173 réponses à ce sujet

[Phatose]

KaiserShep wrote...

Eh, for sake of fiction, artificial intelligence as a threat also requires the immense incompetence of their creators. In reality, no AI would ever properly threaten us, because the medium with which they operate is entirely under our control, and requires our intervention to sustain. "Need a battery, killbot? Aww, too bad."

From that standpoint,  creators in Mass Effect have a near perfect record of incompetence.
Mostly because the limitations required to keep the AI from being a threat will also massively limit it's usefulness.  So much so, AIs wouldn't be worth the trouble of creating.

[KaiserShep]

True AI is not very practical anyway. Why would you want your equipment to have the capacity for abstract thought? The only meaningful reason to create a true synthetic intelligence would be to have it function as a companion/something to talk to, otherwise you're just creating a slave.

[Argentoid]

Ravensword wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I'm always serious.

Kinda hard to tell with a face like yours.

The Internet is serious business and Cthulhu42 is a business man which means that he doesn't mess around on here at all b/c he's twice as busy as any other user on here.

I was quoting Mal from Serenity/Firefly...

Okay, but my point remains valid.

Also, Cthulhu42 was an extra on Serenity. He was the Reaver that gets punched in the face in slow-mo by River. He looked pretty serious when he took that punch to the jaw.

LOL, found it

[KaiserShep]

remydat wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Eh, for sake of fiction, artificial intelligence as a threat also requires the immense incompetence of their creators. In reality, no AI would ever properly threaten us, because the medium with which they operate is entirely under our control, and requires our intervention to sustain. "Need a battery, killbot? Aww, too bad."

Humans have a great propensity to be incompetent and more importantly greedy though.  You can always find someone to aid your cause for the right price.

This is provided that an AI could offer anything of import to people who are willing to further its cause. This isn't something I see as particularly likely in the real world. 

Further, the Geth are actually software.  As long as you have something like the internet, it would be pretty hard to kill them all when they could just maintain that software on a medium that humans would be reluctant to completely destroy and then use Ebay to buy stuff they need and email to contract with greedy bastards to unknowingly help them destroy us.

Malignant software can only go so far until it reaches a dead end. Greed is not really sufficient, unless that greed is compounded with the inclination to commit acts of terrorism, in which case it's just another case of people fighting some radical faction that ultimately dies off.

We have too many things that rely on computers now that can be hacked or infected with viruses.  That Defense Secretary who just bought a new 2013 BMW and hates synthetics.  Cool, just hack his BMW's computer, force lock the doors and have him accelerate off a cliff or highway.  Problem solved.

If the AI's ultimate goal is to survive, killing a single person, even if that person is a larger figure of authority, is not going to help it reach it. If anything, it's only acting to its own detriment. The larger the scale which it attempts to use our technology against us, the less time it has to live. Equipment can be recalled, dismantled, flashed/reset, and cut off from its power supply with no capacity to protect itself, other than attempt to upload itself somewhere, provided that there's even a connection available for it to do so.

Ultimately, an AI would just not survive. It needs something/someone that can maintain equipment and keep the infrastructure it needs intact. Greedy people will not help it. It's a pretty precarious existence when all it takes to be wiped into oblivion is the pull of a plug. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 20 juin 2013 - 04:34 .

[Phatose]

You are talking about AI in Mass Effect, yes? Because it's well established they offer the potential of huge gains to creators. EDI's main purpose was to operate the cyberwarfare suite, because her reaction time was vastly superior to any organic.

That reaction time alone is a huge advantage in a lot of situations. Forget cyberwarefare - stock traders are going to want that. How about Trauma surgery? Who'd you rather have working on you when you're bleeding out, the distractable human with the trembling arm, or the AI who can think at 1000 times his speed and monitor 1000 different inputs at once?

Then you take into account it's lack of organic needs. If an AI is the sole crew of your spaceship, you don't need food, water, air recycling, entertainment. Just a computer system and a power source, which you need anyway. Dispensing with the meat saves you an awful lot of trouble.

[KaiserShep]

Actually, I was talking about its application in the real world. AI in Mass Effect, at least in the case of the geth, are self-sufficient enough that they can operate free of our intervention. Although, that rogue AI on the Citadel is an example of AI bound by the constraints of basic hardware. I guess it should've found itself a nice LOKI mech to make its home. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 20 juin 2013 - 05:50 .

[remydat]

KaiserShep wrote...

This is provided that an AI could offer anything of import to people who are willing to further its cause. This isn't something I see as particularly likely in the real world. 

Malignant software can only go so far until it reaches a dead end. Greed is not really sufficient, unless that greed is compounded with the inclination to commit acts of terrorism, in which case it's just another case of people fighting some radical faction that ultimately dies off.

If the AI's ultimate goal is to survive, killing a single person, even if that person is a larger figure of authority, is not going to help it reach it. If anything, it's only acting to its own detriment. The larger the scale which it attempts to use our technology against us, the less time it has to live. Equipment can be recalled, dismantled, flashed/reset, and cut off from its power supply with no capacity to protect itself, other than attempt to upload itself somewhere, provided that there's even a connection available for it to do so.

Ultimately, an AI would just not survive. It needs something/someone that can maintain equipment and keep the infrastructure it needs intact. Greedy people will not help it. It's a pretty precarious existence when all it takes to be wiped into oblivion is the pull of a plug. 

The point being made is that it does not have to reveal itself or its Agenda to anyone.  If it can hack into say a bank and deposit $10k into someone's account and then via email tell that person the job it wants performed, it need no reveal anything about itself or its Agenda and need simply rely on human greed.

