356 réponses à ce sujet

[Azaron Nightblade]

Elfman wrote...

Meredith may have been in her forties or something, but she was definitely quite attractive.

But OP, I agree, I don't like it either. The only reason I can give for Anora being so beautiful is that she wouldn't have been married to the King of Fereldan if she looked like a foot, or to be 'surprising' when you discover she's just as power grabby as her dad, when until that point she'd been portrayed as the good guy in the Loghain/Howe cutscenes.

I imagine Meredith was quite the looker when she was young, and she aged very gracefully - but my point was that she wasn't "OMG dead drop gorgeous".
With the exception of Isabella I can't think of many attractive females from DA2 at all - even the employees of the Rose seemed rather plain.
Not to mention they gave all the Elves Down's Syndrome, rather than make them the usual embodiments of perfection that they are in most games/movies/books.

[Adela]

Morocco Mole wrote...

And everyone in Origins had brown, rotting teeth

 thas because i dont think they had the luxure of brushing their theeth in the middle ages....

[Azaron Nightblade]

ag99 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

And everyone in Origins had brown, rotting teeth

 thas because i dont think they had the luxure of brushing their theeth in the middle ages....

Strawberries.
If you could afford them. 
Or at least that's something I've heard somewhere, not sure how accurate it is given the sweetness of strawberries.

[TCBC_Freak]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Can it be flipped? Yes, but it's not easy, and it has be done for more than just doing it "because."

What do you mean by 'Can it be flipped?'

I mean, can the ugly character be the paragon of virtue, can you have a plan character be the love interest? Yes you can. But it isn't easy to do because it's a fantasy medium, same as movies and books and graphic novels and music and everything. It breaks from reality by definition so doing something "real" is difficult because it's all up in the uncanny valley, for different reasons than say a robot but still. It has to be a choice that you make and plan for, not just something you do because you want to be "different," or "edgy."

[Nyaore]

Elfman wrote...

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Flemeth was a great example in DA:O, and yet she was sexified in the sequel.  
There can still be (and there will still be) beautiful female characters such as Cassandra, but variety would be nice. The same goes for male characters.

Flemeth is also a powerful, shapeshifting Witch - I suspect she can appear pretty much anyway that she wants.
Also, you are forgetting Meredith from DA2 - who played a big role in the story, and wasn't exactly a princess.

Meredith may have been in her forties or something, but she was definitely quite attractive.

But OP, I agree, I don't like it either. The only reason I can give for Anora being so beautiful is that she wouldn't have been married to the King of Fereldan if she looked like a foot, or to be 'surprising' when you discover she's just as power grabby as her dad, when until that point she'd been portrayed as the good guy in the Loghain/Howe cutscenes.

Sadly people are often willing to give people a pass on their behavior or automatically assume they're a good person if they're physically appealing or implied to be in a position of power. I know most of us aren't the target demographic for these series I'm going to reference, but why do you guys think that characters like Edward Cullen (Twilight) or Chrisitian Grey (FSoG) are often blindly worshipped in spite of their numerous faults? It's not because they have stellar personalities. Edward is as boring as cardboard when he's not being a controlling ****, and Grey is a near sociopath who uses the BDSM lifestyle to justify his abusive tendencies. The reason is pretty simple if you look at many of the gushing comments about those two series. They're both described as horrendously attractive and with a lot of wealth and power thrown into the mix, and when you throw in the 'bad boy who needs to be fixed by the right woman' trope it's a powerful combination that often makes people ignore their actual actions. I can guarantee you right here and now that if you took away even their looks, they wouldn't be as loved as they are. I've seen many of the same people who praise those two characters as wonderful people look on in revoltion when a similar character with a less than pleasing appearance is introduced in another series.

Good looks, sadly, are often synonymous with 'virtue' or 'goodness'. While the more ugly the character is, the less likely we are to trust them or put them on a pedastal.

Modifié par Nyaore, 19 juin 2013 - 11:35 .

