310 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
And using one protagonist is just a "vehicle" because every story needs a hero in which to explore and interact with the story or in this case "the World of the Dragon Age".  For it is called Dragon "Age" and not Dragon "Land".

Yes, every story needs a character though which to explore and interact with the world.  But there is no reason at all why each story within Dragon Age ought to have the same protagonist. 

[In Exile]

Cigne wrote...

Me too. I've four books on my shelf, that I purchased as a result of following various reoccuring arguments about 'how things really were in the Middle Ages'. Well presented arguments, but contradictory.

I really miss the gameplay arguments. Now everything is either about how DA2 was bad, whitewashing the rage over DA:O vs. BG2 (I remember all the origins killing roleplay rants), or endless debates about VO vs. silent (though these have now mostly gone away).
 

Or maybe it's simply that there are a whole lotta more people here, now. 

Well, lots of the regulars also went away.

Sooo.... I suppose my takeaway is that Bioware had PR issues long before EA, right?

Bioware's market was always ridiculous. To sell silent in DA:O, they basically went 100% back on everything they marketed ME1 as. And then they locked themselves into a corner.

ME was meant to be more immersive in terms of RP, with the idea being that the wheel and paraphrase represent how we really talk - vague idea of what we say, say it as we go, have it come out not quite identically. 

[Khayness]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Part of the reason for officially renaming the game to Dragon Age Inquisition is because "3"
 makes people think that HAVE to play DA 1 & DA2 before they can play DA3. This is not true as both fans who have played Dragon Age Origins & Dragon Age II AND new fans who have not played a Dragon Age game period can play and enjoy Dragon Age Inquisition.

I don't get it, the game industry's MO is all about making every game accessible to new players. You even marketed ME3 as a great entry point to the series.

The title usually can't reflect the quality of the product, so I'm baffled. Atleast you got some publicity, so it's a win I guess.

[Jerrybnsn]

Filament wrote...

And using one protagonist is just a "vehicle" because every story needs a hero in which to explore and interact with the story or in this case "the World of the Dragon Age".  For it is called Dragon "Age" and not Dragon "Land".

With no justification for making that leap whatsoever. If it's what you want, fine, but don't pretend a series with an overarching story(/stories) needs one protagonist. Resident Evil, Metal Gear, etc say otherwise.

I'm just giving examples as to why people would have thought that the Dragon Age series would use one protagonists...and that it could have an overarching story connecting the entire series together (cough*Oldgodsdarkspawn*cough), which I still believe it does.

As a fan of Dragon Age:Origins, I never hung out on this forum and heard that the series wouldn't have a single protagonist.  Heck, I never new they were going to make anymore Dragon Age games until Awakenings came out,....and I was totally blown away with importing my Warden.  And then I read about Bioware's history making games, and how they import characters to other games...then I went out and bought Mass Effect and got all into that series.  Was I stupid as you keep saying for expecting DA to follow suite? Just look at your own forum here way back before DA2 was announced.  Find me one post that explains that the Warden would not be imported to DA2, or that there was not going to be an overarching story.  I look at all those posts leading up to DA2's announcement, and that's all I read. 

It seems that I was not part of a "few" misquided people that you keep saying I was.  I had a lot of company.  A lot.

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
As a fan of Dragon Age:Origins, I never hung out on this forum and heard that the series wouldn't have a single protagonist.  Heck, I never new they were going to make anymore Dragon Age games until Awakenings came out,....and I was totally blown away with importing my Warden.  

I wasn't on the forum at the time, but I recall speaking to DG after the fact and he mentioned that originally, DA:A was just going to be an Orlesian Warden story. I don't recall what led them to importing your Warden, but that's part of the reason why the entire feel of the game is different as the PC. 

It seems that I was not part of a "few" misquided people that you keep saying I was.  I had a lot of company.  A lot.

I think we all thought Bioware was going to go silent PC/Warden for the series, if they were going to follow-up. But when DA2 was announced, Bioware was clear that each game has a new protagonist. So I'm not getting your surprise now that DAI has no Warden. 

[Cigne]

In Exile wrote...

I really miss the gameplay arguments. Now everything is either about how DA2 was bad, whitewashing the rage over DA:O vs. BG2 (I remember all the origins killing roleplay rants), or endless debates about VO vs. silent (though these have now mostly gone away).
 