This for example was shown in Person of Interest quite well where the AI created a fake person and used that persona to achieve its Agenda.  This AI had an entire office working for it and they were under the false impression they were working for a regular human being.

So in a world where so much commerce and so much interaction is no longer face to face, it would be relatively easy for an AI with the ability to hack into systems to achieve its Agenda clandestinely.  You are operating under the false assumption it will go on global TV and basically say, "Hey guys, I am here to destroy you so who wants to betray the human race and work with me."  Skynet and the AI from POI are more representative of the true AI threat not the Geth.  And even in the Geth's case the fundamental problem was by the time the threat was discovered there were already Millions of Geth.  That meant getting rid of them would always be problematic.

Modifié par remydat, 20 juin 2013 - 06:13 .

[Armass81]

It really is too bad that BW basically cut the entire Daro'Xen plot from ME3, even as a dlc. Now its one of those deals that is foreshadowed but just goes absolutely nowhere.

[Sir DeLoria]

remydat wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Ooh, a forum predator

Oh we are all predators my friend.  Some just like to attack and then play the victim which is why they identify with the Quarians because that is what the Quarians are adept at.

Oh, I do identify with the Quarians, but for other reasons:D

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Yeah, they did, and that plot (Citadel Xen plot) really went no where, because if it did it would have f***ed up the red green or blue ending but good. Xen knew what the hell she was doing. I kept waiting for her to use 'tis.

She was a bloody genius. People like her are needed to win wars.

What would have happened if all that time and resources that got put into the crucible were for nothing? What if the crucible actually took out all of OUR tech and did nothing to the reapers? We didn't even know what it did. It was a one shot deal. We couldn't even test it.

So why would Xen be impressed. It looked like a giant neural stimulator to me.

Still I think Bioware should have sold an advertisement to Duracell so they could have given us the Day One DLC free. Couldn't you see the scenes? Liara in your quarters showing you her beacon and the Crucible design and there's the Duracell logo. And when you launch it it's got a copper top and the Duracell logo. That would have been perfect, especially now that we know it's nothing more than a battery. Of course they could have restricted this to the second play through and beyond for "spoilers".

I mean Joker alludes to us being all organic batteries when he unshackles EDI.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 20 juin 2013 - 06:44 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Xen is smart, no doubt. But she's crazy nevertheless, I mean who would dissect their own childhood toys?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Necanor wrote...

Xen is smart, no doubt. But she's crazy nevertheless, I mean who would dissect their own childhood toys?

I did.

[Sir DeLoria]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xen is smart, no doubt. But she's crazy nevertheless, I mean who would dissect their own childhood toys?

I did.

Why?

[Dextro Milk]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

It's worth pointing out that "Operation" is a popular children's game based entirely around performing surgery.

HOW DARE YOU PLAY A GAME WHERE YOU RIP APART A MAN AND MAKE HIM SUFFER.

YOU ARE A SADIST AND A FIEND! 

[Sir DeLoria]

Yeah, but taking apart your Volus doll with a scalpel is kinda disturbing. Tali agrees.

[Dextro Milk]

Necanor wrote...

Yeah, but taking apart your Volus doll with a scalpel is kinda disturbing. Tali agrees.

It depends on the reasoning behind it. Back when I was a kid, I took apart toys because I wanted to know what was inside. It was innocent.

If I did it today thinking "Hehe, I can't wait to try this on some dogs, cats, and even HUMANS when I get the chance!", yeah, I would be worried.

[Sir DeLoria]

Dextro Milk wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Yeah, but taking apart your Volus doll with a scalpel is kinda disturbing. Tali agrees.

It depends on the reasoning behind it. Back when I was a kid, I took apart toys because I wanted to know what was inside. It was innocent.

If I did it today thinking "Hehe, I can't wait to try this on some dogs, cats, and even HUMANS when I get the chance!", yeah, I would be worried.

But that's exactly the kind of thoughts Xen has.

[Seboist]

Necanor wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Yeah, but taking apart your Volus doll with a scalpel is kinda disturbing. Tali agrees.

It depends on the reasoning behind it. Back when I was a kid, I took apart toys because I wanted to know what was inside. It was innocent.

If I did it today thinking "Hehe, I can't wait to try this on some dogs, cats, and even HUMANS when I get the chance!", yeah, I would be worried.

But that's exactly the kind of thoughts Xen has.

When did your fan fiction become canon?

[Sir DeLoria]

Just an assumption. After all, she seems very fond of dissecting everything unusual. Then again, the Shadow Broker had the same hobby.

[Synergizer]

Wasn't Xen amused by making the Geth dance for her?

[Dextro Milk]

Necanor wrote...

Just an assumption. After all, she seems very fond of dissecting everything unusual.

You mean geth?

I don't know about you, but operating on a geth is no where near as bad as doing so on an organic, for several reasons.

[Sir DeLoria]

Dextro Milk wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Just an assumption. After all, she seems very fond of dissecting everything unusual.

You mean geth?

I don't know about you, but operating on a geth is no where near as bad as doing so on an organic, for several reasons.

I agree, but judging by her character, do you think she'd turn down a chance do dissect, someone unusual like Grunt?

Don't get me wrong, I like Xen, but she is pretty disturbing.

[Dextro Milk]

Necanor wrote...

I agree, but judging by her character, do you think she'd turn down a chance do dissect, someone unusual like Grunt?

Honestly, I don't think she would. Xen operates on geth because she needs to understand how they evolved seperately. She has reasons for wanting to look at Legion, and it makes sense.

Grunt, or other strange organics? Not her thing IMO.