208 réponses à ce sujet

[FDrage]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

Because it's so bad for the company to know which aspects are of interest to you?
I highly doubt that someone from Bioware is going to come over to toiletpaper your house because you're a guy in RL and you had your virtual male character make out with Zevran.
I mean, it's Zevran - it's all good! 

nah :happy:... but then Zevran after DA2 not sure if I should consider "mercy killings" in a DA:O reply ... poor Zevran .

It is more about the principle and for a game, in my oppinion, not necessary.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Seboist wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Could someone provide a link to the paper that states that 47% of all gamers are female?

$20 bucks says that number includes women who play fluff like phone and facebook games as "gamers".

And those are not games because... why?

What is your criteria for something to be called a game?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 juin 2013 - 04:25 .

[Seboist]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Seboist wrote...

$20 bucks says that number includes women who play fluff like phone and facebook games as "gamers".

Because true gamers never play those.

They may or may not, I have an aunt who plays/played farmville and "gamer" is not a word i'd use to describe her.

[Lennard Testarossa]

David7204 wrote...

http://www2.potsdam....controversy.pdf

Hm, that paper also quotes the 40% figure from ESA, but the link provided in the sources does not seem to work anymore.

[Thomas Andresen]

Seboist wrote...

They may or may not, I have an aunt who plays/played farmville and "gamer" is not a word i'd use to describe her.

How very inclusive of you.

[Costin_Razvan]

The 40% figure by the ESA related to the United States ONLY. Let's assume for a minute that it's accurate, even though I believe it's a load of horse****.

Now correct me if I am wrong but video games are available worldwide and you can bet your ass that the ratio isn't the same in every country.

Personally I am the belief that if you take that number down to 20% then it's a hell lot more realistic. If you want some proof to back it up look at ME3 statistics: Only 18% of gamers played female commander Shepard.

[upsettingshorts]

In this thread: People applying "No True Scotsman" arguments to what games and gamers count, without an ounce of irony or self-awareness.

[Huyna]

Can Wikipedia be trusted?

Maybe yes, maybe not, however, here is article, part called "Female gamers as a demographic".

http://en.wikipedia....s_a_demographic

[Rinji the Bearded]

So I gather the argument right now is: what percentage can we widdle this down to so we can ignore it?  Is it 40%?  Is it 20%, but only after we remember Europe?  Oh lord, please think of the Europeans for a second.

No True Scotsman said...
Personally I am the belief that if you take that number down to 20% then it's a hell lot more realistic. If you want some proof to back it up look at ME3 statistics: Only 18% of gamers played female commander Shepard.

Assuming all female players played female Shepard.  Which I can assure you is false.  The telemetry didn't cover gender of actual players.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 juin 2013 - 04:39 .

[Azaron Nightblade]

FDrage wrote...

nah [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]... but then Zevran after DA2 not sure if I should consider "mercy killings" in a DA:O reply ... poor Zevran [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie].

It is more about the principle and for a game, in my oppinion, not necessary.

Fair enough! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Jayne126 wrote...

TommyServo wrote...
Anecdotally, apart from myself, the people I know personally who consider themselves huge fans of Bioware and their games are all women. If you take this to places like tumblr, and even this forum, I would say "serious" female gamers are *very* well represented.

It's a big tent.

So? CoD is, even if I don't like it, a "core" game. FB games do hardly count for that.

You compare apples and oranges.

I think it also highly depends on what games they play, games like Castleville and such aren't all that different from the early RPGs many of us have played - they just got 90% of their combat filtered out and replaced with a sim game
I could easily see some of those FB games inspiring people to give"real" (or as you put it "core") games a shot.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
In this thread: People applying "No True Scotsman" arguments to what games and gamers count, without an ounce of irony or self-awareness.

RinjiRenee wrote...
So I gather the argument right now is: what percentage can we widdle
this down to so we can ignore it?  Is it 40%?  Is it 20%, but only after
we remember Europe?  Oh lord, please think of the Europeans for a
second.

Nonsense. The point is obviously to determine whether or not the 45% figure provided is at all relevant to the kind of game we are discussing here. In this context, excluding people who only play facebook games is completely justified.

Huyna wrote...
Can Wikipedia be trusted?

Maybe yes, maybe not, however, here is article, part called "Female gamers as a demographic".

http://en.wikipedia....s_a_demographic

You should probably look at the source cited for that number.

Modifié par Lennard Testarossa, 20 juin 2013 - 04:36 .

[Realmzmaster]

DA:I will have companions that can be romance by either gender depending on the options taken. I see not problem in that especially when it comes down to resources one of which is the amount of zots being spent.
In a development cycle with an unlimited budget the game would still exclude items that some gamers want. Why? The game eventually must ship or no profit will be made.

