229 réponses à ce sujet

[lil yonce]

Beerfish wrote...

Very good beginning to the book, overall quite a good book except for a few things. I think some of the characters were written with one out look in mind but they had an exact opposite reaction from me. (As in I hated the heros or protagonists and the characters who were supposed to be the villains of the piece I had great empathy for.) I have expressed a worry a few times about characters from the book showing up in DA Inquisition. I will have a really hard time putting aside my negative feelings for some of these characters if I meet them in DAI.

My feelings too.

frostajulie wrote...

Really? Even Rhys? different strokes I guess

#1 on the list.

As for Wynne I thought her end was wonderful, for once she did something for herself.  She spent a life in service serving others, serving Ferelden, serving the Mages, Serving the Maker, serving the greater good.  But in her death she did something for herself that brought her happiness.  She sacrificed her life to give her son a chance at a future with the woman he loved.  She didn't do this to serve others she did it for her son who she loved.  To me this was Wynnes finest moment, she was no longer serving the nameless and the faceless.  She was for once making a choice to serve her own happiness and she desperately wanted her son to be happy and live in a world different than the one she had lived in. Throughout the books Gaider dropped many clues about her love for her son while staying true to the Character of Wynne.  Her ending finally made her real and human and not some idealized form of what the paragon heroine is.

She was the only voice of reason the mages had-- at least the most influential. Now who do they have? She was the sort of mage needed to institute reform. And she dies for Evangeline-- a templar who stands by while the magi vote for separation? Rhys takes her spot as leader of the Aequitarians? An ex-libertarian a few hours before the vote is cast? Not sold. Everything she worked for was spat on and ripped to shreds in this book by Libertarian mages-- her own son voting for something she voted against a year ago-- and she died without having seen a resolution to the mage-templar conflict. Bad end IMO. I can only hope a new mage in DA:I takes her place as the moderate reformer. 

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 19 juin 2013 - 03:09 .

[Beerfish]

Abraham_uk wrote...

If I were to purchases one book from Bioware, should Asunder be that one book?



Please note that I am a fan of both Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

Depends on if you are wanting to set things up for playing DAI or if you just want more of a geneal story about how DA came into being in the 1st place.  I would read the 1st one, the stolen throne as it does a fine job of setting up very key characters for DA.

[lil yonce]

Beerfish wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

It was okay. I mostly liked the plot, and receiving more lore or more detail on some lore, but I thought the book was too long, and every character annoyed me. Except Wynne, and *Spoiler Alert* I hate that she died for Evangeline. Bad end.

Really? Even Rhys? different strokes I guess

*SPOILER**
Rhys for me was one of the most unlikeable, wishy washy, traitorous characters in any book I've read.  A protagonist that was supposed to be liked by the audinece but instead was a reckless, very selfish and very stupid character.

My feelings exactly.

[Abraham_uk]

Is Rhys really that bad (please note I haven't read the book)?

I am a rare individual. I like to see flawed characters who betray their friends, make stupid choices and get themselves killed. Because when I look at those flawed individuals I can relate.

The more flawed and horrible they are as people the more I think, I've met people like that in real life. They mean well but always make the wrong choices. They have good intentions but end up betraying everyone without even realizing they've done so. If Rhy is that kind of character, he is my kind of character.

We all make mistakes right?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 19 juin 2013 - 03:26 .

[Beerfish]

Youth4Ever wrote...


She was the only voice of reason the mages had-- at least the most influential. Now who do they have? She was the sort of mage needed to institute reform. And she dies for Evangeline-- a templar who stands by while the magi vote for separation? Rhys takes her spot as leader of the Aequitarians? An ex-libertarian a few hours before the vote is cast? Not sold. Everything she worked for was spat on and ripped to shreds in this book by Libertarian mages-- her own son voting for something she voted against a year ago-- and she died without having seen a resolution to the mage-templar conflict. Bad end IMO. I can only hope a new mage in DA:I takes her place as the moderate reformer. 

SPOILERS below!


