418 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You know they could have made some more money on this and given us the Day 1 DLC free if they'd only done this: sold an ad for Duracell on the Crucible. I think I would have died.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 19 juin 2013 - 10:04 .

[David7204]

If the technology is on the Citadel, it's there because the Catalyst and Reapers put it there.

Modifié par David7204, 19 juin 2013 - 10:05 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

David7204 wrote...

They are not Crucible functions. Why in the hell would the Catalyst offer them to Shepard if they were?

Because their needs are aligned.

Plus the fact that they're physically a part of the Citadel and not the Crucible.

No they aren't. Refer to the picture.

Plus the fact the the Catalyst flat-out says the Crucible is merely a power source (which means it's power and nothing else) and has no reason to lie.

You're deliberately ignoring my response. What kind of power source? Battery? Nuke??

The Catalyst goes on to describe the other options as different ways to release its energy. Refer to the quotes.

It's clearly not just a battery.

Plus the fact that raises the question of why the Crucible needs the Citadel to function at all.

Citadel = mass-relay control unit. It hooks it up to the relay system so the relays transport the blast to disperse through the whole galaxy (makes sense, given the Reapers would be dispersed themselves).

Vendetta said the Crucible alone is not sufficiently powerful enough, so that's the solution -- use the relays.

As EDI said, using their tech against them. Vendetta confirms, "Precisely."

Plus the fact that it makes no sense at all that the Crucible could have those functions built into it without the Alliance and whatever knowing.

They did know. Post-Coup, Hackett says they're convinced it will stop the Reapers through energy dispersal.

They were mostly right.

The whole "we don't know what it will do" was just hype, played up to create suspense. It's the ME3 version of ME2's "oh noez it's a suicide mission, everyone's gonna die!"

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

HYR 2.0. You're overthinking this. The Crucible is there because there was no other way to win the game. If the writer didn't put it there they might as well have put right after "We fight or we die" -- Critical Mission Failure: Game Over; You Lose. Shortest game ever.

Okay. Thank you for agreeing with me?

Reapers in story... not innocent. Starboy.... not innocent. Guilty as charged. Do you understand?

Godchild is not innocent. The Reapers are. Innocent, on account of "diminished-responsibility."

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Bill Casey wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Repeating lies don't make them true.

And yet you continue to do so...

Prove it.

[David7204]

No, you really can't call anything from a battery to a nuclear weapon a 'power source.' You call a nuclear weapon a nuclear weapon.

Pretty much any weapon in existence works through dispersal of energy. A knife or club works by dispersing knietic energy. So does a bullet. A laser might work by dispersing thermal energy. So that really counts for nothing.

Modifié par David7204, 19 juin 2013 - 10:15 .

[xlegionx]

David7204 wrote...

No, you really can't call anything from a battery to a nuclear weapon a 'power source.' You call a nuclear weapon a nuclear weapon.

QFT.

It doesn't matter what kind of power source it is, calling it a power source still means it provides power. And as I said in my other post, the likelihood that the "nubbin" illustrated in that image merged with the citadel that quickly is improbable

[AlanC9]

David7204 wrote...

They are not Crucible functions. Why in the hell would the Catalyst offer them to Shepard if they were? Plus the fact that they're physically a part of the Citadel and not the Crucible. Plus the fact the the Catalyst flat-out says the Crucible is merely a power source (which means it's power and nothing else) and has no reason to lie.

The actual quote is "little more than a power source." Which, of course, means that it is not power and nothing else, since there is more. It's also "crude, but efeffective and adaptive"

Unusually sloppy by your standards.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 juin 2013 - 10:22 .

[David7204]

I knew it was something like that. It's clear the Crucible is there to provide juice, and that's it.

[wolfhowwl]

Please forgive Bill, the ending broke his mind.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

xlegionx wrote...

@HYR 2.0: In many of the statements from the Catalyst above, he says "add your energy to the Crucible's" or "the energy of the Crucible", which solidifies the fact that its a power source. And a nuclear weapon is not a power source. a power source, like a battery provides power so that something else can carry out its own function.

So the function of a human body is to metamorphize (sp?) organics in the galaxy? 

'Still say my bomb explanation makes more sense.

'Adequetely explains how it can take multiple functions, effects. Like a dual bio/cyber-warfare device.

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Out of curiosity though, OP, why do you call Synthesis "Sync"?

Formatting.

[Redbelle]

If the function's are crucible related, rather than catalyst related, then we hit a snag......

Why is the Catalyst deemed an important componant of the crucible and deemed incomplete if the Catalyst is not incorporated?

For that matter. Why, in refuse, does the beam shut down when the choices, through the Cat, are rejected? If the Crucible was a machine, independent of outside influence, it surely should have stayed on...... something switched it off. And the person who can stop something from happening ultimately exercises control.

Finally, why does the Catalyst say, paraphrasing, "The crucible is changing me. Making new options available".

I submit that the Catalyst took control of the crucible on it docking with the citadel. Maintained it's power feed, or maintained its functionality, and ultimately seized the function's contained within it.

However, the Catalyst still operates according to it's agenda. No matter that it gives the options up for grabs to the player. It also states that it has been trying to destroy the plans for the Crucible throughout the cycles. Demonstrating a tendency to reject ideas unless they are forced upon it.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Please forgive Bill, the ending broke his mind.

The Joker broke Harvey Dent's mind, doesn't excuse Dent for trying to make others feel his pain.

Ya don't pamper a mad dog.

[AlanC9]

David7204 wrote...

I knew it was something like that. It's clear the Crucible is there to provide juice, and that's it.

