310 réponses à ce sujet

[thebigbad1013]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...


Are you still on about the Warden? Didn't you say earlier in the thread that this wasn't about the Warden? I'm starting to think that you don't even know yourself what it is you actually want.

 
I didn't get a chance to answer the above question yesterday.  So I took the time today.

I still say this post is concerning the "direction" of DAI and not about the name or the return of the Warden, but if pressed I'll gladly point out that more fans would prefer DA3 to be the return of their Warden, because it is the truth, and anything less is disappointing.

And you still don't have any proof of that. You may want it to be the return of the Warden, and that's fine, but stop trying to speak for everyone else.

As for the direction of the franchise...what BioWare is doing is exactly what they always intended to do with the series so if people don't like that then, again, maybe they should just accept that the Dragon Age series isn't for them.

Also I still can't see what in the world the Warden would be doing if he/she did indeed return--assuming of course that he/she isn't, you know, dead.

[Jerrybnsn]

bigbad1013 wrote...


And you still don't have any proof of that. You may want it to be the return of the Warden, and that's fine, but stop trying to speak for everyone else.

I'm pointing out the obvious consensus.  If a poll is a 4% difference, then you can argue that polls don't matter, but when you have a 75% difference of over three hundred people, then you have to accept the reality.

  As for the direction of the franchise...what BioWare is doing is exactly what they always intended to do with the series so if people don't like that then, again, maybe they should just accept that the Dragon Age series isn't for them.

Which is what they plan on doing through lack of sales, which is why I'm warning Bioware.

[thebigbad1013]

Aaaand I think I'm done here.

[TehShizno]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Part of the reason for officially renaming the game to Dragon Age Inquisition is because "3"
 makes people think that HAVE to play DA 1 & DA2 before they can play DA3. This is not true as both fans who have played Dragon Age Origins & Dragon Age II AND new fans who have not played a Dragon Age game period can play and enjoy Dragon Age Inquisition.

The Mass Effect trilogy was always designed to be the story of Commander Shepard. Dragon Age has always been the story of the world of Dragon Age rather than one character within that world. In Origins you played the warden, in II you played Hawke, now in Inquisition you have to deal with the Inquisition. DAI (which I use instead of typing out Inquisition) is a new chapter in the world, so we changed the name to reflect this.

I think that part of the reason some fans disliked DAII (along with reusing areas, changes to combat and yadda yadda) was that we didn't do a good enough job of explaining the change in story. Some people played DAII expecting it to be Dragon Age Origins Part 2 and the continuation of their Warden character, which is wasn't intended to be. We want to be very clear that Dragon Age Inquisition is a new chapter in the world of Dragon Age, so we dropped the 3 as we felt it tied the game too closely to the first two games.

Not that Dragon Age Inquisition will be 100% completely new. As you saw in the trailer, Morrigan, Varric & Cassandra play a role in the game. It is possible that other characters, places, things, stories, etc do as well. You'll learn more about that as we reveal more about DAI as we move towards launch next year.

They should have been called Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age: Catalyst
Dragon Age: Inquisition 

[Plaintiff]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
I'm pointing out the obvious consensus.  If a poll is a 4% difference, then you can argue that polls don't matter, but when you have a 75% difference of over three hundred people, then you have to accept the reality.

Yes, we must all accept the reality that a poll of three hundred people does not even come close to an accurate reading of audience opinion. Three hundred people is less than one percent of the people that played DA2.

[Mike3207]

I don't think there's any doubt that when it came out, people were expecting a straight on sequel to Origins. We didn't hear anything about this being a different story for each game until DA2 came out, regardless of what the official story is now.

You're simply unlikely to get the disaffected Origins fans back by throwing in scattered characters from DAO and DA2 into I. Resolve the outstanding questions from previous games, and then they'll take I seriously. What happened to Morrigan and her child if you went that route? What happened to Hawke and the Warden? What were the Wardens busy doing in DA2? Bioware created these questions, and you're simply not going to get the disaffected Origins fans like me to plunk down $60 if these issues remain unresolved in I. Story comes first, and you're unlikely to get the disaffected fans back if the storyline issues aren't addressed.

[Cigne]

Yeah, 300 people out of the 4+ million that bought the game? That's not a reality I could accept.

[Airdeen]

Continuing the Warden story would have been fine if that had told the story they wanted to tell. They want us to experience the world of Thedas seen from different perspectives in different places. That is best done with different characters in different roles. It's not just about the Grey Wardens.

There are plenty games out there where you play the same person, like ME and Witcher. I like it that Bioware is doing something a bit different with Dragon Age.

[Plaintiff]

Mike Smith wrote...

I don't think there's any doubt that when it came out, people were expecting a straight on sequel to Origins. We didn't hear anything about this being a different story for each game until DA2 came out, regardless of what the official story is now.

Were you living under a rock in the months preceding DA2's release? There was a veritable deluge of information. They released info about the protagonist and all the companions, including short stories for some of them that explained their background and personalities in detail.

It was made absolutely crystal-clear that the game was taking place in a different location, with a different group of core characters, and that the central conflict was not going to be anything related to Darkspawn.

