collective consciousness of a race of organic spaceships who want nothing more than for Shepard to die...so why would a harmless bullet change any of that?[/quote]
It's giving Shepard an opportunity. Shepard never beats it, it lets Shepard win. Shepard is throwing that opportunity in it's face and refusing to co-operate. What else is it gonna do?
[quote]
Why does it raise it's voice and then return it to normal when the Reject Ending is chosen?[/quote]
Art?
[quote]
At first it says that a new solution is required and that the Crucible has changed him...but he can still shut it down whenever he wants?[/quote]
Again with the co-operation thing.
[quote]
Whats stopping Shepard or any of the numerous talented engineers and hackers from reactivating the Crucible on their own and taking a fifth option apart from Mass Suicide (Reject); Mass Betrayal (Destroy); Mass Slavery (Control) or Mass Molestation (Synthesis)? [/quote]
What fifth option?
[quote]
If the Catalyst could easily shut down the Crucible whenever it wanted then why is it keeping the Destroy Option as valid as the others? Especially since it believes that the "solution" won't last.[/quote]
Choice. It's not evil.
[quote]
How come the Crucible can target reapers for control, but indiscriminately wipes out all synthetics with destroy?[/quote]
They contain either Reaper tech or Reaper codes, and are therefore part Reaper.
[quote]
Supposedly all synthetic life is based on reaper-tech at this point and that's why they die when you pick Destroy, right? But...since all ME technology is based on the Mass Relays which were built by the reapers, how come the Victory Fleet's ships all work?[/quote]
They are only imitations, not the real thing. They don't contain actual Reaper tech, only something that looks like it.
[quote]
The Collective Consciousness of all reapers just stands there and lets Shepard destroy them all? [/quote]
Yes. And it's not the collective conciousness. It contains the collective consciousness of the Reapers, but is more than that.
[quote]
How does it know that synthesis is going to solve the great problem? Saren was practically synthesized himself and he was still a ruthless bigoted war-mongerer. Plus, organics have been killing each other since the beginning of time, synthesis will just give people more abilities with which to kill each other.[/quote]
Unicorns and Butterflies.
[quote]
Shepard is supposed to be partially synthetic, but he can survive the Destroy option and the partial destruction of the Citadel? So why is shepard alive, but EDI dies? [/quote]
Shepard contains no actual Reaper tech. Again, it looks like it, but is only an imitation. EDI contains the real thing.
[quote]
So are all of the geth dead or just the ones with bodies? What about the geth that had uploaded themselves into quarian suits to improve their immune systems? Are they still screwed or would they be considered part of the quarian suits? [/quote]
They're all screwed. Completely.
[quote]
So in light of this list that could easily be longer, what is so important about the Star-Child that he has to stay in the Ending? What is that all-essential role that no one else can fill that has his name written all over it?[/quote]
It created the Reapers. Go back to Virmire, one of the first things you can say to Sovereign is to ask where the Reapers come from. And I'm pretty sure that's not the last time Shepard answers. Lets face it, if BW never gave an explanation of where the Reapers came from, we'd be pretty pissed off. If they told us but never showed us, we'd also be pissed off, asking why their creator never came forward, after all, they're the reason the war started.
I'm sleepy now.
[quote]ShadowLordXII wrote...
Before you say anything, yes this is a dead horse because BW wants to keep the Star-Child. Even though the Star-Child is amongst the most contested parts of the game, BW decided to have the brat stay in the EC. So one must ask why?
Rather you liked the ending, the Star-Child's very existence brings up various plotholes and problems like:
Since that Catalyst himself is a synthetic that turned on it's creators and made them into Harbinger and other synthetic-organic reapers to wipe out organics to keep them from being destroyed by synthetics...that just makes him a giant hypocrite in addition to being insane at best right? [/quote]
The thing about the Reapers is, they're still alive. The organic civilizations didn't die, they were preserved. That is the Catalyst's purpose, and it can't thing beyond it's purpose, because it's a machine.
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Why did the Leviathans think that it would be a smart idea to have a synthetic figure out a solution for synthetic-organic conflicts? Especially since it was a conflict where synthetics were rising up against organics? [/quote]
I would assume it's because they were being short-sighted. The Leviathan says that the Catalyst is 'just a tool'. They may not have put all that much thought into it, because they didn't think they had to.
[quote]
Why didn't the Catalyst just recorrect the Keeper signal after the illos scientists starved to death? [/quote]
Did it know the signal had been turned off? You don't know if you're infertile until you try to have a baby, fail, and get tested. Same principle. Maybe.
