Aller au contenu

Photo

Of Dreams and Nightmares - A Mage Manifesto


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
1656 réponses à ce sujet

#626
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

Ieldra2 wrote...
I like how you equate magical talent with a "deadly and virulent virus". It illustrates the mindset we're dealing with here nicely. There have been groups equated with microbes before in human history. It has usually resulted in similar actions, and those were usually called genocide by history. No matter how much you think you're justified, you usually aren't, and - not to put a too fine point on it - possession and blood magic aren't contagious.

(I could also reject your assertion on epidemiological grounds, but that would be too much OT text)


He does it because it CAN be comapred to a deadly, virulent virus.

Since a mage is a portal to the Fade and any abomination will attempt to create more of it's kind, any mage is basicly a point of contagion and spread of demons.
You also cannot tell a non-possed mage fro ma possesed one - just like you usually can't tell an infected from a non-infected untill it's too late.

The danger the Corruption of a Circle presents is - in effect, and in severity - comparable to a horrible virus gone out of control.

Any historical comparison is PONLTESS and completelty UNFITTING.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 juin 2013 - 12:49 .


#627
MWImexico

MWImexico
  • Members
  • 370 messages
First, I would like to thank you both Ieldra2 and Dragonflight for sharing your letters. I enjoyed the reading and it showed me other interesting perspectives. That can certainly be used as a base for reflection.

About what I wrote earlier about the blood magic, well, in fact I'm not so sure that, based on what we witnessed in Kirkwall, we could state that the use of blood magic increases de chances of becoming an abomination.

Why? Because de daughter of Ser Trask became suddenly an abomination, in the same way that the mages during the canceling of the cercle did. I don't think the daugther of Ser Trask was a blood mage (of course I can't be sure), so I can deduce from that that some of the mages who turned into abominations during the canceling weren't.

About the mages being contagious, no they aren't. Mages are not contagious, abomination on the other hand can be.

Before the canceling of the circle, you can't possibly state that the mages inside represent a dire danger, they become dangerous after they are attakced and the ROA is proclamed. To make short they react.

If they were so dangerous Meredith wouldn't have waited that Anders blown the Chantery to attack. And maybe the Divine would have say no.

#628
vpacheco1984

vpacheco1984
  • Members
  • 147 messages
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]TTTX wrote...

Kirkwall itself had blood mages most of them were either from Tevinter or apostates, the Circle itself not really at least not until at the time of act 3, but at that point the Circle were pushed pretty far by Meredith as she tightened her grip on both Kirkwall and the Circle which not many were happy about that includes none mages. If you keep pushing someone, sooner or later they push back, mages are still people even with their powers.[/quote]

The Circle was corrupt. That much was obvious,. So many links to the circle, so many bad mages.

[quote]
Meredith also has no proof that Anders was working with the Circle, she can't just call out RoA like she did, she still needed to investigate the matter properly, not to mention she needed the necessary approval from a grand cleric.[/quote]

Irrelevant.
Anders is NOT the reason to call for the RoA. The general state of the Circle is.



[quote]
There is also that little fact that the Circle also houses children RoA require them to die as well and you can't convince me that they deserve to die as well.[/qutoe]

Deserve?
Life is not about what one deserves.
[/quote]


You, Lotion Soronnarare. are an idiot. The circle was no where near lost before the ROA was called for hell even Cullen said it wasn't. Meredith was just a paranoid pyschopath who wanted. It was not over run with blood mages, look at the cut scene there was no blood mage used their when they were being slaughterd whole sale and though out the city there were planty of mages who weren't using blood mage and if you're going to use that tired as escuse of the demons every where SAVE IT. There is no proff that the mages summoned them considering you find demons all over kirkwall that have been traped outside the fade since the Kirkwall was still under the rule of Tevinter. Also the fact that you think it's okay to kill children because they deserve to die for actions that were not their own.

There is something really wrong with you and I pray you are never in any kind of positon of power or else we may have another blood thristy killing people by the thousands because their skin isn't the right color dictator on our hands. 

Modifié par vpacheco1984, 29 juin 2013 - 02:20 .