Exactly.  The only two characters that remained conistent in the game were two that were supposed to be villains or part villains.  Lambert and the red haired mage.  The following characters most of whom were supposed to be sympathetic were the exact opposite for me.

Rhys:  selfish, actions lead to problems for the mages, wishy washy,  traitor to his mothers ideals.
Evangeline:  Total traitor to here companions and ideals.
Cole:  We all know what he really is and what he really does.
Leliaina:  Horrible murderous traitor to her ideals.
Wynne: Abandons her ideals for part of the game before regaining them.  sacrifices her self only to have her sacrifce mean a total abandonent of the ideals she had for years.

[Abraham_uk]

What kind of person in real life stays true to their beliefs 100% of the time?

I thought hypocrites were common place.
Aren't we all hypocrites?

[Beerfish]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Is Rhys really that bad (please not I haven't read the book)?

I am a rare individual. I like to see flawed characters who betray their friends, make stupid choices and get themselves killed. Because when I look at those flawed individuals I can relate.

The more flawed and horrible they are as people the more I think, I've met people like that in real life. They mean well but always make the wrong choices. They have good intentions but end up betraying everyone without even realizing they've done so. If Rhy is that kind of character, he is my kind of character.

We all make mistakes right?

Well if you have not read the book you may not want to read these posts with spoilers in them.

Let me just say that some of the worst people I have known are ones that come off as having one type of of innocent personality and yet their overall actions over time are the opposite and lots of people pay a heavy price for their own selfish actions.

[lil yonce]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Is Rhys really that bad (please not I haven't read the book)? I am a rare individual. I like to see flawed characters who betray their friends, make stupid choices and get themselves killed. Because when I look at those flawed individuals I can relate. The more flawed and horrible they are as people the more I think, I've met people like that in real life. They mean well but always make the wrong choices. They have good intentions but end up betraying everyone without even realizing they've done so. If Rhy is that kind of character, he is my kind of character. We all make mistakes right?

No. That sounds more like Adrian and Fiona. Rhys is another story. For example, considering his field of study, he has very questionable judgment. When another character (not a mage) schools you in your area of expertise, you look kinda stupid.

[Beerfish]

Abraham_uk wrote...

What kind of person in real life stays true to their beliefs 100% of the time?

I thought hypocrites were common place.
Aren't we all hypocrites?

Sure we are to a point it all depends on the scale of the actions though.

[Abraham_uk]

Well, when you put it that way you make me want to read the book even more.

People who come across like A but are more like B.
That's pretty hard to pull off.

[Beerfish]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Well, when you put it that way you make me want to read the book even more.

People who come across like A but are more like B.
That's pretty hard to pull off.

It's more like come across as A, then go to B, then back to A then to C then back to B.  All the while ruining the lives of a host of people with each flip flop and being 100% oblivious while almost always only thinking of himself.

[Abraham_uk]

Beerfish wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Well, when you put it that way you make me want to read the book even more.

People who come across like A but are more like B.
That's pretty hard to pull off.

It's more like come across as A, then go to B, then back to A then to C then back to B.  All the while ruining the lives of a host of people with each flip flop and being 100% oblivious while almost always only thinking of himself.

I like this character already.

[Ieldra]

Abraham_uk wrote...
If I were to purchases one book from Bioware, should Asunder be that one book?

Please note that I am a fan of both Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

Yes, it should. I've read all ME and DA books. David Gaider's books are better than anything ever written for ME, but The Stolen Throne and The Calling are still not really good. Asunder is good.

[Ieldra]

Beerfish wrote...
Exactly.  The only two characters that remained conistent in the game were two that were supposed to be villains or part villains.  Lambert and the red haired mage.  The following characters most of whom were supposed to be sympathetic were the exact opposite for me.

Rhys:  selfish, actions lead to problems for the mages, wishy washy,  traitor to his mothers ideals.
Evangeline:  Total traitor to here companions and ideals.
Cole:  We all know what he really is and what he really does.
Leliaina:  Horrible murderous traitor to her ideals.
Wynne: Abandons her ideals for part of the game before regaining them.  sacrifices her self only to have her sacrifce mean a total abandonent of the ideals she had for years.