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No one ever found that elevator that leads up to the Catalyst's chamber? Or that large compartment where he apparently stays?[/quote]
It's part of the keeper tunnels. It's stated in-game that the keeper tunnels have never been explored properly, and that they move. The Catalyst could keep itself hidden.
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Why do the reapers even need the keepers if the Catalyst could activate the Citadel's mass relay capabilities by itself?[/quote] They're there.
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What was the point of Sovereign if the Keeper could signal the reapers itself? [/quote]
Because the Reaper alarm thingy didn't go off and Sovereign was sent in to investigate.
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How come the Catalyst never tried to figure out how the Illos Scientists got into the Citadel? Couldn't just destroy or shut down the other half of the Conduit? A road only works if there's a point A and a point B, even if it's a one-way road.[/quote]
My best guess is it didn't know. Or didn't care. But, yeah, that one doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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How come the Catalyst didn't interfere in the Battle against Soveriegn and cancel-out Shepard's controls?[/quote]
It thought Sovereign was gonna win regardless, and didn't want to expose itself.
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Why doesn't the Catalyst simply shut down the Mass Relay network once the reapers begin to invade? [/quote]
Because the Reapers use it. You have a point there, although imo it would make more sense for the Mass Relays to operate an IFF system during invasions.
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Why was the Citadel brought to earth instead of keeping it within that nebula? Which is a cloud of various gases and dust which would be a perfect spot to ambush attackers...[/quote]
Because Earth is under Reaper control, possibly to trick TIM into thinking they're going along with his plans, because there's a large supply of dead bodies...?
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Did the Star-Child always look like a child or is it just trolling Shepard?[/quote]
It's trolling Shepard
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Why did he let the Crucible dock with the Citadel when he knows that it's a device meant to destroy the reapers?[/quote]
How does it know the Crucible is docking? It probably doesn't have external CCTV and the Reapers are distracted.
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Is it still on the Citadel after Shepard picks the Synthesis or Control Option? If so, then why should it be trusted? [/quote]
I think it survives regardless of which ending you pick. It only ever says the Reapers die/are controlled/whatever, not itself.
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How does the Catalyst know that the reapers won't eventually turn on the universe anyway in the Synthesis Option? Remember, the Catalyst itself used it's own parameters to betray the leviathans, what's stopping the reapers from doing the same thing? [/quote]
Either, there's some weird hive-mind thing going on and everyone, Reapers included, want peace, or it doesn't know. I only chose
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How did the Catalyst know that Shepard would be able to get up from getting shot multiple times by rifles and Harbinger's beam and not pass out from blood loss? [/quote]
It says something along the lines of 'as you're the first organic to stand before me, my plan is wrong'. I'm guessing that the Catalyst didn't make the decision to allow Shepard to win until he actually stood in front of it. So it wasn't trying to let him through.
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Why is it even talking to Shepard at all? [/quote]
Because it realised it's wrong.
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What's the rush? Why can't it say who first designed the Crucible?[/quote]
The rush...people are dying. And what difference would it make? It's a civilization you've never heard of, whose every trace of existance is now gone, besides the Reaper it's people became.
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Since the Catalyst represents the collective consciousness of all reapers, why isn't it coordinating with the reapers to zerg rush the Citadel before Shepard activates the Crucible? What's stopping Harbinger from crashing through a window and throwing Shepard into outer space?[/quote]
Because it wanted to see how far Shepard got? The Catalyst isn't evil. It's willing to barter, it actually wants us to live. It just thinks that we're not capable of doing so, EVER, so a sign of advancement, like using the Crucible, is a sign of change. It's like if you're hired to keep down the local wolf population by shooting them. Then one stands on two feet, walks up to you and says hi, in English. Would you shoot it like you're meant to, or would you hear it out?
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Again, the collective consciousness of the reapers is allowing Shepard to control all of the reapers? Why would he be giving this option to Renegade Shepard? You know...the Shepard who potentially murdered thousands/millions of people throughout all three games including their own squadmates and support crew? How does it know that Paragon Shepard won't simply order the reapers to self-detonate?[/quote]
Trust. What more can it do?
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How was he certain that no one else followed Shepard up the beam on Earth? What would have happened if Shepard and 2 random soldiers/squadmates made with him and all three of them choose every option? [/quote]
It would have noticed by the point of making the decision. It closed the door behind Shepard. No one else is getting in.