If Bioware chooses to include this points in their game and can do it at minimal cost I see that as a good action. The heart icon will be in DA:I. This icon is a red flag for romance. The icon makes it easy to avoid romance.

As far as realism goes if I wanted that I would not be playing a fantasy game. I would play my historical simulations like the battle of the Bulge. I could then play as the Americans to see if I could hold out until reinforcements come (as it occurred in history) or as the Germans seeing if I can achieve a victory and extend the war.
So having every one being bi does not bother me because in any one playthrough I can play my character as straight, bi or homosexual.
It also does not matter how many women are or are not playing the game. The point is that they are playing and the number will not decrease but increase over time. This is what has been happening and no they are not just playing casual games. That notion needs to be sent to the dustbin.

Also for those who do not know the Frag Dolls. There are three teams of avid female gamers. There are American, British and French teams. They play games competitively. They are among the best of the best.

Also define for me what is a casual game? Are the Zelda games casual? What about Suikoden I-V? What about Wizardry? All of which my daughters have played or play?
The times are changing.

[David7204]

All of these figures go back to the ESA, who, as I've pointed out, have every reason to not examine their methods too closely since their data already supports them. They would absolutely want females to make up a high percentage of players.

Modifié par David7204, 20 juin 2013 - 04:39 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Nonsense. The point is obviously to determine whether or not the 45% figure provided is at all relevant to the kind of game we are discussing here. In this context, excluding people who only play facebook games is completely justified.

Oh gosh, we wouldn't want to make that mistake.  God forbid the gaming industry attract women who play facebook games to play other games, too.

[AlanC9]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In this thread: People applying "No True Scotsman" arguments to what games and gamers count, without an ounce of irony or self-awareness.

No self-awareness or sense of irony on BSN? I'm shocked, shocked, to hear that.

[AlanC9]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Nonsense. The point is obviously to determine whether or not the 45% figure provided is at all relevant to the kind of game we are discussing here. In this context, excluding people who only play facebook games is completely justified.

Oh gosh, we wouldn't want to make that mistake.  God forbid the gaming industry attract women who play facebook games to play other games, too.

Can we leave "women" out of this? The relevant question isn't gender, or what platform someone plays on. It's whether they'd conceivably pay $60 for a game under any circumstances.

I'm sure the industry would like to bring the Facebook-only gamers to our side. Can they?

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 juin 2013 - 04:51 .

[Thomas Andresen]

David7204 wrote...

All of these figures go back to the ESA, who, as I've pointed out, have every reason to not examine their methods too closely since their data already supports them. They would absolutely want females to make up a high percentage of players.

The accuracy of the data is irrelevant, because you can't deny the fact that female gamers do exist, and they do play these games. How many they are right now, or was ten years ago, doesn't matter. They exist, and the industry needs to acknowledge them.

[Costin_Razvan]

Or even buying a gaming machine or upgrading their PC/laptop in the first place.

[David7204]

Acknowledge them how?

[Thomas Andresen]

AlanC9 wrote...

Can we leave "women" out of this? The relevant question isn't gender, or what platform someone plays on. It's whether they'd conceivably pay $60 for a game under any circumstances.

. . . what?

[Thomas Andresen]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Or even buying a gaming machine or upgrading their PC/laptop in the first place.

Oh, so only men ever do that. Got it.

David7204 wrote...

Acknowledge them how?

Did you even listen to Gaider's talk?

Modifié par Thomas Andresen, 20 juin 2013 - 04:53 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

AlanC9 wrote...

Can we leave "women" out of this? The relevant question isn't gender, or what platform someone plays on. It's whether they'd conceivably pay $60 for a game under any circumstances.

But the 40%, 45%, 47%, 20% in Europe number that someone pulled out of a hat, these figures represent women.  So why leave them out of discussion?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 juin 2013 - 04:53 .

[upsettingshorts]

David7204 wrote...

Acknowledge them how?

Easy.  Through developers refusing to make the same assumptions you've been throwing around in this thread as though it were the Gospel.

It really is that simple.

Seeing as that's the substance of talks, like the one at GDC, that invoke such hostile denials of the premise itself, developers speaking up about the process of stripping oneself of those assumptions - and the value gained in doing so - will continue to be valuable.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 juin 2013 - 04:55 .

[AlanC9]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Can we leave "women" out of this? The relevant question isn't gender, or what platform someone plays on. It's whether they'd conceivably pay $60 for a game under any circumstances.

. . . what?

What's your question?