208 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

I'm not asking Gaider, am I? I'm asking you.

[Seboist]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Nonsense. The point is obviously to determine whether or not the 45% figure provided is at all relevant to the kind of game we are discussing here. In this context, excluding people who only play facebook games is completely justified.

Oh gosh, we wouldn't want to make that mistake.  God forbid the gaming industry attract women who play facebook games to play other games, too.

Can't wait until I can play Blazblue, Ys and Company of Heroes  with them.

[Herr Uhl]

I enjoyed the talk.

[Thomas Andresen]

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

[quote]Thomas Andresen wrote...

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

Can we leave "women" out of this? The relevant question isn't gender, or what platform someone plays on. It's whether they'd conceivably pay $60 for a game under any circumstances.
[/quote]
. . . what?[/quote]

What's your question?[/quote]
[quote]Thomas Andresen wrote...

[quote]Costin_Razvan wrote...

Or even buying a gaming machine or upgrading their PC/laptop in the first place.[/quote]
Oh, so only men ever do that. Got it.

[David7204]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Acknowledge them how?

Easy.  Through developers refusing to make the same assumptions you've been throwing around in this thread as though it were the Gospel.

It really is that simple.

Any figure about the percentage of women in gaming is going to be an assumption. The difference is, my assumptions that the official figures are too high have solid reasoning behind them. Do yours?

[JamieCOTC]

What I got out of that lecture was that women, gays and other minorities do not need to be catered to, but neither should they be ignored. And that's real simple. Don't make every character a straight white dude. It's already being done and the problem seems to stem from all the fuss over they fact that it's being done. As far as box covers, put straight white due in the foreground and Elizabeth (or whoever) in the background. I don't understand the difficultly in that. Movies have done it for nearly a 100 years.

[AlanC9]

RinjiRenee wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Can we leave "women" out of this? The relevant question isn't gender, or what platform someone plays on. It's whether they'd conceivably pay $60 for a game under any circumstances.

But the 40%, 45%, 47%, 20% in Europe number that someone pulled out of a hat, these figures represent women.  So why leave them out of discussion?

Depends on what that number measures. Woukd they pay?Then they count.

[AresKeith]

Seboist wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Nonsense. The point is obviously to determine whether or not the 45% figure provided is at all relevant to the kind of game we are discussing here. In this context, excluding people who only play facebook games is completely justified.

Oh gosh, we wouldn't want to make that mistake.  God forbid the gaming industry attract women who play facebook games to play other games, too.

Can't wait until I can play Blazblue, Ys and Company of Heroes  with them.

Plus the heroism 

[Thomas Andresen]

AlanC9 wrote...

Depends on what that number measures. Woukd they pay?Then they count.

Only men pay for games, is that it?

[AlanC9]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Or even buying a gaming machine or upgrading their PC/laptop in the first place.

Oh, so only men ever do that. Got it.

What percentage do?

[syllogi]

David7204 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Acknowledge them how?

Easy.  Through developers refusing to make the same assumptions you've been throwing around in this thread as though it were the Gospel.

It really is that simple.

Any figure about the percentage of women in gaming is going to be an assumption. The difference is, my assumptions that the official figures are too high have solid reasoning behind them. Do yours?

You claimed that women lie about being gamers in order to get attention from men.  What about that statement is "solid"?

[David7204]

My experience has been that males pay for games to a far, far greater extent than females.

[Rinji the Bearded]

David7204 wrote...

Any figure about the percentage of women in gaming is going to be an assumption. The difference is, my assumptions that the official figures are too high have solid reasoning behind them. Do yours?

Ah, yes, a "gamer" with opinions sitting at his computer has more solid reasoning and better assumptions than surveys.  Gotcha.

David7204 wrote...
My experience has been that males pay for games to a far, far greater extent than females.

Your experience being...?  Going down to the Gamestop and not seeing any women around...?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 juin 2013 - 05:01 .