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Why does the Catalyst rage-quit when Shepard shoots him? The bullet obviously didn't hurt and he was intially amiable for the collective consciousness of a race of organic spaceships who want nothing more than for Shepard to die...so why would a harmless bullet change any of that?[/quote]
It's giving Shepard an opportunity. Shepard never beats it, it lets Shepard win. Shepard is throwing that opportunity in it's face and refusing to co-operate. What else is it gonna do?
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Why does it raise it's voice and then return it to normal when the Reject Ending is chosen?[/quote]
Art?
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At first it says that a new solution is required and that the Crucible has changed him...but he can still shut it down whenever he wants?[/quote]
Again with the co-operation thing.
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Whats stopping Shepard or any of the numerous talented engineers and hackers from reactivating the Crucible on their own and taking a fifth option apart from Mass Suicide (Reject); Mass Betrayal (Destroy); Mass Slavery (Control) or Mass Molestation (Synthesis)? [/quote]
What fifth option?
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If the Catalyst could easily shut down the Crucible whenever it wanted then why is it keeping the Destroy Option as valid as the others? Especially since it believes that the "solution" won't last.[/quote]
Choice. It's not evil.
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How come the Crucible can target reapers for control, but indiscriminately wipes out all synthetics with destroy?[/quote]
They contain either Reaper tech or Reaper codes, and are therefore part Reaper.
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Supposedly all synthetic life is based on reaper-tech at this point and that's why they die when you pick Destroy, right? But...since all ME technology is based on the Mass Relays which were built by the reapers, how come the Victory Fleet's ships all work?[/quote]
They are only imitations, not the real thing. They don't contain actual Reaper tech, only something that looks like it.
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The Collective Consciousness of all reapers just stands there and lets Shepard destroy them all? [/quote]
Yes. And it's not the collective conciousness. It contains the collective consciousness of the Reapers, but is more than that.
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How does it know that synthesis is going to solve the great problem? Saren was practically synthesized himself and he was still a ruthless bigoted war-mongerer. Plus, organics have been killing each other since the beginning of time, synthesis will just give people more abilities with which to kill each other.[/quote]
Unicorns and Butterflies.
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Shepard is supposed to be partially synthetic, but he can survive the Destroy option and the partial destruction of the Citadel? So why is shepard alive, but EDI dies? [/quote]
Shepard contains no actual Reaper tech. Again, it looks like it, but is only an imitation. EDI contains the real thing.
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So are all of the geth dead or just the ones with bodies? What about the geth that had uploaded themselves into quarian suits to improve their immune systems? Are they still screwed or would they be considered part of the quarian suits? [/quote]
They're all screwed. Completely.
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So in light of this list that could easily be longer, what is so important about the Star-Child that he has to stay in the Ending? What is that all-essential role that no one else can fill that has his name written all over it?[/quote]
It created the Reapers. Go back to Virmire, one of the first things you can say to Sovereign is to ask where the Reapers come from. And I'm pretty sure that's not the last time Shepard answers. Lets face it, if BW never gave an explanation of where the Reapers came from, we'd be pretty pissed off. If they told us but never showed us, we'd also be pissed off, asking why their creator never came forward, after all, they're the reason the war started.
I'm sleepy now.
#123
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 10:38
Maxster_
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Sure.Robosexual wrote...
Troxa wrote...
was not part of the crucible
Function, not part. It was the Crucible that activated the elevator.
And how exactly conveniently happens, that Citadel have built-in, from the start, functionality to work with the Crucible?
Ah yes, Crucible could not be designed at all, that's just a magic device. There is no point to justify that, it just happened.
#124
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 10:39
Maxster_
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Want to bet money on that? I guess notremydat wrote...
Maxster_ wrote...
Butthurt much?
Not at all. I just want to say it for the record so when I see people who claimed they would never buy on ME4 message boards, I can claim to be a prophet. It's going to happen.
I know, you trying to insult people with your generalization, having no other arguments. Just do not make it so obvious, too easy
#125
Posté 17 juin 2013 - 10:59
remydat
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Max
Sorry you seem to be under the impression I was talking about you personally. The BSN is overflowing with people who claim they will not buy ME4. It is not an insult to suggest some of those people will end up buying the game.
If I intended that comment to be directed at you personally then I would have called your name. I didn't. If you are one of the people that end up sticking to your word then the comment has nothing to do with you.
Sorry you seem to be under the impression I was talking about you personally. The BSN is overflowing with people who claim they will not buy ME4. It is not an insult to suggest some of those people will end up buying the game.
If I intended that comment to be directed at you personally then I would have called your name. I didn't. If you are one of the people that end up sticking to your word then the comment has nothing to do with you.
Modifié par remydat, 17 juin 2013 - 11:00 .