You're simply unlikely to get the disaffected Origins fans back by throwing in scattered characters from DAO and DA2 into I. Resolve the outstanding questions from previous games, and then they'll take I seriously. What happened to Morrigan and her child if you went that route? What happened to Hawke and the Warden? What were the Wardens busy doing in DA2? Bioware created these questions, and you're simply not going to get the disaffected Origins fans like me to plunk down $60 if these issues remain unresolved in I. Story comes first, and you're unlikely to get the disaffected fans back if the storyline issues aren't addressed.

Your personal dissatisfaction is not a "storyline issue". There is no obligation to answer all or even any questions and leaving questions unanswered does not mean that the story has been in any way neglected.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 22 juin 2013 - 04:54 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Cigne wrote...

Yeah, 300 people out of the 4+ million that bought the game? That's not a reality I could accept.

4 million people??  As of one year after being released DA2 was lucky if they sold 2.5 million.   They even stopped making dlc on it so they could work on "more pressing issues" within Bioware like SWtoR and an ending to ME3.

[Cigne]

Mike Smith wrote...

I don't think there's any doubt that when it came out, people were expecting a straight on sequel to Origins. We didn't hear anything about this being a different story for each game until DA2 came out, regardless of what the official story is now.

You're simply unlikely to get the disaffected Origins fans back by throwing in scattered characters from DAO and DA2 into I. Resolve the outstanding questions from previous games, and then they'll take I seriously. What happened to Morrigan and her child if you went that route? What happened to Hawke and the Warden? What were the Wardens busy doing in DA2? Bioware created these questions, and you're simply not going to get the disaffected Origins fans like me to plunk down $60 if these issues remain unresolved in I. Story comes first, and you're unlikely to get the disaffected fans back if the storyline issues aren't addressed.

Different stories each game was the official story then, not just now.

And Bioware intends on answering these questions, over time, because the series is not 'The Tales of the Warden', more like 'Tales from the Age of Dragons'. You know, when the fifth blight was defeated, and the Veil was sundered/closed, the Old Gods returned/destroyed, etc.

They're just using overlapping story arcs (hinting at something going on with the Wardens in DA2, to be followed up in a later game).  They are just giving up new protagonists with which to explore/effect the wor;d. (Well, hopefully, "effect").

I, for one, don't want to have my carefully crafted protagonist reduced to a newbie, for gameplay purposes, or start a new game with a god-like overpowered level 30+.

[Cigne]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Cigne wrote...

Yeah, 300 people out of the 4+ million that bought the game? That's not a reality I could accept.

4 million people??  As of one year after being released DA2 was lucky if they sold 2.5 million.   They even stopped making dlc on it so they could work on "more pressing issues" within Bioware like SWtoR and an ending to ME3.

I was referring to DAO. And you really think '300 out of 2.5+ million' is that much of a weaker point?

Ok, this isn't really a dialogue anymore. If it ever was.

[Kerethos]

It's about the Dragon Age, from different characters perspective... I'm cool with that.
Though, I suppose DA2 should have been named DA:Tales of the Champion or DA:Fails of the Champion (figured I'd put that there before anyone else does - since the champions story deals a lot with loss and failure to prevent terrible things from happening). Basically; a sub-title instead of a number - for clarity.

[mad825]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Part of the reason for officially renaming the game to Dragon Age Inquisition is because "3"
 makes people think that HAVE to play DA 1 & DA2 before they can play DA3. This is not true as both fans who have played Dragon Age Origins & Dragon Age II AND new fans who have not played a Dragon Age game period can play and enjoy Dragon Age Inquisition.

So you're placing new fans in front of old, loyal fans?

At some point, you're going to have to recognise that current fans are the only ones that buy the sequel with some guarantee. You cannot, I repeat, cannot keep on appealing to newer audiences

Remember Ultima 9?
The more in-depth and complex the story cannon gets, the more you're having to simplify and in turn more plot points you're needing to recton as well alienating current fans

Some people played DAII expecting it to be Dragon Age Origins Part 2 and the continuation of their Warden character, which is wasn't intended to be. We want to be very clear that Dragon Age Inquisition is a new chapter in the world of Dragon Age, so we dropped the 3 as we felt it tied the game too closely to the first two games.

This would the first time hearing this.

I'm sure those who played DAO, liked it and were anticipating the sequel knew what DA2 was about. I'm sure that they knew that this was a new adventure circa a new protagonist. Same with this one.

Modifié par mad825, 22 juin 2013 - 05:39 .

[Airdeen]

Kerethos_ wrote...

It's about the Dragon Age, from different characters perspective... I'm cool with that.
Though, I suppose DA2 should have been named DA:Tales of the Champion or DA:Fails of the Champion (figured I'd put that there before anyone else does - since the champions story deals a lot with loss and failure to prevent terrible things from happening). Basically; a sub-title instead of a number - for clarity.

Yea, just calling it Dragon Age 2 was a mistake since it implied a direct continuation from where DA:O ended. I think that the reason for this mistake is most likely the same as for many of the other weaknesses/mistakes of the game: it was a rushed job where they didn't have time to sit down and think clearly about what they were doing.