[Mr.House]

I'm more concerned with the body structure then face tbh. Bioware tends to make all females look skinny and make males buff and don't get me started on what they did to poor femshep in ME2/ME3.

[RohnanJon]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

RohnanJon wrote...

Sex sells. Sad but true.

And who is the primary target?

Which gender is more likely to be portrayed as sexy? Which gender is more likely to be designed with looks being paramount?

 

It's likely that women will be sexualised. From my own experience the group of people that buy and play the most videogames is heterosexual men. I suppose that it doesn't hurt to have female NPCs that are easy on the eyes.
However, I do agree with you that Anora should have had some resemblance to Loghain. But in regards to Loghain's distinctive nose, the nose and the ears do grow with age, and we know Anora's about twenty nine during the events of Origins, so Loghain might have been in his fifties or sixties.

[Grog Muffins]

I don't really think it has that much to do with the "sex sells" mentality. Yes, it's a factor sometimes, but it's not the only one. If we look at entertainment in general, video games and animation in particular, we see this trend: women are beautiful, sexy etc. most of the times, while men are more varied in the physical aspect department. I think it has to do with the mentality that most audiences prefer this:

- most men want women to be beautiful
- most women overlook men's physical aspect in favor of personality

Now, I'm not saying this is rule of God, that men don't like personality or women don't like physical attractiveness in characters of the opposite sex, but it's enough of a trend to think it's valid. Think of all the Top 10/20/40 Hottest Animated/Video Game Women tops on the internet and how many of them are physically attractive (if they have a personality more complex than that of a spray can, that's a bonus) and think of the Hottest Men tops and how many of them are ranked mostly based on their persoanlities, internal struggles, character arcs or "I can fix him" degree. Why do you think Jessica Rabbit is so beloved by men? She's an awesome character but her story, personality, circumstances aren't what propel her into the position of one of the hottest animated women.

It's kind of sad that these standards exist and I hope that one day they'll change.

[Adela]

Nyaore wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Flemeth was a great example in DA:O, and yet she was sexified in the sequel.  
There can still be (and there will still be) beautiful female characters such as Cassandra, but variety would be nice. The same goes for male characters.

Flemeth is also a powerful, shapeshifting Witch - I suspect she can appear pretty much anyway that she wants.
Also, you are forgetting Meredith from DA2 - who played a big role in the story, and wasn't exactly a princess.

Meredith may have been in her forties or something, but she was definitely quite attractive.

But OP, I agree, I don't like it either. The only reason I can give for Anora being so beautiful is that she wouldn't have been married to the King of Fereldan if she looked like a foot, or to be 'surprising' when you discover she's just as power grabby as her dad, when until that point she'd been portrayed as the good guy in the Loghain/Howe cutscenes.

Sadly people are often willing to give people a pass on their behavior or automatically assume they're a good person if they're physically appealing or implied to be in a position of power. I know most of us aren't the target demographic for these series I'm going to reference, but why do you guys think that characters like Edward Cullen (Twilight) or Chrisitian Grey (FSoG) are often blindly worshipped in spite of their numerous faults? It's not because they have stellar personalities. Edward is as boring as cardboard when he's not being a controlling ****, and Grey is a near sociopath who uses the BDSM lifestyle to justify his abusive tendencies. The reason is pretty simple if you look at many of the gushing comments about those two series. They're both described as horrendously attractive and with a lot of wealth and power thrown into the mix, and when you throw in the 'bad boy who needs to be fixed by the right woman' trope it's a powerful combination that often makes people ignore their actual actions. I can guarantee you right here and now that if you took away even their looks, they wouldn't be as loved as they are. I've seen many of the same people who praise those two characters as wonderful people look on in revoltion when a similar character with a less than pleasing appearance is introduced in another series.

Good looks, sadly, are often synonymous with 'virtue' or 'goodness'. While the more ugly the character is, the less likely we are to trust them or put them on a pedastal.

thats not entyrely true  for example my fav actor Ser Anthony Hopkins is really not that attractive and yet he still has quite a bit  of success and his not the only one sometimes its not  always all looks that matter

[sandalisthemaker]

Destiny_1989 wrote...

