356 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

ag99 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

And everyone in Origins had brown, rotting teeth

 thas because i dont think they had the luxure of brushing their theeth in the middle ages....

This is not actually true.  During the Middle Ages, people did indeed clean their teeth.  A lot of what people assume about that period is just a load of so much crap.

Modifié par Silfren, 20 juin 2013 - 08:13 .

[FKA_Servo]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I would love to know how you know this.

Obviously, this doesn't speak for 100% of people 100% of time, but overall, this phenomenon is well documented, and not news. There's a lot of information out there, and it's easy to find, if you care to educate yourself.

Here's a place to start.

Modifié par TommyServo, 20 juin 2013 - 08:38 .

[LinksOcarina]

TommyServo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I would love to know how you know this.

Obviously, this doesn't speak for 100% of people 100% of time, but overall, this phenomenon is well documented, and not news. There's a lot of information out there, and it's easy to find, if you care to educate yourself.

Here's a place to start.

Jim Sterling is not an education tool. He is simply A tool.

[FKA_Servo]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Jim Sterling is not an education tool. He is simply A tool.

That doesn't invalidate what he says here. I know nothing about him beyond a few videos of his that I've seen (this is the one that made me pay attention to him), but this is good stuff.
 

[Dave of Canada]

keightdee wrote...

The difference there is that the "Adonis" physiques in male characters that you're referencing are a male power fantasy, not your common straight woman's sexual fantasy, whereas "sexy" female characters are straight male sexual fantasies and not female power fantasies. (And anyway, should "we" be catering just to straight people? Duh, no. And Bioware doesn't, bless them.)

I'd like to point this out.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 20 juin 2013 - 08:47 .

[Mr.House]

LinksOcarina wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I would love to know how you know this.

Obviously, this doesn't speak for 100% of people 100% of time, but overall, this phenomenon is well documented, and not news. There's a lot of information out there, and it's easy to find, if you care to educate yourself.

Here's a place to start.

Jim Sterling is not an education tool. He is simply A tool.

I like how you just ignore everything and then call Jim a tool.

Modifié par Mr.House, 20 juin 2013 - 08:53 .

[bleetman]

Qistina wrote...

Look at SWTOR, all races share the same body, only the heads are different, but that is not the issue, the male body having humungous chest size, V shaped body and female body are barbie dolls-like.

Uhm.









Wut.

Swtor actually has a pretty decent variety when it comes to your character torso. You've four to choose from per gender, and all.

Modifié par bleetman, 20 juin 2013 - 09:10 .

[Mr.House]

bleetman wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Look at SWTOR, all races share the same body, only the heads are different, but that is not the issue, the male body having humungous chest size, V shaped body and female body are barbie dolls-like.

Uhm.



/snip





Wut.

Swtor actually has a pretty decent variety when it comes to your character torso.

Also good muscle tones.

Modifié par Mr.House, 20 juin 2013 - 09:11 .

[Azaron Nightblade]

bleetman wrote...

Swtor actually has a pretty decent variety when it comes to your character torso. You've four to choose from per gender, and all.

Yep, especially when compared to the direct competitors like TSW who are also focused on a storydriven MMO.
Very few MMO's give you any kind of control over your body type.
Heck, very few singleplayer RPGs do.

[FKA_Servo]

^Body type 3 is full bamf.

[Mr.House]

TommyServo wrote...

^Body type 3 is full bamf.

That's bodytype 4 :innocent:

[FKA_Servo]

Mr.House wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

^Body type 3 is full bamf.

That's bodytype 4 :innocent:

Still valid. Both are bamf.

I was referring the the trooper in bleet's post.

Modifié par TommyServo, 20 juin 2013 - 09:18 .

[Peer of the Empire]

Qistina wrote...
I don't think it fit warriors either, warriors are not body builders, this type of male body for fighters are only exist in Hollywwod, Spartan men are not so muscular like in the 300 movie, those actors are going to gym training to get that type of body. Of course warriors are tough guy (and girl) but they are not body builders, they don't consume hormones and steroids, there is no such thing in the past

...

Men must be big and macho, women must be barbie doll is Hollywood marketing. It is ridiculous in movies showing a Karate hero must have a body like WWE wrestlers

Edit : actually most of noble heroes and Knights are fat, because they drink too much, that is why most armors have a big belly part to place their big belly

The idealized warriors of many societies did indeed resemble muscle men.  Just see classic Greek statues, Tang era Chinese guardians, especially the bare chested ones, and the injunction of the ancient Celts, a people described by the Greeks as large and muscular, against any young man developing belly fat

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 20 juin 2013 - 09:21 .

[Nashimura]

I thought Loghain was somewhat attractive, ill leave now...

[Grog Muffins]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

keightdee wrote...
The difference there is that the "Adonis" physiques in male characters that you're referencing are a male power fantasy, not your common straight woman's sexual fantasy, whereas as "sexy" female characters are straight male sexual fantasies and not female power fantasies. (And anyway, should "we" be catering just to straight people? Duh, no. And Bioware doesn't, bless them.)

Curious; what is the female power fantasy?

I asked a friend of mine this, she told me Commander Shepard and how she was portrayed made her an ideal power fantasy, where she was capable without gender being involved.