That's clear? Really?

Anyway, where are you going with this? Control, Destroy, and Synthesis were deliberately designed into the Citadel? The Catalyst wants the Crucible docked and used , but the Reapers didn't get the memo and that's why they're shooting at it? Or have the Reapers rebelled against the Crucible plan?

[xlegionx]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

xlegionx wrote...

@HYR 2.0: In many of the statements from the Catalyst above, he says "add your energy to the Crucible's" or "the energy of the Crucible", which solidifies the fact that its a power source. And a nuclear weapon is not a power source. a power source, like a battery provides power so that something else can carry out its own function.

So the function of a human body is to metamorphize (sp?) organics in the galaxy? 

'Still say my bomb explanation makes more sense.

'Adequetely explains how it can take multiple functions, effects. Like a dual bio/cyber-warfare device.

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Out of curiosity though, OP, why do you call Synthesis "Sync"?

Formatting.

Well there is also the fact that in Destroy and Synthesis, it is the Citadel that emits the "energy wave" (for lack of better explanation). So the Citadel must have had some design in regards to the endings prior to the Crucible.

[David7204]

There's problems either way. But there's less problems with that explanation than the alternative.

[AlanC9]

Redbelle wrote...

For that matter. Why, in refuse, does the beam shut down when the choices, through the Cat, are rejected? If the Crucible was a machine, independent of outside influence, it surely should have stayed on...... something switched it off. And the person who can stop something from happening ultimately exercises control.

That would be Shepard. All the Catalyst can do at that point is obey him. He wants the Crucible off? It's off.

Finally, why does the Catalyst say, paraphrasing, "The crucible is changing me. Making new options available".

I submit that the Catalyst took control of the crucible on it docking with the citadel. Maintained it's power feed, or maintained its functionality, and ultimately seized the function's contained within it.
.

I'm not quite certain what you mean by "seized" here. What options are you saying the Catalyst had?

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 juin 2013 - 10:30 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

xlegionx wrote...

Well there is also the fact that in Destroy and Synthesis, it is the Citadel that emits the "energy wave" (for lack of better explanation). So the Citadel must have had some design in regards to the endings prior to the Crucible.

The Citadel is the relay master-control unit. The blast of the Crucible was not adequete enough to spread across the whole galaxy an affect all Reapers, so I'm saying the cycles that fought the Reapers corrected that by having the Citadel target the energy into the relays, and thus spread throughout the relay-connected galaxy.

I'll have to look up the Control epilogue to see what the deal is with that one.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 19 juin 2013 - 10:38 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

 that's obvious.The catalyst doesn't give you choices,it just explains the choices

[AlanC9]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

xlegionx wrote...

Well there is also the fact that in Destroy and Synthesis, it is the Citadel that emits the "energy wave" (for lack of better explanation). So the Citadel must have had some design in regards to the endings prior to the Crucible.

The Citadel is the relay master-control unit. The blast of the Crucible was not adequete enough to spread across the whole galaxy an affect all Reapers, so I'm saying the cycles that fought the Reapers corrected that by having the Citadel target the energy into the relays, and thus spread throughout the relay-connected galaxy.

I'll have to look up the Control epilogue to see what the deal is with that one.

Don't forget that the Citadel is also a relay; looks to me like the Crucible depends on the Citadel Relay to propagate the effect into the network.
The thing we see exploding on the Citadel is the Citadel Relay, which emits the wave and then explodes. This caused all sorts of confusion pre-EC when lots of people believed that the Citadel Relay detonated offscreen, not realizing they'd already seen it do all the exploding it was going to do.

[AlexMBrennan]

Relevant Quotes:

All depend on you blindly taking Catalyst's word for everything, so you are begging the question.

3.) Solutions to Both Problems.

The only outstanding issue left is that the Crucible doesn't simply solve your problem (the Reapers) but it also solves the Catalyst's problem (tech singularity). 'Seems "all too convenient" that your options all seem to help him out.

True, it makes some sort of sense that solving the problem that has the Reapers riled up (assuming, for the moment, that it exists - which remains unproven), but it is still incredibly contrived and unlikely: Hundreds of species trying to find a way to stop an armada of superdreadnoughts from killing them iteratively developed a solution to a problem they didn't know existed, and it so happened that finding that solution (even if it is not used - destroy/control) placated the Reapers... That's pure coincidence i.e. something that is possible but makes for a terrible story.

[xlegionx]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

xlegionx wrote...

Well there is also the fact that in Destroy and Synthesis, it is the Citadel that emits the "energy wave" (for lack of better explanation). So the Citadel must have had some design in regards to the endings prior to the Crucible.

The Citadel is the relay master-control unit. The blast of the Crucible was not adequete enough to spread across the whole galaxy an affect all Reapers, so I'm saying the cycles that fought the Reapers corrected that by having the Citadel target the energy into the relays, and thus spread throughout the relay-connected galaxy.

I'll have to look up the Control epilogue to see what the deal is with that one.

Yea, Control is weird, the energy wave expands directly from Shepard for some obscure reason

[ruggly]

But I need things to complain about!

[Steelcan]

I'd say Destroy comes from the Crucible, it is its known function. Control comes from the Citadel/Catalyst. These devices working in conjunction, organic and synthetic combined, make synthesis possible

[The Night Mammoth]

I prefer to think of them as its choices, because otherwise it would raise the question of how the Alliance built Destroy, Control, and Synthesis into the Crucible and yet still didn't know how it worked, and whether the Catalyst knows anything about the Crucible at all if it's merely a power source.