310 réponses à ce sujet

[bEVEsthda]

Cigne wrote...

You've been here much longer than I; NWN
was first Bioware game. I vaguely remember a trailer for NWN on my BG2
disc stating that you could import characters from BG2. That obviously
changed.

I do recall Gaider stating that the OC was kinda/sorta
last minute; that NWN was all about the toolkit, and they realized late
that they needed to included a 'mod' to show what the toolkit was
capaple of (this is my interpretation of his comments).

Sooo.... I suppose my takeaway is that Bioware had PR issues long before EA, right?

Not the way I saw it. I think their PR was brilliant in those days. I'm aware it must have been painful for the developers then too. But I think their experience is worse now. There's less sensible dialogue, if you can call it that. There's that famous "polarizing", a wellknown handful of people with terribly much time on their hands, picking fights with anybody who criticizes DA2. EA moderators then permabanning the angered critics, but never.....   So there's so much bitterness now.

 The **** storm is also much more enduring now. It has its other reasons too I suppose. Back then they could point to the toolkit and DM tool, and everybody thought those were the greatest thing. Now, it's gone the other way, with more hitting the fan, i.e. ME3.

There's also a change in how Bioware relates to the forums. I would assume that has, at least some, to do with that they're now part of a big corp, with all that entails of responsibility for PR, liability etc. Another part is probably that the important persons are older, and don't work 18h/7d any longer. Thus they don't have the same time or energy for the boards.
But back then, they just communicated a lot, and, to me at least, it seemed it kept things more cool. And then they released that Shadows of Undrentide, which I do believe I have two copies of, but still haven't played (Morrowind came in between). And then everything was good again.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 24 juin 2013 - 08:53 .

[Cigne]

Polarizing... I see those few who see no fault in DA2 balanced by those few who see absolutely no value in the game.

Regarding how Bioware relates to the forums, I think your assumptions are valid, but I'd add that the fanbase is now larger and more diverse; with contradictory wants and expectations. I can understand the devs reluctance to interact with us as much as in the past; but I do expect that to change when we get closer to launch.

[Jerrybnsn]

Liskat wrote...

In epic fantasy works like Martin and other writers you do find different subplots told from the perspective of different people. Some of those subplots tie together with the mainplot and some don't. I think DA might be better compared to the books about the Malazan empire (Malazan Book of the Fallen or something?). In that series you go to different places and have different main characters in each book (some characters do show up across different books I think). There is a macrolevel storyline going on in the background, which is more similar to DA. I might remember some of this wrong, though, it must be 7-8 years since I read any of the Malazan books (I read 3 or 4 of them).

The Malazan Empire looks like a very interesting series.  I'll have to check with my library to see if they have it.  I noticed that they don't call the collection of books as a "saga" at all but a series. "Each of the first five novels is relatively self-contained, in that it resolves its respective primary conflict; but many underlying characters and events are interwoven throughout the works of the series, binding it together."

Like Xanth.  Xanth is a series of books that revolve around in a country with a couple of generations that are woven together. Yes, there is no Xanth Saga, but only refered to as a series.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 24 juin 2013 - 10:06 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Sutekh wrote...

As for an overarching story, it seems to me you're confusing "story" and "plotline". The overarching story is Thedas during the Dragon Age, with events that are linked, and others that aren't, just like real world history. The plotlines are Blight, Kirkwall and whatever DA:I will be.


By your very narrow definition of "saga", works such as Dune, the Arthurian err... Saga, ASoIaF or Star Wars wouldn't qualify, since the main characters and plotlines aren't the same.

You say that I'm using saga narrowly, but it's the only definition of what it is. Saga means "speak of" and is translated as story.  Bards would anounce the "story" as 'Gather around while I speak of Ragnar Lothbrok and his sons'.  I don't see why I'm speaking of a plotline when we can have a bard say 'Gather around while I speak of The Dragon Age'.  So if Bioware is claiming Dragon Age as a Saga, as they did on the box of DA2, they are saying that Dragon Age is actually all of one large story, the "epic saga".

Movies use saga for trilogies like Star Wars.  And episode VII is going to start filming in a year.  So there is all of one large story told in seven episodes.  Just like chapters in a book.  The Godfather three movies are considered a saga.  Someone used The Elder Scrolls "Saga", but I think the correct term would be The Elder Scrolls Sagas, since each game has its own self contained story to tell.  That was the example given with the Malazan Series, which the five novels is relatively self-contained, in that it resolves its respective primary conflict; but many underlying characters and events are interwoven throughout the works of the series, binding it together.  And I brought up the Xanth series.  Together they are not a "saga".

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 24 juin 2013 - 10:28 .

[Airdeen]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Liskat wrote...

In epic fantasy works like Martin and other writers you do find different subplots told from the perspective of different people. Some of those subplots tie together with the mainplot and some don't. I think DA might be better compared to the books about the Malazan empire (Malazan Book of the Fallen or something?). In that series you go to different places and have different main characters in each book (some characters do show up across different books I think). There is a macrolevel storyline going on in the background, which is more similar to DA. I might remember some of this wrong, though, it must be 7-8 years since I read any of the Malazan books (I read 3 or 4 of them).