I don't really think it has that much to do with the "sex sells" mentality. Yes, it's a factor sometimes, but it's not the only one. If we look at entertainment in general, video games and animation in particular, we see this trend: women are beautiful, sexy etc. most of the times, while men are more varied in the physical aspect department. I think it has to do with the mentality that most audiences prefer this:

- most men want women to be beautiful
- most women overlook men's physical aspect in favor of personality

Now, I'm not saying this is rule of God, that men don't like personality or women don't like physical attractiveness in characters of the opposite sex, but it's enough of a trend to think it's valid. Think of all the Top 10/20/40 Hottest Animated/Video Game Women tops on the internet and how many of them are physically attractive (if they have a personality more complex than that of a spray can, that's a bonus) and think of the Hottest Men tops and how many of them are ranked mostly based on their persoanlities, internal struggles, character arcs or "I can fix him" degree. Why do you think Jessica Rabbit is so beloved by men? She's an awesome character but her story, personality, circumstances aren't what propel her into the position of one of the hottest animated women.

It's kind of sad that these standards exist and I hope that one day they'll change.

Yep. Pretty much what I'm getting at. 

[Nyaore]

ag99 wrote...

thats not entyrely true  for example my fav actor Ser Anthony Hopkins is really not that attractive and yet he still has quite a bit  of success and his not the only one sometimes its not  always all looks that matter

True, looks don't always matter thankfully. However I've noticed more often than not how a character is perceived is often effected by their looks. Exceptions do exist, and bless them for that, but if I had a dime for every time I saw someone judge someone more favorably because of their looks I'd be a very rich woman.

Modifié par Nyaore, 19 juin 2013 - 11:44 .

[Blooddrunk1004]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Flemeth was a great example in DA:O, and yet she was sexified in the sequel.  
There can still be (and there will still be) beautiful female characters such as Cassandra, but variety would be nice. The same goes for male characters.

Flemeth is also a powerful, shapeshifting Witch - I suspect she can appear pretty much anyway that she wants.
Also, you are forgetting Meredith from DA2 - who played a big role in the story, and wasn't exactly a princess.

It's still lame excuse. When i saw Flemeth going from scary old woman to MILF with hair antlers i almost throwed my keyboard in the damn screen. I understand she can shapeshift, but does she really have to shapeshift into a ****bag sorceress from Final Fantasy 8?

[MattH]

More variation is obviously good.

I thought they did a better job in DA2 with the women on the team. I wouldn't call Aveline, Isabela or Merrill typically 'good looking'. I mean, Isabela had some ridiculous cleavage and sexuality was ingraved into her personality, but looking at her face it's not the traditional beauty. While she is sexualised, at least its in character. If Aveline was diving into street brawls in thigh high boots and little else, there would be no excusing it.

Lets face it, the only eye-candy worth mentioning from either game is Varric. Daymn.

Modifié par MH19, 19 juin 2013 - 11:47 .

[Potato Cat]

ag99 wrote... 
thats not entyrely true  for example my fav actor Ser Anthony Hopkins is really not that attractive and yet he still has quite a bit  of success and his not the only one sometimes its not  always all looks that matter

Probably not the best example to be fair, considering he's most famous for his role as Hannibal Lecter.

[Adela]

Elfman wrote...

ag99 wrote... 
thats not entyrely true  for example my fav actor Ser Anthony Hopkins is really not that attractive and yet he still has quite a bit  of success and his not the only one sometimes its not  always all looks that matter

Probably not the best example to be fair, considering he's most famous for his role as Hannibal Lecter.

he played in many movies such as dracula bad company  silence of the lamb  the right and thats just to name a few  his a  AWESOME actor  and it has nothing to do with looks 

[nightscrawl]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Just curious. How much do you think Angelina Jolie looks like her father Jon Voight?

This pretty much. I look nothing like my mother. It is certainly possible that Anora takes after her mother, or even after Loghain's mother. The looks of a single parent don't have to determine the looks of their child.

