12 réponses à ce sujet

[Faust1979]

Well in one of my playthrough's I let the queen take him off to be executed but they are supposed to be bound by honor and all this but then he gets all in a huff and no one really cares that he ditches his duty. I think Duncan would have killed him for that if he tried to leave.  Riordin just lets him go to

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

If you let him get executed he gets executed. If you demand that Anora spare him then Anora spares him--that's *your* Grey Warden letting him go.

No one listens to Riordan anyway.

[ANGRYWOLF1]

I never give Anora the option of executing Allistar. Either he marries Anora or my warden does and Loghain dies.

[Lavaeolus]

Given that you're the only other Grey Warden in the room and you had just spoke out about Alistair being killed, Riordan probably decides to let the matter slide.

Also, executing him in front of the what is essentially the whole of Ferelden's leadership (so yes, people will know, and not "oh I know but never really think about it" given the publicity, Grey Wardens kill those who leave them) would probably be bad PR.

Plus, you don't want to get too involved with the big political proceedings. Maker knows you've already almost completely blown up the "politically neutral" rule -- best not try and go too much further.

Modifié par Mr Maniac, 25 juin 2013 - 12:08 .

[Jedimaster88]

Almost all the party members can leave the warden at key moments, yet I dont hear anyone complaining about them ever. Only Alistair gets the hate for leaving.

All the party members have their own values and limits. Alistair´s just happen to appear at the lansdmeet. Just because you are a warden doesnt mean that you just stop believing in the things you value.

I personally think letting Alistair to be executed is one of the most a**hole things you can do. He has fought at your side all this time and has been a loyal and this is how some people reward him. By betrayal. If someone has to die there, it should be Loghain. The fact that Riordan and the others say absolutely nothing if Alistair dies disgusts me greatly. So much for all that talk about being loyal to your brothers. Because of this Im not too eager to listen Riordan anymore.

Nowadays I have begun to hate the whole landsmeet. At first I liked it because I got to kick Loghain´s ass properly. Not only do you beat him in his own game by exposing his actions and turning the people against him but you also beat him in combat and finally chop of his head. Now after seeing the different versions of the landsmeet, I hate it and want to just get it over with. Depending on your choices the landsmeet can show either the good or the ugly side of people.

Modifié par Jedimaster88, 25 juin 2013 - 03:57 .

[Corker]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

Almost all the party members can leave the warden at key moments, yet I dont hear anyone complaining about them ever. Only Alistair gets the hate for leaving.

Nnnno.  Morrigan gets quite a bit of hate for leaving if you turn down the DR, Zevran gets *tons* of hate for siding with Taliesen against the Warden.  Leliana gets more flack than Wynne for reacting badly at the Ashes; I think if your Coersion and Approval are high enough, you can browbeat her into staying, so it comes up somewhat less often.

OP's point is that, in this case, it isn't just Alistair leaving the protagonist's company.  It is Grey Warden Alistair publicly renouncing his membership in the Grey Wardens.  Previously, when Grey Warden Recruit Jory tried to back away from the Order, he got shanked.  Alistair knows more than Jory ever did, yet is permitted to walk free without mandatory murderknifing.  In this case, it's not about hate, it's about ever-shifting Grey Warden policy as presented in-game.

I think the answer that it's a bad idea for the Warden tendency to shank recruits/members to become graphic public knowledge is a good one, particularly in Ferelden where the Order has been outlawed for many years, and still has the whiff of an Orlesian import to it.

[Jedimaster88]

Corker wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...

Almost all the party members can leave the warden at key moments, yet I dont hear anyone complaining about them ever. Only Alistair gets the hate for leaving.

Nnnno.  Morrigan gets quite a bit of hate for leaving if you turn down the DR, Zevran gets *tons* of hate for siding with Taliesen against the Warden.  Leliana gets more flack than Wynne for reacting badly at the Ashes; I think if your Coersion and Approval are high enough, you can browbeat her into staying, so it comes up somewhat less often.

I stand corrected. I must have missed those ones. I dont spend much time here checking different topics. The ones I have checked, always complained about Alistair.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Corker wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...

Almost all the party members can leave the warden at key moments, yet I dont hear anyone complaining about them ever. Only Alistair gets the hate for leaving.

Nnnno.  Morrigan gets quite a bit of hate for leaving if you turn down the DR, Zevran gets *tons* of hate for siding with Taliesen against the Warden.  Leliana gets more flack than Wynne for reacting badly at the Ashes; I think if your Coersion and Approval are high enough, you can browbeat her into staying, so it comes up somewhat less often.

You can. I've done it.

Edit: It didn't even end the romance.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 25 juin 2013 - 06:51 .

[MadCat221]

I think the "Warden for Life" thing pertains mainly to the fact that you can't undo the fact that you drank Archdemon Blood. You can retire, but the taint is forever part of you.

Fiona also retires apparently and is the Grand Enchanter in Asunder.

Also, the "neutrality" thing is as holey as swiss cheese.  The ones at HQ in Weisshaupt lead the Anderfels in all but name because of a weak king.

Jedimaster88 wrote...
Nowadays I have begun to hate the whole
landsmeet. At first I liked it because I got to kick Loghain´s ass
properly. Not only do you beat him in his own game by exposing his
actions and turning the people against him but you also beat him in
combat and finally chop of his head. Now after seeing the different
versions of the landsmeet, I hate it and want to just get it over with.
Depending on your choices the landsmeet can show either the good or the
ugly side of people.

The Landsmeet is what you make it into.  Don't hate on the Landsmeet, hate on your handling of it.

Modifié par MadCat221, 29 juin 2013 - 06:49 .

[Merc Mama]

It's not a binding contract, just a we save your life, so you might as well thank us by staying on and fighting Darkspawn contract.
I hate Alistair for leaving because I honestly thought he was being a child, loved him I did, but bastard couldn't compromise.

[MadCat221]

Merc Mama wrote...

It's not a binding contract, just a we save your life, so you might as well thank us by staying on and fighting Darkspawn contract.
I hate Alistair for leaving because I honestly thought he was being a child, loved him I did, but bastard couldn't compromise.

In another thread, I made note that only the two Dwarven origins would have no grievances of their own with Loghain.

For the Human Noble, Howe could not have any notion that he could get away with the mass murder at Highever if Loghain didn't make himself an accomplice and approve by association of Howe's plan.  The Regent's "Justice" is apparently to award such murderers with the titles of those he murdered.

For the City Elf... allowing Tevinter slaving to happen in their home turf, obviously.

Dalish Elf isn't quite as personal as City Elf, but still... Loghain was accepting money from Tevinter slavers enslaving elves.  Typical human lord tyranny, from the dalish perspective.

For the Mage, he allied himself with amoral sociopathic Libertarian mage that would attempt to subvert the Circle to Loghain's side and would subsequently go all Maleficar and make a huge mess out of Kinloch Hold.

So unless I'm playing a Dwarven playthru, I am disinclined to let Loghain live too.

Modifié par MadCat221, 01 juillet 2013 - 05:55 .

[Lady Yunalesca]

The reason why they do not let Grey Warden's leave at will, is because the Joining is very secret, and the fact that you can die from the Joining is not known among commoners.

I think a reason why Riordan wouldn't necessarily say anything is because at this point in the game (Landsmeet), there are only a few *yourself, Alistair, Riordan* left in Ferelden.

By executing Alistair and recruiting Loghain, Loghain pretty much takes his spot, and Alistair can't say anything if he is dead. By just letting him go, I don't think Riordan would bother putting up much of a fight because there are only few left and the situation is now very dire. Who is Alistair really going to tell about it anyway, it's not like he sets up a rebellion against the Grey Warden's once he is exiled, or whatever.

[sylvanaerie]

I only spared Loghain once (from a player standpoint) to see new endings, get an achievement and had to RP it was done by a Cousland so mentally devastated by the loss of his family he went off his trolley for a while. So, yea, I think recruiting Loghain only makes sense if your warden is batsh*t eating insane.

You're trading Alistair, a young man with approximately 30 years of darkspawn fighting left in him, and a damn good tank, for an old has been just because...ummm why exactly? Loghain isn't going to be used as a general, that's the warden. Kind of makes him redundant. And my wardens don't give a gnat's fart about Loghain's 'redemption'. They have a blight to fight. So I rarely see Alistair get upset since 95% of the time I just let him duel him--at which point he kills the old general without subjecting me to his lame ass speech about little girls with scraped knees, or Alistair's childish fit. No one behaves well at the Landsmeet, enough mudslinging to satisfy the most crooked politician.

However, the one time I did recruit Loghain, I didn't have Alistair executed because people say and do things they end up regretting in the heat of the moment. My Cousland boy thought Alistair would be back (though I know that's not in the story), and actually didn't understand why he got so upset, since I had never talked to him beyond what the game required of me to. Like I said, nuts.

Plus executing him just for being a Theirin is a really dick move, though not the first time a king has done something like that in real history.

As for the wardens, I don't think they execute if you 'leave' the order. Just because you leave, doesn't change the fact that the joining changes you. You can't give up EVER being a warden. And people leave all the time. Fiona is a First Enchanter in Asunder. One of the wardens in the Calling was going to retire from the order. I think the only thing that makes them 'kill you if you leave' is to the recruits who try to run away during the Joining (like Jory). And really did Duncan ever say "I will kill you if you run."? No, he says "I had no choice, he pulled his blade." I think he much would have preferred talking Jory down, an unlikely possibility after watching Daveth choke on his quaff.

Riordan may be senior warden in Ferelden, but for all intents and purposes, he's Orlesian, an outsider and foreigner. This is the PC Warden's show, and his/her call what is acceptable and what isn't. And it's a blight. I don't think Duncan, Riordan or anyone cares what happens as long as the blight is ended.