[AlanC9]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Depends on what that number measures. Woukd they pay?Then they count.

Only men pay for games, is that it?

I didn't say any such thing.

[Herr Uhl]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Depends on what that number measures. Woukd they pay?Then they count.

Only men pay for games, is that it?

Think it is more to get someone that is used to playing through microtransactions to pay for a full game up front. If the assumption of that women are a larger part of the social gaming market.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Thomas Andresen wrote...
Only men pay for games, is that it?

More straw men, please.

[David7204]

syllogi wrote...

You claimed that women lie about being gamers in order to get attention from men.  What about that statement is "solid"?

That is a ridiculous misinterpretation.

No. What I claimed was that women fudge their perceptions of themselves on likely anonymous surveys. Just like a person might claim they exercise a few more hours per week than they actually do on a survey. Or spend a few hours less on the internet or watching TV.

Modifié par David7204, 20 juin 2013 - 05:02 .

[Thomas Andresen]

David7204 wrote...

My experience has been that males pay for games to a far, far greater extent than females.

Funny how it's opposite in my experience.

[Rinji the Bearded]

David7204 wrote...

syllogi wrote...

You claimed that women lie about being gamers in order to get attention from men.  What about that statement is "solid"?

That is a ridiculous misinterpretation.

No. What I claimed was that women fudge their perceptions of themselves on likely anonymous surveys. Just like a person might claim they exercise a few more hours per week than they actually do on a survey.

And men don't obviously. 

[upsettingshorts]

David7204 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Acknowledge them how?

Easy.  Through developers refusing to make the same assumptions you've been throwing around in this thread as though it were the Gospel.

It really is that simple.

Any figure about the percentage of women in gaming is going to be an assumption. The difference is, my assumptions that the official figures are too high have solid reasoning behind them. Do yours?

The error in your assumptions lies not with the percentage, but in the implications of it.  Namely, are games - and gamers - actively contributing to keeping that number at an artificially low point.  Whether that point is 20 or 40 is irrelevant if it ought to be higher. 

If you concede that it is, then Gaider's GDC talk and those like it are relevant whether you welcome the substance of the changes they call for or not.  Your disagreement would result from how such changes impact you personally, and not whether they are addressing an observable trend.  Those are different complaints.

If you deny that it is, then I maintain my stance of questioning the basis of your assumptions.

Finally, if you maintain that the percentage of female gamers having an artificial ceiling is a good thing, explain why those women who you wish to exclude ought to be excluded.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 juin 2013 - 05:04 .

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

My experience has been that males pay for games to a far, far greater extent than females.

Yeah, tell that to the mothers and wives who do all the holiday gift shopping every year. 

[Enigmatick]

SO ABOUT THAT DRAGON AGE INQUISITION GUYS

Seriously are you people afraid to post things in the off topic section?

Modifié par Enigmatick, 20 juin 2013 - 05:05 .

[David7204]

RinjiRenee wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That is a ridiculous misinterpretation.

No. What I claimed was that women fudge their perceptions of themselves on likely anonymous surveys. Just like a person might claim they exercise a few more hours per week than they actually do on a survey.

And men don't obviously. 

Of course they do. You're proving my point. Both women and men do it, except that generally, men are going to downplay their experiences with video games while women will do the opposite.

[Lennard Testarossa]

RinjiRenee wrote...
Ah, yes, a "gamer" with opinions sitting at his computer has more solid reasoning and better assumptions than surveys. Gotcha.

His opinion is just about as valid as that survey. A survey performed by an organization with a very high potential bias that does not provide any kind of detail about the methodology used is utterly useless as a source.

[David7204]

dreamgazer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

My experience has been that males pay for games to a far, far greater extent than females.

Yeah, tell that to the mothers and wives who do all the holiday gift shopping every year. 

Let me rephrase. My experience has been that males play games that someone has spent money on to a far, far greater extent than females.