10 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

I really enjoy the dual wield fighting in DAO, and I've been planning to try the warrior version at some point rather than the rogue, but then I can't help wondering... what's the point? Rogues can do exactly what warriors can but they've got nifty rogue skills as well and have the backstab damage, maybe assassin damage, maybe bard bonuses to cunning adding to Lethality... Is there any advantage to playing a dual wielder as a warrior? I mean, the game is designed to let warriors specialize in dual wield, but they don't seem to have any of the perks that rogues have to make the build worthwhile. They don't even get the Dualist specialization.

And then there's archery as well. You even meet a warrior archer as the Tower of Ishal guard (remains nameless otherwise). But why ever take archery as a warrior?

Hopefully this isn't grounds for a flame war. The game doesn't really have enough classes to keep varying the build experience, so I'm actually hoping people can show me something about the DW warrior especially to make it seem uniquely interesting and more playable... or at least playable without regrets that I didn't just make another rogue...

[HippeusOmega]

I've been a DW Warrior and have to say I have greatly enjoyed it. Never been a archer as I would rather have a sword/dagger or staff in my hand. I have also done a Rogue Str Hybrid that used DW and wore heavy armor. Added the survivability of the warrior with the power of the rogue. Little demanding on stats though. But it was fun cause I never did it and actually could hold my own better then Alistair or Shale as tanks.

[Ferretinabun]

The fighting styles of rogue and warrior DWers are rather different.

DW warriors fight from the front. Load them up with dex and they'll draw aggro and go toe-to-toe with anyone and everyone. Suddenly aoe talents such as Whirlwind come into their own.

DW rogues are backstabbers. They have great DPS, but they're all about sneaking up to people - either through stealth for the perfect first kill, or by getting your tank to distract them while you pick them off.

Both are great fun. It's just about how you like to fight.

Archers are slightly different, though. The rogue specs really do make the rogue archer more viable than the warrior one which really is very weak (until you get to Awakenings, of course, when the warrior archer suddenly becomes an absolute beast).

[Corker]

FWIW, I've defended Vigil's Keep with a team of DW!rogue!Warden, Sigrun, Nathaniel and Anders. Sigrun and Warden did a lot of "scream and leap" charging at the enemy. And I played most of DA2 with a three-rogue, one-mage party. (I did need a tank for some of the killer boss fights.)

Granted that I don't usually play at the higher difficulty settings. Maybe it's more of a factor there.

[cJohnOne]

I really like DW warriors. They go down their DW tree faster because they don't get distracted by picking locks and coup de grace and combat something or other. I think I build then 2 strength 1 dexterity. So I use heavy armor.

[Bhryaen]

@Panznerr
Yes, I've been thinking about the STR-based rogues too, trying to see how that's doable. Apparently the DPS is OK even though, as you say, the sacrifice in DEX and CUN is high. Anyway- yet another build to try on a new character later...

@Ferretinabun
Thanks for the overview- a way to conceive of the character's outline now and something to look forward to as a build. Is the DPS for DW warriors still good despite the lack of backstab dmg? Comparable? Still, could make an interesting run...

@Corker
I play nightmare in DAO- can't seem to back off from it- but if I ever do DA2 it'll probably be on easy the whole time (with all the other suffering and losses entailed by playing DA2 I can't stand to have to work for it as well), so I'll keep that in mind.

@cJohnOne
True, I suppose, about the "distractions." I'll probably go the 2:1 route at least at first to get to heavy armor. Isn't high DEX better though?

[Blazomancer]

Different gameplay style, that's all I think there's to it.

The advantage of a DW warrior (STR based in particular) is the high amount of activated talent damage, compared to the poor talent damage of a DEX/CUNN based dual dagger wielding rogue. A DW warrrior who is focussed on spamming abilities is naturally going to have a much higher DPS than a backstabbing rogue. Same can be said about a hybrid STR based rogue who is spamming talents comapred to his backstabbing counterpart. However, a CUNN based backstabbing rogue probably has the highest single-target DPS than anybody else; though it is often argued that a DW warrior taking advantage of the bugged(?) 'Dual Striking' marginally surpasses even a backstabbing rogue, but I guess the jury's still out on that one, and I personally don't believe that. What I do know for sure is that as a DW warrior, if you are planning to use only autoattacks (without using Dual Striking), than he/she can't surpass a backstabbing rogue (supported by a well-balanced team) in terms of damage; and if you are going to use talents most of the time, than the DW warrior will be potentially more damaging.

Also, when we say that 'rogues can do exactly what warriors can, plus the skills and backstabbing bonuses', we fail to notice that this isn't exactly true. Warriors have their share of crowd control based abilities like warcry, holy smite, and blood fury which rogues don't. Warriors (DW or not) can be better off-tanks having access to Taunt, Threaten, and Frightening Appearance, which rogues lack and on top of that they draw only 80% dmg based threat. Warriors can also achieve complete spell resistance with the Templar spec, and they can also achieve maximum autoattack speed without running into the attack speed bug. Warriors also end up with less fatigue and with a little bit of more damage bonus per level (0.4 compared to a rogue's 0.2).