You mean these characters were flexible and could change their minds after learning from their experiences instead of rigidly sticking to an ideology. You mean that characters could have doubts and not be certain if they're right or wrong when making unprecedented decisions, instead of remaining secure in the rightness of their ideologies.

Ideological certainty is not a virtue, which is why it's a trait of the more questionable characters in this story. Perhaps you don't care for that message, but there it is.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 juin 2013 - 03:50 .

[Browneye_Vamp84]

I was taken back when I saw Fiona. I loved Loghain in the earlier novels. Duncan was badass. Kell and his Hafter ...brought tears to my eyes. Shale of course was amazing. I love all the characters. The end of 'The Calling' and 'Asunder' are tied for being my favorite endings. (though all of them have good endings)

[lil yonce]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
Exactly.  The only two characters that remained conistent in the game were two that were supposed to be villains or part villains.  Lambert and the red haired mage.  The following characters most of whom were supposed to be sympathetic were the exact opposite for me.

Rhys:  selfish, actions lead to problems for the mages, wishy washy,  traitor to his mothers ideals.
Evangeline:  Total traitor to here companions and ideals.
Cole:  We all know what he really is and what he really does.
Leliaina:  Horrible murderous traitor to her ideals.
Wynne: Abandons her ideals for part of the game before regaining them.  sacrifices her self only to have her sacrifce mean a total abandonent of the ideals she had for years.

You mean these characters were flexible and could change their minds after learning from their experiences instead of rigidly sticking to an ideology. You mean that characters could have doubts and not be certain if they're right or wrong when making unprecedented decisions, instead of remaining secure in the rightness of their ideologies. Ideological certainty is not a virtue, which is why it's a trait of the more questionable characters in this story. Perhaps you don't care for that message, but there it is.

Rhys can't decide what he wants or believes in and puts many lives on the line for a cause he isn't fully behind. Evangeline does a 180 instead of stablizing her viewpoint. Cole was never really sympathetic to me and I liked his apperances less and less as the book went on. I liked Wynne-- hated she was willing to throw everything away for a son she scarcely knew but liked she stablized before her emotions could get the better of her.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 19 juin 2013 - 08:34 .

[Beerfish]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
Exactly.  The only two characters that remained conistent in the game were two that were supposed to be villains or part villains.  Lambert and the red haired mage.  The following characters most of whom were supposed to be sympathetic were the exact opposite for me.

Rhys:  selfish, actions lead to problems for the mages, wishy washy,  traitor to his mothers ideals.
Evangeline:  Total traitor to here companions and ideals.
Cole:  We all know what he really is and what he really does.
Leliaina:  Horrible murderous traitor to her ideals.
Wynne: Abandons her ideals for part of the game before regaining them.  sacrifices her self only to have her sacrifce mean a total abandonent of the ideals she had for years.

You mean these characters were flexible and could change their minds after learning from their experiences instead of rigidly sticking to an ideology. You mean that characters could have doubts and not be certain if they're right or wrong when making unprecedented decisions, instead of remaining secure in the rightness of their ideologies.

Ideological certainty is not a virtue, which is why it's a trait of the more questionable characters in this story. Perhaps you don't care for that message, but there it is.

Yes, it is called being wishy washy and moving when the wind blows.  Which in itself in a day to day life is not the worst thing.  When it involves being a traitor to those that support you along the way.  When it means many deaths along the way due to your actions.  when it means your actions have a massive effect on large areas of the population it is a problem.  Especially when a number of these decisions are knee jerk or totally selfish and self serving.  The main protagonist, despite being painted as one type of funny carefree individual, his actions caused many deaths and a lot of despair and most of them were because of his own selfish motives.

[Zack_Nero]

Yea, the first book wasn't that good, if felt like it had a bit of a pacing problem. I over looked that because it was in the spam of a few years. The second was an improvement but it still had a bit of a pacing issue. And the Asunder it was really hard to let it go. Whenever I said one chapter tonight, it would be three. His best book yet.

[DKJaigen]

She was the only voice of reason the mages had-- at least the most influential. Now who do they have? She was the sort of mage needed to institute reform. And she dies for Evangeline-- a templar who stands by while the magi vote for separation? Rhys takes her spot as leader of the Aequitarians? An ex-libertarian a few hours before the vote is cast? Not sold. Everything she worked for was spat on and ripped to shreds in this book by Libertarian mages-- her own son voting for something she voted against a year ago-- and she died without having seen a resolution to the mage-templar conflict. Bad end IMO. I can only hope a new mage in DA:I takes her place as the moderate reformer.

Oh i dont know. templars barging into a conclave and killing mages without provocation tends alter a persons outlook.

[DKJaigen]

Beerfish wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
Exactly.  The only two characters that remained conistent in the game were two that were supposed to be villains or part villains.  Lambert and the red haired mage.  The following characters most of whom were supposed to be sympathetic were the exact opposite for me.

Rhys:  selfish, actions lead to problems for the mages, wishy washy,  traitor to his mothers ideals.
Evangeline:  Total traitor to here companions and ideals.
Cole:  We all know what he really is and what he really does.
Leliaina:  Horrible murderous traitor to her ideals.
Wynne: Abandons her ideals for part of the game before regaining them.  sacrifices her self only to have her sacrifce mean a total abandonent of the ideals she had for years.

You mean these characters were flexible and could change their minds after learning from their experiences instead of rigidly sticking to an ideology. You mean that characters could have doubts and not be certain if they're right or wrong when making unprecedented decisions, instead of remaining secure in the rightness of their ideologies.

Ideological certainty is not a virtue, which is why it's a trait of the more questionable characters in this story. Perhaps you don't care for that message, but there it is.

Yes, it is called being wishy washy and moving when the wind blows.  Which in itself in a day to day life is not the worst thing.  When it involves being a traitor to those that support you along the way.  When it means many deaths along the way due to your actions.  when it means your actions have a massive effect on large areas of the population it is a problem.  Especially when a number of these decisions are knee jerk or totally selfish and self serving.  The main protagonist, despite being painted as one type of funny carefree individual, his actions caused many deaths and a lot of despair and most of them were because of his own selfish motives.

Tsk templars supporters are so predicatable.

[lil yonce]

DKJaigen wrote...

Oh i dont know. templars barging into a conclave and killing mages without provocation tends alter a persons outlook.

This is a literary analysis. Not flamebait material. I won't drag this thread off-topic so if you wish to respond to something I post here put it into context. My opinion is not based on your reading of the book or your standard for the magi. Respect that.

[Beerfish]

DKJaigen wrote...



Tsk templars supporters are so predicatable.

No this has very little to do with being a supporter to either side.  If you can defend the actions of the people I have been critical of be my guest and we'll discuss those actions.  (As an aside you would have to admit that mage supporters are just as predictable no?)

[DKJaigen]

Youth4Ever wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Oh i dont know. templars barging into a conclave and killing mages without provocation tends alter a persons outlook.

This is a literary analysis. Not flamebait material. I won't drag this thread off-topic so if you wish to respond to something I post here put it into context. My opinion is not based on your reading of the book or your standard for the magi. Respect that.

You ignore facts. both Wynne and Evagaline experienced something that destroyed their believes. Thats not wishy washy thats recentering in what you believe in. and it didnt happen with a rather traumatic experience for both of them.

[DKJaigen]

Beerfish wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...



Tsk templars supporters are so predicatable.

No this has very little to do with being a supporter to either side.  If you can defend the actions of the people I have been critical of be my guest and we'll discuss those actions.  (As an aside you would have to admit that mage supporters are just as predictable no?)

I do not support either side right now. But its fun to watch how judgemental templar supporters are.

[lil yonce]

DKJaigen wrote...

You ignore facts. both Wynne and Evagaline experienced something that destroyed their believes. Thats not wishy washy thats recentering in what you believe in. and it didnt happen with a rather traumatic experience for both of them.

I'm not going to respond to you. Know that you are wasting your time responding to my posts.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 19 juin 2013 - 04:47 .