#629
Ieldra

Ieldra
  • Members
  • 25 188 messages

MWImexico wrote...
About what I wrote earlier about the blood magic, well, in fact I'm not so sure that, based on what we witnessed in Kirkwall, we could state that the use of blood magic increases de chances of becoming an abomination.

That blood magic draws demons is mere supposition, and it is, in fact, implausible. Spirits should be attracted by expression of the character traits they represent. So sacrificing another for magical power should attract pride demons (the sacrifice represents that you consider your power worth more than the other's life), and whatever you use blood magic for would determine if other spirits are attracted as well, but intrinsically blood magic is just a tool. You can forbid blood magic on pragmatic grounds because it can be used for mind control, but there's nothing inherently bad about it, but IMO special dispensation should be given for researching defensive measures. It can't be that you're forbidden to research a defense against mind control because that would mean studying blood magic and using it to experiment (given it's on yourself or willing subjects only of course). 

Before the canceling of the circle, you can't possibly state that the mages inside represent a dire danger, they become dangerous after they are attakced and the ROA is proclamed. To make short they react.

In fact, there is not a single confirmed instance of an abomination running amok within the Kirkwall circle. If anything, the rampant insanity outside the Circle calls for an investigation, not for Annulment. Also, the pressure applied by the templars drove mages to desperate actions, they have their share of responsibility. Refusing to accept that means blaming the victim - something I see all the time from templar supporters here.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 juin 2013 - 02:39 .


#630
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages
Lotion Soronnar, you describe the mages as being something less than human, almost unworthy of life itself. You Templars claim to protect the world from magic? You wouldn't need to do so if Templar abuse hadn't pushed the mages so far in the first place.

#631
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

MWImexico wrote...
Before the canceling of the circle, you can't possibly state that the mages inside represent a dire danger, they become dangerous after they are attakced and the ROA is proclamed. To make short they react.

If they were so dangerous Meredith wouldn't have waited that Anders blown the Chantery to attack. And maybe the Divine would have say no.


I can.
And Meredith wanted a RoA exactly for that reason even before Anders blew up the Chantry. Elthina denied it.

#632
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

MWImexico wrote...
Before the canceling of the circle, you can't possibly state that the mages inside represent a dire danger, they become dangerous after they are attakced and the ROA is proclamed. To make short they react.

If they were so dangerous Meredith wouldn't have waited that Anders blown the Chantery to attack. And maybe the Divine would have say no.


I can.
And Meredith wanted a RoA exactly for that reason even before Anders blew up the Chantry. Elthina denied it.

Not a dire danger, Lotion, but a possible danger. So you decide to kill them all just because of something that might occur?

#633
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

vpacheco1984 wrote...

You, Lotion Soronnarare. are an idiot.


Your opinion is noted, stomped upon, ground to dust, eaten and shat out again.



The circle was no where near lost before the ROA was called for hell even Cullen said it wasn't.


That is a matter of opinion.
An argument certanly can be made that hte circle was inflitrated by blood mages. As such anyone can be corrupted.


There is no proff that the mages summoned them considering you find demons all over kirkwall that have been traped outside the fade since the Kirkwall was still under the rule of Tevinter. Also the fact that you think it's okay to kill children because they deserve to die for actions that were not their own.


I told you before.
"Deserve" is irrelevant.


There is something really wrong with you and I pray you are never in any kind of positon of power or else we may have another blood thristy killing people by the thousands because their skin isn't the right color dictator on our hands.


I don't want a position of power, thank you.
Too much responsibility and the necessity to make these kinds of harsh decisions.

Also, comparing mages to blacks is idiotic to say the least.

#634
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar, you describe the mages as being something less than human, almost unworthy of life itself. You Templars claim to protect the world from magic? You wouldn't need to do so if Templar abuse hadn't pushed the mages so far in the first place.


I do?
First I hear of it.

But surely you must now my thoughts better than me, right?

#635
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...

You, Lotion Soronnarare. are an idiot.


Your opinion is noted, stomped upon, ground to dust, eaten and shat out again.



The circle was no where near lost before the ROA was called for hell even Cullen said it wasn't.


That is a matter of opinion.
An argument certanly can be made that hte circle was inflitrated by blood mages. As such anyone can be corrupted.


There is no proff that the mages summoned them considering you find demons all over kirkwall that have been traped outside the fade since the Kirkwall was still under the rule of Tevinter. Also the fact that you think it's okay to kill children because they deserve to die for actions that were not their own.