Yeah--'You're Locking us into Only Six Preset Backgrounds! Spiritual Successor to BG my ***!'

Or maybe it's simply that there are a whole lotta more people here, now. 

Well, lots of the regulars also went away.

I sometimes wonder; the BSN allows for subforums--it may be that some of the old regulars with the same tastes/preferences spend most (if not all) of thier posting time in private forums.

I do wonder what Grobnir's Ghost thought of DAO, though.

Bioware's market was always ridiculous. To sell silent in DA:O, they basically went 100% back on everything they marketed ME1 as. And then they locked themselves into a corner.

ME was meant to be more immersive in terms of RP, with the idea being that the wheel and paraphrase represent how we really talk - vague idea of what we say, say it as we go, have it come out not quite identically. 

Yeah. But iirc, DA was in development before ME, and ME's dialogue wheel was well recieved.

I'm sometimes surprised at how many of the features ME used are now considered to be necessary for Bioware to include in all their games.

Like a single protagonist.
(see? on topic)

[Silfren]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Filament wrote...

And using one protagonist is just a "vehicle" because every story needs a hero in which to explore and interact with the story or in this case "the World of the Dragon Age".  For it is called Dragon "Age" and not Dragon "Land".

With no justification for making that leap whatsoever. If it's what you want, fine, but don't pretend a series with an overarching story(/stories) needs one protagonist. Resident Evil, Metal Gear, etc say otherwise.

I'm just giving examples as to why people would have thought that the Dragon Age series would use one protagonists...and that it could have an overarching story connecting the entire series together (cough*Oldgodsdarkspawn*cough), which I still believe it does.

No, you're whining about why YOU think DA SHOULD have a single protagonist.  

As a fan of Dragon Age:Origins, I never hung out on this forum and heard that the series wouldn't have a single protagonist.  Heck, I never new they were going to make anymore Dragon Age games until Awakenings came out,....and I was totally blown away with importing my Warden.  And then I read about Bioware's history making games, and how they import characters to other games...then I went out and bought Mass Effect and got all into that series.  Was I stupid as you keep saying for expecting DA to follow suite? Just look at your own forum here way back before DA2 was announced.  Find me one post that explains that the Warden would not be imported to DA2, or that there was not going to be an overarching story.  I look at all those posts leading up to DA2's announcement, and that's all I read.

Weren't you insisting, not too many posts back, that Bioware changed direction just as DA2 was released, and that prior to that point they had said they were doing things differently...assertions that would have had to mean that you hung out on these boards or at least made a point of keeping track of DA-related news from Bioware quite a bit for a good while prior to the announcement of DA2?  I didn't believe you to begin with, since your claims directly contradicted what I heard and read from my own time on the forums, but it's interesting to see you contradicting your own words, here.

Modifié par Silfren, 23 juin 2013 - 07:48 .

[addiction21]

Old BIoWare boards. Muffin Swords nuff said

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

It seems that I was not part of a "few" misquided people that you keep saying I was.  I had a lot of company.  A lot.

I think we all thought Bioware was going to go silent PC/Warden for the series, if they were going to follow-up. But when DA2 was announced, Bioware was clear that each game has a new protagonist. So I'm not getting your surprise now that DAI has no Warden. 

How about using my entire quote to put it into proper context?

Jerrybnsn wrote...
 Just look at your own forum here way back before DA2 was announced.  Find me one post that explains that the Warden would not be imported to DA2, or that there was not going to be an overarching story.  I look at all those posts leading up to DA2's announcement, and that's all I read.....

It seems that I was not part of a "few" misquided people that you keep saying I was.  I had a lot of company.  A lot.

I didn't know about this site until all of the backlash that I was reading about when DA2 was released.  I was reading articles online about how the Bioware's fans were ranting against DA2.  I knew the summer before when DA2 was announced that there was going to be a new protagonist, and decided to wait for the reviews to decide whether I was going to buy it new, rent it, or skip it completely.  But it was in that first couple of months when DA2 was released that I began coming to this forum.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 23 juin 2013 - 08:44 .

[addiction21]

Jerrybnsn wrote...


How about using my entire quote to put it into proper context?

Jerrybnsn wrote...
 Just look at your own forum here way back before DA2 was announced.  Find me one post that explains that the Warden would not be imported to DA2, or that there was not going to be an overarching story.  I look at all those posts leading up to DA2's announcement, and that's all I read.....

How about the official website for DA2?

http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/home/

Show me anything about the warden being a import or anything else.

[Jerrybnsn]

Silfren wrote...



No, you're whining about why YOU think DA SHOULD have a single protagonist.  

Saying that I would love to have my Warden imported and playable in future Dragon Age games is "whining"?

  Weren't you insisting, not too many posts back, that Bioware changed direction just as DA2 was released, and that prior to that point they had said they were doing things differently...assertions that would have had to mean that you hung out on these boards or at least made a point of keeping track of DA-related news from Bioware quite a bit for a good while prior to the announcement of DA2?  I didn't believe you to begin with, since your claims directly contradicted what I heard and read from my own time on the forums, but it's interesting to see you contradicting your own words, here.

Actually, that "assertion" was from Brent Knowles blog of 2011 which was posted many, many times on this forum while I was here.  If you read it you would see that he was reminicing back to early 2009 when the first phase of the developement process on DA2 was beginning and he disagreed with the direction of creating a fixed protagonist for the sequel.  No, I was only here during the time period when Stanley Woo ruled over this forum with an iron fist.  In fact, I don't think he would have let this post go more than two pages long.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 23 juin 2013 - 09:39 .

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
 Just look at your own forum here way back before DA2 was announced.  Find me one post that explains that the Warden would not be imported to DA2

You mean, before DA2 was announced by Bioware as a thing that existed? 

, or that there was not going to be an overarching story.

Again, would this be before Bioware announced DA2 would exist?

 I look at all those posts leading up to DA2's announcement, and that's all I read.....

You mean, fan speculation?

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Saying that I would love to have my Warden imported and playable in future Dragon Age games is "whining"?

Yes. 

Actually, that "assertion" was from Brent Knowles blog of 2011 which was posted many, many times on this forum while I was here.  If you read it you would see that he was reminicing back to early 2009 when the first phase of the developement process on DA2 was beginning and he disagreed with the direction of creating a fixed protagonist for the new series.  No, I was only here during the time period when Stanley Woo ruled over this forum with an iron fist.  In fact, I don't think he would have let this post go more than two pages long.

Taking a shot at Stan is uncalled for. 

Modifié par In Exile, 23 juin 2013 - 09:34 .

[Jerrybnsn]

addiction21 wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...


How about using my entire quote to put it into proper context?

Jerrybnsn wrote...
 Just look at your own forum here way back before DA2 was announced.  Find me one post that explains that the Warden would not be imported to DA2, or that there was not going to be an overarching story. 

How about the official website for DA2?

http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/home/

Show me anything about the warden being a import or anything else.

The discussion is about how stupid could people be thinking that DA2 would have imported characters or an overarching story, when it was said from the very beginning when Origins was in production that each game would be stand alone with an all new protagonist.

This is in relation to the original post commenting on Bioware dropping the "3" from Dragon Age because they did not want people to think that it would be a direct sequel to 1 or 2.  Which, is being suggested as a major reason as to why DA2 wasn't received very well by the Dragon Age fans.

My position is that I would like/want the next Dragon Age game to be a direct sequel to Origins and not do with what they did in DA2 last time.  And yes, when pressed, I would love to have my Warden imported and playable in future dragon age games.  Am I expecting it?  No.  I'm not even expecting Dragon Age to allow race selection again in its future games, but I would love it if they went back to that too.

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
My position is that I would like/want the next Dragon Age game to be a direct sequel to Origins and not do with what they did in DA2 last time.  

What does this tossed salad of words even mean? What's a "direct" sequel? Do you want a game where you control Bodhan searching for Sandal in the wreckage of Denerim? 

And yes, when pressed, I would love to have my Warden imported and playable in future dragon age games.  Am I expecting it?  No.  I'm not even expecting Dragon Age to allow race selection again in its future games, but I would love it if they went back to that too.

You keep saying that, and yet somehow 95% of your posts are about how you were misled re: the Warden. 

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

You mean, fan speculation?

Yes.  Becaue the discussion has turned to a "few misguided people" expecting  DA2 to be a sequel to the first Dragon Age game when it was said from the beginning of the development of Origins that the Dragon Age series would be without importing characters or having an overarching storyline.

My whole point was that leading up to DA2, there was more than just a few that talked about importing their wardens, carrying on their relationships and progressing through an overarching storyline.

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Yes.  Becaue the discussion has turned to a "few misguided people" expecting  DA2 to be a sequel to the first Dragon Age game when it was said from the beginning of the development of Origins that the Dragon Age series would be without importing characters or having an overarching storyline.

Look, I've been here forever and there was no talk of a dragon age "series". When we got the name origins we all suspected Bioware planned sequels, but they were not talking about any of those plans. There was no talk of a follow-up either way, and certainly no talk of multiple protagonists until DA2 was announced. Becuse there was no talk of a sequel before DA2 was announced. 

Some fans expected the Warden to be a mute Shepard, but that has nothing to do with what representation Bioware made.

My whole point was that leading up to DA2, there was more than just a few that talked about importing their wardens, carrying on their relationships and progressing through an overarching storyline.

There was talk that the next dragon age game would have a fixed protagonist as the OGB and that Bioware was going to impose a fixed canon too, because it was all pure speculation. DA:A led people to think that the Warden would come back, but that still wasn't Bioware saying anything.

The second DA2 was announced, Bioware was explicit about their direction for the series. 

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

And yes, when pressed, I would love to have my Warden imported and playable in future dragon age games.  Am I expecting it?  No.  I'm not even expecting Dragon Age to allow race selection again in its future games, but I would love it if they went back to that too.

You keep saying that, and yet somehow 95% of your posts are about how you were misled re: the Warden. 

Disappointed, not misled.  I've suggested (through a blog by the Lead Director of Origins) that having a fixed protagonist with a VO actor ended any chance of allowing us to import our Wardens or creat our own characters with different races; something that I would like to see again. 

I'm just glad I'm not being accussed of being upset about them dropping the "3" from the Dragon Age title anymore, when I could care less.  It was the statement that they didn't want 3 to be considered a sequel to 1 or 2 that prompted me to post my disappointment with that.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 23 juin 2013 - 10:15 .

[Aolbain]

Are we still complaining about how the wardens and the blight are the "true" story? If we do, can we at least do it Na-z-iris1 style? Its more fun that way.

Edited because the n-word (not that, the other one) is aperently censored.

Modifié par Aolbain, 23 juin 2013 - 10:36 .

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Disappointed, not misled.  I've suggested (through a blog by the Lead Director of Origins) that having a fixed protagonist with a VO actor ended any chance of allowing us to import our Wardens or creat our own characters with different races; something that I would like to see again.  

Bioware could add VO for the Warden. And SW:TOR shows that they can do multiple races for VO. It might not be on the terms that you want, but none of these features mean that the Warden character isn't return.

Hell, Bioware could flop, EA could send off the IP elsewhere, and we could have a DA:Dungeon Crawl, that's an ARPG with a M!Cousland who romanced Leliana fixed protagonist. 

None of these features would actually prevent a Warden from return. 

I'm just glad I'm not being accussed of being upset about them dropping the "3" from the Dragon Age title, when I could care less.  It was the statement that they didn't want 3 to be considered a sequel to 1 or 2 that prompted me to post my disappointment.

Given what ME came out as, I'm hopeful Bioware never tries a single protagonist across games ever again. 

[Bleachrude]

This thread just proves to me that there's a very good reason why marketing budgets are so large (the wticher 3 has actually spent more on marketing/advertising than on the actual game).

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

Given what ME came out as, I'm hopeful Bioware never tries a single protagonist across games ever again. 

But that was a fun game.  If it just wasn't for that ending....well, and the beginning because I had no idea why Shepard was in military prison or what happened to his crew because I didn't play that DLC Arrival (I think it was called).  But, I think that was the fault of the dlc practice that ruined what up to that point was the best video game series I've ever played.

[Silfren]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Silfren wrote...



No, you're whining about why YOU think DA SHOULD have a single protagonist.  

Saying that I would love to have my Warden imported and playable in future Dragon Age games is "whining"?]

It wouldn't be if that's actually what you were doing. But what you're doing is going on and on and on and on about it despite the fact that Bioware clearly said from the get-go that that's not the game you were going to get.