So, these are a few things that goes in favor of a DW warrior. Personally, I found the backstabbing DW rogue and a DW warrior to be completely different experiences in terms of gameplay. Both were very satisfying.



Regarding archery, I believe both the rogue and the warrior archer, when focussed on DEX are identical in terms of damage dealing. Obviously for someone's who want to take the safe route and play a DEX archer, it doesn't really matter if it's a rogue or a warrior. Only if it's the tricky CUNN based rogue archer, then we have a winner in terms of armor penetration, but the player have to live with the fact that the build starts slowly because of the obvious attack rating issue early on.

Having said all that, if someone is playing a warrior archer, then it's probably because of the Spirit Warrior specialization in Awakening. The archer is already ridiculous in terms of damage dealing in Awakening, but a spirit warrior archer is 2-3x ridiculous.

[Donnark]

I think Warrior is the best choice , you may need Rogue skill further in the game but you have Leliana and Zevran so you don't have to take Rogue just to pick lock's , instead i prefer Warrior and i Gave him 2HS Talent's and Dual weapon. Enjoy the finishing blow's on each Talent , it's more thrilling then back stabbing

[Bhryaen]

@Blazomancer
Thanks a lot- a good overview of everything and helps me know how to play it rather than relying on restarts of a character based on logistical build issues. So talents- and I assume higher stamina regen- are keys to bringing up the warrior DW DPS. My main concern remaining is trying to tank that way with the lack of rogue evasion and shield warrior defense/armor boosts. It almost seems as precarious as 2-handers that go into it without a shield either, just hoping to kill the opponents fast enough that they can't kill you. Also gave me a new character to build at some point- a warrior archer into Spirit Warrior. :-) I have more character ideas than builds to work with, so that sounds fun for down the road...

@Donnark
I wasn't really going for preference so much as a "how to," though I suppose the "v" in the title looks more like a contest than a contrast. I'm approaching it like Blazomancer says- as more of a logistical than qualitative difference, just two distinct builds. I suspect I'll ultimately still prefer crafty backstabbing rogue DW to warrior DW, but I still want to try the latter for the fun of it. But I do like the idea of bouncing between 2-handed and DW for talent-spamming- at least if stamina can keep up.

[Blazomancer]

Bhryaen wrote...
@Blazomancer
Thanks a lot- a good overview of everything and helps me know how to play it rather than relying on restarts of a character based on logistical build issues. So talents- and I assume higher stamina regen- are keys to bringing up the warrior DW DPS. My main concern remaining is trying to tank that way with the lack of rogue evasion and shield warrior defense/armor boosts. It almost seems as precarious as 2-handers that go into it without a shield either, just hoping to kill the opponents fast enough that they can't kill you. Also gave me a new character to build at some point- a warrior archer into Spirit Warrior. :-) I have more character ideas than builds to work with, so that sounds fun for down the road...

With how fast you'll be bringing down enemies, it is more than likely that stamina is not going to be a problem, because of the Death Blow passive. Your primary creation mage could be set to cast rejuvenate. mass rejuvenation, and spellbloom, if you wish, which I guess would me more than enough stamina for each encounter.

I don't have a first hand experience of tanking with a DW warrior; I brought Alistair for that purpose along with Leliana and Wynne. I'm guessing it would have been quite tricky for me to try to tank, as I used to keep Blood Thirst sustained all the time. But otherwise, with a dedicated healer in the team, I think it can be managed. As you mentioned, 'you draw first and your opponents don't get to draw at all', though it seems the DW tank would be a little bit more precarious than a 2H tank, I mean without Indomitable and 2H sweep.

Have fun with your builds then.

[Son of Imoen]

I'm not one to write long analyses on builds, but I like to mention the fun I have with my DW-warrior, mainly because he's got so many talents to use to disable enemies and do extra damage. I started him off to be versatile, by having him wield sword and shield as secondary weapon set, so if riposte to temporarily stun an enemy that's getting too dangerous for one of my weaker characters is not available due to it's time-out, I can always switch to shield pummel or overpower. Knock one enemy off it's feet or stun him to temporarily disable the enemy, go to another enemy and kill him quick, switch back to the first one before he's got back on his feet again and kill the first one as well, that's my favourite tactic.

Only disadvantage, because of his double melee-weapons sets, he can't do anymore than stand around and rally, when I've created a zone of death with a Blizzard from Morrigan, but he's that sturdy, I often send him into the dead zone anyway, as he's usually less likely to fall down and is less likely to be damaged than the enemies (I employ that tactic for crowds, not bosses).

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 23 juin 2013 - 11:03 .