[Jerrybnsn]

Cigne wrote...

I was referring to DAO. And you really think '300 out of 2.5+ million' is that much of a weaker point?

Ok, this isn't really a dialogue anymore. If it ever was.

 Well then, where are the polls where fans don't want their Wardens back? 

Here's a link to a game review that discusses what you can play while we are waiting for the Darkspawn to regroup (another fan that wants the Grey Warden story back).

[Airdeen]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Cigne wrote...

I was referring to DAO. And you really think '300 out of 2.5+ million' is that much of a weaker point?

Ok, this isn't really a dialogue anymore. If it ever was.

 Well then, where are the polls where fans don't want their Wardens back? 

Here's a link to a game review that discusses what you can play while we are waiting for the Darkspawn to regroup (another fan that wants the Grey Warden story back).

A little question to you: Do you reckon it's possible a lot of those people wanted the Warden back because the game was titled DA2, which implies it would continue where the first game ended (in which case it's natural they'd expect to play the Warden again)?

If so, maybe they'd be happier with a new protagonist if the game was called Dragon Age: Kirkwall or something?

This is just pure speculation, mind!

[Plaintiff]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Well then, where are the polls where fans don't want their Wardens back?

Who cares? They'd be just as useless as your polls.

Anyone who cares enough to take an internet survey about a videogame in the first place is already in the minority. This entire forum is in the minority, and no sensible person would use it or any other videogame discussion forum for reliable data collection.

Here's a link to a game review that discusses what you can play while we are waiting for the Darkspawn to regroup (another fan that wants the Grey Warden story back).

Here's a baby elephant sneezing and scaring himself. It adds just as much weight to my argument as your video does to yours.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 22 juin 2013 - 05:56 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Liskat wrote...


A little question to you: Do you reckon it's possible a lot of those people wanted the Warden back because the game was titled DA2, which implies it would continue where the first game ended (in which case it's natural they'd expect to play the Warden again)?

If so, maybe they'd be happier with a new protagonist if the game was called Dragon Age: Kirkwall or something?

This is just pure speculation, mind!

I thought that they would continued with importing the Warden because it was a Bioware game proclaiming to be following in the succesion of Baldur's Gate, which allowed you to import your character all the way through or make new ones along the way.

[Plaintiff]

mad825 wrote...
You cannot, I repeat, cannot keep on appealing to newer audiences

That's utter nonsense. Appealing to newer audiences is something every company should strive for with every single product. Especially games.

The "current audience" will shrink, no matter what Bioware does. Members of the "current audience" get older, they get busier, they die.

Ignoring newer audiences means one thing and one thing only for a company: bankruptcy.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 22 juin 2013 - 06:01 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Plaintiff wrote...

no sensible person would use it or any other videogame discussion forum for reliable data collection.

Here's a link to a game review that discusses what you can play while we are waiting for the Darkspawn to regroup (another fan that wants the Grey Warden story back).

Here's a baby elephant sneezing and scaring himself. It adds just as much weight to my argument as your video does to yours.

I thought you might enjoy seeing in visual someone else expressing what they expect out of the next DA game.  Darkspawn, Wardens....plus it has a very humorous rip on EA's DRM policy, which is another topic for later.  And it's about a great combat/Rpg game with Xena flaming chakrans.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 22 juin 2013 - 06:21 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Plaintiff wrote...


The "current audience" will shrink, no matter what Bioware does. Members of the "current audience" get older, they get busier, they die.

TES series has only continued to grow with their fan base as new ones are added each game.  And all they do is tweek their games, not go off searching for different gamers.  They sold about $10 million in their first ten weeks of Skyrim's launch?  And that's an RPG, not a FPS.  

[Meatbaggins]

mad825 wrote...
So you're placing new fans in front of old, loyal fans?

What makes you think a game can't appeal to both?

[Plaintiff]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
TES series has only continued to grow with their fan base as new ones are added each game.

Yes. In fact, the vast majority of Skyrim's audience had never purchased a TES game before.

Which only proves my point. New audiences are the way to financial success. TES's audience grew because new people joined it. That doesn't mean that all the old people stayed. More than likely most of the "old crew" are gone, for reasons I stated previously.

And all they do is tweek their games, not go off searching for different gamers.

What the hell are you talking about? Skyrim was aggressively marketed in a way that no previous Elder Scrolls game has ever been. It was very obviously fishing for different gamers. And in fact, many TES veterans on this forum and others have ****ed about the changes incessantly.

Using the same logic that you applied to DA2 just a few posts ago, that's incontravertible proof that the majority hates Skyrim.

DA2 does not make any signfiicant changes to the gameplay of DA:O either. It "tweaked" it the same way that Skyrim did, but the major features and core experience were unchanged.

In fact, Skyrim does a lot of the same things that you complain about Dragon Age doing; the protagonist of every game is different, every game is set in a different location, and every game has a different core conflict.

So you're also a hypocrite.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 22 juin 2013 - 06:36 .