I told you before.
"Deserve" is irrelevant.


There is something really wrong with you and I pray you are never in any kind of positon of power or else we may have another blood thristy killing people by the thousands because their skin isn't the right color dictator on our hands.


I don't want a position of power, thank you.
Too much responsibility and the necessity to make these kinds of harsh decisions.

Also, comparing mages to blacks is idiotic to say the least.

Coming from a black person Lotion, I don't think he is that far off. Granted, it is a tiny bit of a stretch. I think that at the end of the day, I  would say it comes down to people being distinguished and marked as "other" based on something inherent to them, something that they cannot get rid of, and sometimes being even killed for it.
But nonetheless, I would compare the Andrastian Chantry's Exalted March on the Dalish as something similar to what happened to black people. They were discriminated against because of race.

#636
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar, you describe the mages as being something less than human, almost unworthy of life itself. You Templars claim to protect the world from magic? You wouldn't need to do so if Templar abuse hadn't pushed the mages so far in the first place.


I do?
First I hear of it.

But surely you must now my thoughts better than me, right?

Calling mages a corrupted virus isn't demeaning or dehumanizing?

#637
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I can.
And Meredith wanted a RoA exactly for that reason even before Anders blew up the Chantry. Elthina denied it.

Not a dire danger, Lotion, but a possible danger. So you decide to kill them all just because of something that might occur?


I don't decide anything.
Meredith does. The threat of a corrupted circle is not a laughing matter.

You recall what happened in Ferelden and was just Uldred.

#638
vpacheco1984

vpacheco1984
  • Members
  • 147 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar, you describe the mages as being something less than human, almost unworthy of life itself. You Templars claim to protect the world from magic? You wouldn't need to do so if Templar abuse hadn't pushed the mages so far in the first place.


I do?
First I hear of it.

But surely you must now my thoughts better than me, right?


You do talk about mages as something less then human and barely worthy of life. You should really reread you own post. You sound a lot like propagranda films during WWII describing the Jews as parasites that need to be wiped out.

#639
vpacheco1984

vpacheco1984
  • Members
  • 147 messages

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...

You, Lotion Soronnarare. are an idiot.


Your opinion is noted, stomped upon, ground to dust, eaten and shat out again.



The circle was no where near lost before the ROA was called for hell even Cullen said it wasn't.


That is a matter of opinion.
An argument certanly can be made that hte circle was inflitrated by blood mages. As such anyone can be corrupted.


There is no proff that the mages summoned them considering you find demons all over kirkwall that have been traped outside the fade since the Kirkwall was still under the rule of Tevinter. Also the fact that you think it's okay to kill children because they deserve to die for actions that were not their own.


I told you before.
"Deserve" is irrelevant.


There is something really wrong with you and I pray you are never in any kind of positon of power or else we may have another blood thristy killing people by the thousands because their skin isn't the right color dictator on our hands.


I don't want a position of power, thank you.
Too much responsibility and the necessity to make these kinds of harsh decisions.

Also, comparing mages to blacks is idiotic to say the least.

Coming from a black person Lotion, I don't think he is that far off. Granted, it is a tiny bit of a stretch. I think that at the end of the day, I  would say it comes down to people being distinguished and marked as "other" based on something inherent to them, something that they cannot get rid of, and sometimes being even killed for it.
But nonetheless, I would compare the Andrastian Chantry's Exalted March on the Dalish as something similar to what happened to black people. They were discriminated against because of race.


Sorry if I offened you.:( 

#640
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

vpacheco1984 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...

You, Lotion Soronnarare. are an idiot.


Your opinion is noted, stomped upon, ground to dust, eaten and shat out again.



The circle was no where near lost before the ROA was called for hell even Cullen said it wasn't.


That is a matter of opinion.
An argument certanly can be made that hte circle was inflitrated by blood mages. As such anyone can be corrupted.


There is no proff that the mages summoned them considering you find demons all over kirkwall that have been traped outside the fade since the Kirkwall was still under the rule of Tevinter. Also the fact that you think it's okay to kill children because they deserve to die for actions that were not their own.


I told you before.
"Deserve" is irrelevant.