I would have to agree with her.

I personally want to avoid naming Shepard because there's gender duality there and we can debate back on forth on the validity of that claim until we're blue in the face and we won't all agree. However, for me, Xena Warrior Princess is a female power fantasy: clearly a woman, feminine in certain ways but still a no nonsense badass. I haven't watched the show in more than 7 years so I don't remember everything there is to remember about her character but what stuck with me was what I mentioned above.

[Nashimura]

Destiny_1989 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

One thing I do have to wonder about -- whether the eye candy that is in video games for guys is really that effective, or if males would prefer something more in-depth as well and that devs are really being kind of lazy. After all, if a guy wants to watch porn or bouncing boobs or whatever, there are better places for that.

I have no doubt a lot of men want women who are strong characters with a lot of depth to them. I have male friends who prefer female characters to be like this and I've seen a lot of the male BSN population subscribes to this mindset, as well. It's not impossible. The other camp, however, prefer esthetic appeal firstly. It indeed boils down to personal preference.

There are, of course, characters who are both physically attractive and have great character development for both genders, like Isabela, Leliana, Alistair, Nathaniel, Fenris bla bla, Bioware writes good characters.

This is the ideal I want entertainment in general to strive towards. If you want a characters to be good looking, don't make that their defining feature, make it a bonus, they have an awesome personality and compelling character development and, in addition, look good.

Whats with the white bars? It looks like they had to be censored due to having their genitals hanging out.

[LinksOcarina]

Mr.House wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I would love to know how you know this.

Obviously, this doesn't speak for 100% of people 100% of time, but overall, this phenomenon is well documented, and not news. There's a lot of information out there, and it's easy to find, if you care to educate yourself.

Here's a place to start.

Jim Sterling is not an education tool. He is simply A tool.

I like how you just ignore everything and then call Jim a tool.

I ignore it because it is nothing new. It's the same **** that doesn't solve anything, but just puts gasoline on a fire. Sterling is basically pulling a Sarkeesian where its a superficial argument that is rife with armchair analysis and clihced presumptions of traits and tropes. There is no psychological evidence, no suggestion for a solution, no way to tackle the problem. It is basically echoing what we know.

See, I can do the same analysis too. Take for example this.



A male Knight in an Escher pose. The Escher pose refers to "Escher Girls", which is basically a trope that all female characters drawn in comic books have hourglass figures slightly or overtly pivoted to make them more sexual, with the ass facing forward and the torso twisted around.

I can legitemately argue though my own armchair analysis that this is sexual objectification since the knight here is in a provacative pose found in comic books that is often considered sexist and/or mysoginist,  which makes Dragon's Crown equal in sexual objectification as a whole as it objectifies the knight as much as it does their sorceress just by the body placement alone. It also doesn't matter if I am right, the fact that I can make that argument is easy enough.

This is why Sterling is a tool. He has no real stance on this issue, because he doesn't offer solutions. The real solution to this problem is education. Teaching aspiring artists and designers that stuff like this objectification and power fantasy artwork is not the way to go. I suspect this is why my friend thinks so highly of the character of Commander Shepard, Shepard is not objectified as either sex, and acts as that fantasy for men and women. THAT is good game design. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 20 juin 2013 - 10:41 .

[Mr.House]

Sterling has more stuff backing him up then your pathetic attempt.

[LinksOcarina]

Mr.House wrote...

Sterling has more stuff backing him up then your pathetic attempt.

You got to give more than a general statement and a video where he mugs the camera in his smug persona. 

Hell, here is a jump-off point that I respect. Anna Kipnis, Robin Hunicke and others discussing said education so that the gaming industry can change from within. That to me has more value already, and there is sadly no video of that conference that I can find. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 20 juin 2013 - 10:34 .

[Mr.House]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Sterling has more stuff backing him up then your pathetic attempt.

I like how you aren't even trying to refute his point yourself

What point? He has no point. Sterling is showing the problem so people see there is an issue. If people like him refuse to see the problem despite all the evdience Sterling brings up, along with the recent last of us scandal then that's their fault. I and many others have better things to do then argue with people who refuse to listen.

Modifié par Mr.House, 20 juin 2013 - 10:35 .

[Azaron Nightblade]

LinksOcarina wrote...

You idiot.

I do see the problem. Sterling is not helping though, hes making it worse. That's my problem. 

That's actually a good article.
And in my opinion Sterling is pretty much a sensationalist that's found a new thing to get in the spotlights with.
DoA, and the upcoming Dragon's Crown are the worst possible offenders in the whole objectification issue - but guys like Sterling like to use footage like that and pretend that the whole game industry does that, which irks me to no end each time.
If you want to paint a picture of female characters in video games at least go with Lara Croft, the original target for people trying to rile up the masses. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Filament wrote...

I think we'd have to establish what is a comparable sexually objectifying example of men, considering Kratos is not such an example. Is it the bishonen characters in anime/JRPGs? Or do they appeal more to male ideals in Japan just the same..?

(Is it complex and not so perfectly segregated between ideal and objectified? Probably.)

The new Kraft zesty commercials would be a good example of (rare) male objectification.