The Malazan Empire looks like a very interesting series.  I'll have to check with my library to see if they have it.  I noticed that they don't call the collection of books as a "saga" at all but a series. "Each of the first five novels is relatively self-contained, in that it resolves its respective primary conflict; but many underlying characters and events are interwoven throughout the works of the series, binding it together."

Like Xanth.  Xanth is a series of books that revolve around in a country with a couple of generations that are woven together. Yes, there is no Xanth Saga, but only refered to as a series.

I can't remember seeing the Wheel of Time referred to as a saga, and I would argue that series can easily be described as the saga about the Dragon Reborn. I also would argue that you could easily tell a saga about the Warden and Hawke, just like the old Norse sagas told sagas about ancient heroes.

You're arguing very small points, in the case of DA and saga it's pretty much on the use of the singular or plural form of the word saga to describe a series of games. It's entirelly possible it hasn't occured to them that it might be more "correct" to refer to the game series as a whole as the Dragon Age sagas and to each individual game as a saga. Maybe they use saga intentionally about the whole series, it is entirelly possible than we'll be able to see the series as a whole as one continuous saga when we're at the end.

Remember that we've only got two games so far (and a few books and comics and such, but I'm sticking to the games here). So after a few more games it is possible it will make more sense to talk about the Saga of the Dragon Age.

I brought up Malazan Empire because they deal with separate parts of the whole story in each book, other than that I'm not sure how many similarities you can draw between the different works of fiction (except the obvious similarities between everything in the fantasy genre).

[Airdeen]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

As for an overarching story, it seems to me you're confusing "story" and "plotline". The overarching story is Thedas during the Dragon Age, with events that are linked, and others that aren't, just like real world history. The plotlines are Blight, Kirkwall and whatever DA:I will be.


By your very narrow definition of "saga", works such as Dune, the Arthurian err... Saga, ASoIaF or Star Wars wouldn't qualify, since the main characters and plotlines aren't the same.

You say that I'm using saga narrowly, but it's the only definition of what it is. Saga means "speak of" and is translated as story.  Bards would anounce the "story" as 'Gather around while I speak of Ragnar Lothbrok and his sons'.  I don't see why I'm speaking of a plotline when we can have a bard say 'Gather around while I speak of The Dragon Age'.  So if Bioware is claiming Dragon Age as a Saga, as they did on the box of DA2, they are saying that Dragon Age is actually all of one large story, the "epic saga".

Movies use saga for trilogies like Star Wars.  And episode VII is going to start filming in a year.  So there is all of one large story told in seven episodes.  Just like chapters in a book.  The Godfather three movies are considered a saga.  Someone used The Elder Scrolls "Saga", but I think the correct term would be The Elder Scrolls Sagas, since each game has its own self contained story to tell.  That was the example given with the Malazan Series, which the five novels is relatively self-contained, in that it resolves its respective primary conflict; but many underlying characters and events are interwoven throughout the works of the series, binding it together.  And I brought up the Xanth series.  Together they are not a "saga".

You are correct about the original meaning and usage of the word. However, how words are used change over time and also in different places. Modern use of the word saga in Scandinavia is not restricted to a bard telling a story about someone. It modern use it refers to an epic work of fiction, it is very commonly used on pretty much anything in the epic fantasy genre. When we use it about the old norse sagas the word has a slightly different meaning, as it is then a bardic tale. So you have to differentiate between the norse sagas and modern use of the word saga in fantasy fiction. The same word is used differently.

This is like the discussion between me and my fiance where I talk about different types of tea (including fruit and green tea) and he refuses to acknowledge that anything other than black tea can be called tea...

Many words have changed meaning over time. The word gay generally refers to homosexual people today, but the word actually means happy, carefree, etc. So in most classical works of literature, if you see a person described as gay it means the person is happy/carefree. If you say someone is gay now most people will take it to mean they're homosexual.

I could probably write a long list of words if I could be bothered.

[Silfren]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

When you say direct sequel to Origins what do you mean exactly? Do you want a game set in Ferelden, a game where you are a warden fighting against another blight, what does a direct sequel mean to you?

A game that would continue the story that was laid down from Origins mostly picking up dangling plot threads.  Using more of the older characters that I've built up realtionships from Origins.  Something that would expand on learning and searching for  the nature of the Darkspawn and the Archdemons (there's two left).  What is going on with Flemeth, Morrigan, Sandal and those strange ancient mages?

What I'm afraid of is that DAI will be a spin-off, set in the same universe but with unrelated plots and characters, as to what DA2 was to Origins.

But, ONCE AGAIN, you have known all along that DA3 was going to be about the Mage/Templar war. That was obvious even before we got any official word from Bioware.  Anyone who played DA2 and followed these forums at all was able to figure that out.

[ComfortablyNumb]

drake heath wrote...

snip.

OT - your avatar made me feel so melancholic.. But in a good way 

[garrusfan1]

I want some decisions to carry over but DA games are more about the story of thedas

[Sen4lifE]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Part of the reason for officially renaming the game to Dragon Age Inquisition is because "3"
 makes people think that HAVE to play DA 1 & DA2 before they can play DA3. This is not true as both fans who have played Dragon Age Origins & Dragon Age II AND new fans who have not played a Dragon Age game period can play and enjoy Dragon Age Inquisition.

The Mass Effect trilogy was always designed to be the story of Commander Shepard. Dragon Age has always been the story of the world of Dragon Age rather than one character within that world. In Origins you played the warden, in II you played Hawke, now in Inquisition you have to deal with the Inquisition. DAI (which I use instead of typing out Inquisition) is a new chapter in the world, so we changed the name to reflect this.

I think that part of the reason some fans disliked DAII (along with reusing areas, changes to combat and yadda yadda) was that we didn't do a good enough job of explaining the change in story. Some people played DAII expecting it to be Dragon Age Origins Part 2 and the continuation of their Warden character, which is wasn't intended to be. We want to be very clear that Dragon Age Inquisition is a new chapter in the world of Dragon Age, so we dropped the 3 as we felt it tied the game too closely to the first two games.

Not that Dragon Age Inquisition will be 100% completely new. As you saw in the trailer, Morrigan, Varric & Cassandra play a role in the game. It is possible that other characters, places, things, stories, etc do as well. You'll learn more about that as we reveal more about DAI as we move towards launch next year.

So, any plans to rename Dragon Age II then?  It's not like retroactively changing a title has never been done before.  Maybe "Dragon Age: The Champion", since that is the huge theme there.

Liskat wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

As for an overarching story, it seems to me you're confusing "story" and "plotline". The overarching story is Thedas during the Dragon Age, with events that are linked, and others that aren't, just like real world history. The plotlines are Blight, Kirkwall and whatever DA:I will be.


By your very narrow definition of "saga", works such as Dune, the Arthurian err... Saga, ASoIaF or Star Wars wouldn't qualify, since the main characters and plotlines aren't the same.

You say that I'm using saga narrowly, but it's the only definition of what it is. Saga means "speak of" and is translated as story.  Bards would anounce the "story" as 'Gather around while I speak of Ragnar Lothbrok and his sons'.  I don't see why I'm speaking of a plotline when we can have a bard say 'Gather around while I speak ofThe Dragon Age'.  So if Bioware is claiming Dragon Age as a Saga, as they did on the box of DA2, they are saying that Dragon Age is actually all of one large story, the "epic saga". 

Movies use saga for trilogies like Star Wars.  And episode VII is going to start filming in a year.  So there is all of one large story told in seven episodes.  Just like chapters in a book.  The Godfather three movies are considered a saga.  Someone used The Elder Scrolls "Saga", but I think the correct term would be The Elder Scrolls Sagas, since each game has its own self contained story to tell.  That was the example given with the Malazan Series, which the five novels is relatively self-contained, in that it resolves its respective primary conflict; but many underlying characters and events are interwoven throughout the works of the series, binding it together.  And I brought up the Xanth series.  Together they are not a "saga".

You are correct about the original meaning and usage of the word. However, how words are used change over time and also in different places. Modern use of the word saga in Scandinavia is not restricted to a bard telling a story about someone. It modern use it refers to an epic work of fiction, it is very commonly used on pretty much anything in the epic fantasy genre. When we use it about the old norse sagas the word has a slightly different meaning, as it is then a bardic tale. So you have to differentiate between the norse sagas and modern use of the word saga in fantasy fiction. The same word is used differently. 

This is like the discussion between me and my fiance where I talk about different types of tea (including fruit and green tea) and he refuses to acknowledge that anything other than black tea can be called tea... 

Many words have changed meaning over time. The word gay generally refers to homosexual people today, but the word actually means happy, carefree, etc. So in most classical works of literature, if you see a person described as gay it means the person is happy/carefree. If you say someone is gay now most people will take it to mean they're homosexual. 

I could probably write a long list of words if I could be bothered. 

It's important to note that a saga specifically takes place over a family of characters, not just it being "one large story."  Dragon Age II isn't a saga, because the main characters are typically not related to eachother (with the exception being if you made a Human Mage in Origins, but since the canon background isn't definite and BioWare seems to push toward the Warden being a Cousland...) and companion/quest characters typically only cameo in other games.  Being part of the same universe does not make it a saga.

Continuing off your Star Wars example, the movies (Episode 1-6) are a saga.  Star Wars as a whole (including the Expanded Universe), is not a saga and further movie releases may haven othing to do with the Skywalker family and thus are not part of the saga.  Star Wars is not a saga, Star Wars includes the Skywalker saga.

Modifié par Sen4lifE, 11 août 2013 - 02:04 .

[LinksOcarina]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Too bad?

They made it perfectly clear from the onset that the series was never going to be about one person or group.

One of the biggest criticisms of DA2 was that it was a "disjointed" plotline.  The bad part is that the whole series is going to be disjointed.

um...that was kinda the point.

Let me ask you this. What is the series about?