There is something really wrong with you and I pray you are never in any kind of positon of power or else we may have another blood thristy killing people by the thousands because their skin isn't the right color dictator on our hands.


I don't want a position of power, thank you.
Too much responsibility and the necessity to make these kinds of harsh decisions.

Also, comparing mages to blacks is idiotic to say the least.

Coming from a black person Lotion, I don't think he is that far off. Granted, it is a tiny bit of a stretch. I think that at the end of the day, I  would say it comes down to people being distinguished and marked as "other" based on something inherent to them, something that they cannot get rid of, and sometimes being even killed for it.
But nonetheless, I would compare the Andrastian Chantry's Exalted March on the Dalish as something similar to what happened to black people. They were discriminated against because of race.


Sorry if I offened you.:( 

You're fine Posted Image. But I do agree that while the two are not entirely the same issue, the conflict is very similar.

#641
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

eluvianix wrote...

Coming from a black person Lotion, I don't think he is that far off.


I don't care what color is your skin.
You could be a jewish black transsexual mormon for all I care. It wouldn't make you any less wrong.


Mages are NOT like any real life group or minority.



Calling mages a corrupted virus isn't demeaning or dehumanizing?


No.
Becaure that's not what I called them.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 juin 2013 - 03:14 .


#642
vpacheco1984

vpacheco1984
  • Members
  • 147 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Coming from a black person Lotion, I don't think he is that far off.


I don't care what color is your skin.
You could be a jewish black transsexual mormon for all I care. It wouldn't make you any less wrong.


Mages are NOT like any real life group or minority.



Calling mages a corrupted virus isn't demeaning or dehumanizing?


No.
Becaure that's not what I called them.


Yeah you did.

#643
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I like how you equate magical talent with a "deadly and virulent virus". It illustrates the mindset we're dealing with here nicely. There have been groups equated with microbes before in human history. It has usually resulted in similar actions, and those were usually called genocide by history. No matter how much you think you're justified, you usually aren't, and - not to put a too fine point on it - possession and blood magic aren't contagious.

(I could also reject your assertion on epidemiological grounds, but that would be too much OT text)


He does it because it CAN be comapred to a deadly, virulent virus.

Since a mage is a portal to the Fade and any abomination will attempt to create more of it's kind, any mage is basicly a point of contagion and spread of demons.
You also cannot tell a non-possed mage fro ma possesed one - just like you usually can't tell an infected from a non-infected untill it's too late.

The danger the Corruption of a Circle presents is - in effect, and in severity - comparable to a horrible virus gone out of control.

Any historical comparison is PONLTESS and completelty UNFITTING.


Modifié par eluvianix, 29 juin 2013 - 03:22 .


#644
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Coming from a black person Lotion, I don't think he is that far off.


I don't care what color is your skin.
You could be a jewish black transsexual mormon for all I care. It wouldn't make you any less wrong.



Mages are NOT like any real life group or minority.



Calling mages a corrupted virus isn't demeaning or dehumanizing?


No.
Becaure that's not what I called them.

I would think I have a little more perspective on that than you ever would. So I suggest you back down on that front. 

Modifié par eluvianix, 29 juin 2013 - 03:21 .


#645
MisterJB

MisterJB
  • Members
  • 15 587 messages

eluvianix wrote...
I would think I have a little more perspective on that than you ever would. So I suggest you back down on that front. 

Being black does not give your more perspective over this issue because the various times in human history where one group was discriminated against (blacks don't have the monopoly on that) can't be compared to the "discrimination" mages suffers because the differences between ethnic groups in our real world are (mostly) superficial and irrelevant in any practical sense whereas the differences between mages and non-mages are quite obvious and extremely dangerous due to mages having the capability to make others explode from the inside out with their minds. Therefore, what might be unjustifiable in our world migth just be justified in Thedas.

And honestly, how would you even know you have more perspective than Lotion? As far as you know, he is a christian in Egypt or a muslim in Burma and thus quite knowledgeable about persecution.

#646
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

dragonflight288 wrote...

I'm pretty sure that what I'm about to do is on topic in this thread because it started out as a manifesto. It'll be a mental exercise to look at the issue from two differing perspectives.

This'll be a manifesto from the perspective of my first two playthroughs. