67 réponses à ce sujet

[R0gueHunt3R]

Except that ES has never been about the characters. I clocked over 400 hours in Oblivion and a similar amount of time in Morrowind, and I did not give a damn about a single one of the characters. Except for Sheogorath; he was awesome.

[BlacJAC74]

But we've had those characters, heard their stories (as much as you can give a side character) and to drag it out further would become dull. If they can write good stories for the ones we've had, then it's not beyond the realms of possibilities they can do it again for an entirely different set of npcs.

Edit: For some reason, I didn't read the comic part first time, but yeah, I completley agree with you on that point.

As for the other response, I wasn't trying to compare TES npcs to ME npcs, I was highlighting the fact it's entirely possible to keep subsequent games in the same game world, yet tell different stories, with different characters (regardless of how good those characters are). Look at what BioWare did to Anders when they tried to move him from one story over to another, they destroyed everything that made him interesting in DA1.

Another game or two with Tali, Miranda etc - nah, I can play the current trilogy for that. 

Modifié par BlacJAC74, 03 janvier 2014 - 05:59 .

[Derpy]

 Miranda's role in ME3 was poorly handled and thus I don't want to see it done again. I do have to agree on the fact that there are way better characters in MEU. 

Did someone say Sheogorath? Guys hella funny. Had so much fun becoming him in Oblivion.

[R0gueHunt3R]

Fundamentally, ME and ES are completely different beasts. ME is about player agency and character interaction, while ES is about exploration and getting the best loot that you can lay your hands on.

For this reason, moving to a new setting in ES is an opportunity to explore a new setting and find new loot; there is no real reason to miss what has been left behind. However, with ME and its heavy reliance on character interaction, going to a new setting essentially means leaving behind everything that you have come to care about.

Also, ES has an extremely broad focus when it comes to its universe. For the most part, it is written in an extremely detached and objective manner. Meanwhile, pretty much everything that was experienced in ME was from a single person's point of view. That kind of connection with the current setting means that moving over to another setting is likely going to be quite jarring.

Also, as there is no player agency in ES, it is extremely simple to move on in the ES timeline: simply mention what has happened before and continue on from there. How do we reconcile the vastly different states that the galaxy could be in by the end of ME3? To cover all the bases would basically mean making several entirely separate games. On the other hand, if Bioware canonized a set of decisions, they would risk upsetting a huge section of their player base.

So how could they get around the problem of the vastly different endings? Well, they could of course make a prequel, but I, along with much of the player base, have absolutely no interest in such as thing. We would already know the outcome before the game had even gotten anywhere. Also, humanity was not on the galactic stage for all that long, and I do not know if I would feel comfortable playing a game without any humans in it.

Alternatively, you could set the game so far in the future, that the endings cease to matter. However, we could then end up with a universe that is entirely unrecognizable (after all, a lot could change in hundreds of years), and even that does not get around the fact that some races may or may not exist.

More and more, I am coming to think that a complete reboot is the only viable option. While the choices made in the 3 game were one of its main attractions, they also make continuing the current universe almost impossible.

[BlacJAC74]

God, i hate that term 'player agency'. That aside, ME like almost every game out there has very little player agency or at least in the sense you're attempting to portray it. As you know every dialogue tree is pre planned as are the plot branches, put there by developers and we as players can't add anything to that, so the best anyone can hope for is a sense of agency, the same sense of agency you can get from almost any game.

In fact, you could argue TES could potentially offer more agency because in theory people can mod in almost any type of quest they can think up and complete it in any manner they want to. Story and game play wise, we are entirely free to opt for any outcome we want to and it would be entirely derived from our own minds.

[R0gueHunt3R]

Because you can do *everything* in a single playthrough in ES, choice essentially becomes meaningless. Mods are an entirely separate matter, as they have nothing to do with the devs themselves.

With regards to player agency, of course it's all an illusion. The only way that a game can have true agency is if it were completely open ended. EVE ONLINE is a great example of this. Regardless, ME at least made a very good attempt at making you feel in control. ES makes me feel like little more than an incredibly overpowered pawn.

[Secretlyapotato]

She'll come back in full body armor and will have sucked the fat out of her ass and donated it to dirty hobos with poor body images.

[BlacJAC74]

R0gueHunt3R wrote...

Because you can do *everything* in a single playthrough in ES, choice essentially becomes meaningless. Mods are an entirely separate matter, as they have nothing to do with the devs themselves.

With regards to player agency, of course it's all an illusion. The only way that a game can have true agency is if it were completely open ended. EVE ONLINE is a great example of this. Regardless, ME at least made a very good attempt at making you feel in control. ES makes me feel like little more than an incredibly overpowered pawn.

No, TES is what you want to make of it.  You can just as easily opt to wear and use fur armour and a longbow rather than fully enchanted and smithed daedric/dragon gear.  The only reason people feel like a Demi-God is because they choose to make their characters that way.  There is nothing whatsoever in the game that forces you to upgrade your gear.  I have ran over 200 hours using only fur armour and an unsmithed Elven bow.  I'm lvl 52 and things can still one shot me on expert.  Lets be honest here, there also comes a point in each ME game when nothing really troubles you on the defualt setting (according to BioWare stats, the most played difficulty lvl by a considerable distance).