That said, I do think it just tends to work out better, story wise, if the parents and children look alike. However, the game isn't even entirely accurate in Loghain's appearance either, as he is described in the novels as having icy blue eyes, but does not in the game.

For a real-life example of great parent-child casting, I would point to the recently cancelled Vegas. Dennis Quaid's son in that was played by 30-year-old Taylor Handley (who some of you might have seen in a recent Playstation commerical). Having watched The Right Stuff recently with a 30-year-old Dennis Quaid, I can say that the casting is spot on. This is in addition to the mannerisms that Taylor has that make him very similar to Dennis from that age-range. It realy added to my enjoyment of the show.

Also, to further the Angelina Jolie example, her and Brad's daughter Shiloh not only looks like a perfect combination of the two of them, but also looks exactly like Angelina did at that age, including the blonde hair, which she (Angelina) lost as she got older. In the upcoming movie Maleficent (about the Evil Queen from Sleeping Beauty), even though some of Angie's kids are in it, they cast a young actress that looks more like Angelina of today, rather than her own daughter, who actually looks like she really looked as a child.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 juin 2013 - 11:55 .

[Daralii]

Mr.House wrote...

I'm more concerned with the body structure then face tbh. Bioware tends to make all females look skinny and make males buff and don't get me started on what they did to poor femshep in ME2/ME3.

"I'm more interested in just talking for a bit"

[Azaron Nightblade]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Flemeth was a great example in DA:O, and yet she was sexified in the sequel.  
There can still be (and there will still be) beautiful female characters such as Cassandra, but variety would be nice. The same goes for male characters.

Flemeth is also a powerful, shapeshifting Witch - I suspect she can appear pretty much anyway that she wants.
Also, you are forgetting Meredith from DA2 - who played a big role in the story, and wasn't exactly a princess.

It's still lame excuse. When i saw Flemeth going from scary old woman to MILF with hair antlers i almost throwed my keyboard in the damn screen. I understand she can shapeshift, but does she really have to shapeshift into a ****bag sorceress from Final Fantasy 8?

Oh, I definitely agree with you there - I thought DA2's Flemeth looked utterly ridiculous.

Elfman wrote...

ag99 wrote... 
thats not entyrely true  for example my fav actor Ser Anthony Hopkins is really not that attractive and yet he still has quite a bit  of success and his not the only one sometimes its not  always all looks that matter

Probably not the best example to be fair, considering he's most famous for his role as Hannibal Lecter.

He's still awesome though!
But yeah, he pretty much started out as a villain.

[Potato Cat]

ag99 wrote...
he played in many movies such as dracula bad company  silence of the lamb  the right and thats just to name a few  his a  AWESOME actor  and it has nothing to do with looks 

I'm not arguing with you, but Nyaore's comment was based on how good looks connote trustworthiness, and you came up with the man who played a cannibalistic serial killer as a sort of contradiction to her argument. 

[duckley]

In theory I agree that as a culture we put too much emphasis on physical beauty and that we have higher standards for women over men. Nonetheless, this is a video game - fantasy - and an escape. If I want plain and ugly - I need only look in the mirror.

[Adela]

Elfman wrote...

ag99 wrote...
he played in many movies such as dracula bad company  silence of the lamb  the right and thats just to name a few  his a  AWESOME actor  and it has nothing to do with looks 

I'm not arguing with you, but Nyaore's comment was based on how good looks connote trustworthiness, and you came up with the man who played a cannibalistic serial killer as a sort of contradiction to her argument. 

well in that case i guess i would have to go with anora  she looks pretty but shes not exactly the nicest person

[Mr.House]

duckley wrote...

In theory I agree that as a culture we put too much emphasis on physical beauty and that we have higher standards for women over men. Nonetheless, this is a video game - fantasy - and an escape. If I want plain and ugly - I need only look in the mirror.

At least give us body structures that make sense.

[AshenShug4r]

Another men are terrible, women are angels thread.