I don't get most of the flak TES recieves as far as becoming God like goes, especially when most of those people abuse the crafting skills.  Yeah, it's gonna happen if you want it to, but it's also just as easy to remain on par with the world around you.

I liked the 1st witcher game because it wasn't about uber gear or weapons, just the story.  They kinda moved towards upper tier gear in the 2nd game which is a shame.

Oh man, it sounds like i'm talking TES up whilst rubbishing ME, I'm not as I love both series.

Modifié par BlacJAC74, 03 janvier 2014 - 09:17 .

[R0gueHunt3R]

It's kind of funny that you mentioned The Witcher series, since those those games are just flat out ridiculous on the higher difficulty settings.

Also, you are the first person that I have come across who prefers the first game over the second one. After all, TW2 is widely considered one of the best fantasy RPGs ever made. Now there's a game that made you feel as though your choices mattered.

If TW3 ends up being as good as it should be, I could very easily see it making ES all but irrelevant.

[BlacJAC74]

I actually prefer the 2nd, mate, i just liked the first game because Geralt sucked for a very large part of the game when it came to combat. In the 2nd one, there was gear that made each stage easier, even on the highest difficulty due to the dark armour and weapons. I'm not a sucker for difficulty (i didn't enjoy Dark Souls), I just like to be kept on my toes rather than running around 1-shotting everything in sight.

Anyhoo, I'm veering waaaaay off topic here, so I'll allow others to get it back on track. It's actually been nice talking to someone [you] for more than 3 posts and the conversation remaining civil, when disagreeing about something. It's been a pleasure.

[R0gueHunt3R]

Ditto.

If you're interested, a mod made by one of the devs (Full Combat Rebalance 2) significantly changes the game. For the better, I believe. Its focus is on making the combat more fluid and responsive, rather than making it more frustrating.

The changelog is extremely long, but here are two of the more noticeable ones:

• Decreased the number of skills to ensure quality over quantity. Experience rewards and leveling were adjusted to current character development.
• Removed many passives from skill tree to replace them with more active abilities. Remaining passives are changed to make them more attractive.

             _____

Anyway, back on topic:

I had a distinct disliking for Miranda; she reminded me far too much of Bastila Shan - a character that I found extremely annoying. Someone earlier described Miranda as an "Ice Queen". I could not agree more with that sentiment.

Overall, her presence in ME2 & 3 just came across as fan service to me. Her proportions were extremely exaggerated ("genetic modification" be damned), and her clothing was simply absurd. And lets not forget those rather unfortunate camera angles when you spoke to her.

Also, since she died in ME3 during all my playthroughs, it would be more than a bit strange for me to see her in ME4. And before anyone accuses me of killing her out of spite, the first time I played through ME3, I did not realize that the option of saving her even existed. However, when I replayed the game, I considered her death so appropriate that I did not prevent it. After all, she fulfulled everything that she set out to do: she killed her father, and she saved her sister. In my mind, her story was done from that point on.

Modifié par R0gueHunt3R, 04 janvier 2014 - 12:55 .

[thehomeworld]

If its a sequel set 3 - 50K into the future then Miranda and all your non robot friends will be dead. Maybe some medical work comes out that she pioneered but I don't think BW should keep anyone not even EDI or a that talking geth prime we met around so as not to ruin them in ME4 like they really screwed up many of the characters in ME3 going the whole LOST route.

[geordiep]

Im extremely late to the Miranda appreciation society.
Yesterday I was watching a show on netflix - Chuck, most of you will know whats coming next.
Every so often I thought my subconscious was telling me to switch on the xblok for more ME.
I thought I was losing my mind.
It took like 12 -15 straight episodes before I was like " Is that..."
The penny dropped when a quick google search linked ME to a very beautiful woman that has a lead role in the show.
Yvonne Strahovski - If Poland ever gave us anything special, Yvonne is definitely one of those things. Thank you Poland.

[David7204]

R0gueHunt3R wrote...

Also, you are the first person that I have come across who prefers the first game over the second one. After all, TW2 is widely considered one of the best fantasy RPGs ever made. Now there's a game that made you feel as though your choices mattered.

If TW3 ends up being as good as it should be, I could very easily see it making ES all but irrelevant.

Ha Ha Ha. 

No.

[o Ventus]

5 highly acclaimed games over a span of nearly 20 years of releases, plus expansions for said games (not including the innumerable amount of mods for each game; somebody actually went to the trouble of remaking the entirety of Morrowind as a mod for Skyrim), plus an upcoming MMO. I think TES is just fine, no matter what the Witcher does.

On topic, as much as I like Miranda, I do not really want to see her in the future games, because by now I don't really trust BioWare to do her (or any other returning characters) justice. Individual writers, maybe, but not in tandem with the whole writing team.

[MattFini]

I adore Miranda and will  always be of the mindset that she got shafted the most in ME3. Her character should've been a full-time squad mate and all of that good stuff...

But I'm honestly looking forward to meeting all new characters in the next game. Of course I'll miss Jack, Garrus, Grunt, etc., but I'm confident that BioWare can give us a whole new cast of characters that we'll grow to love.

Modifié par MattFini, 09 janvier 2014 - 05:04 .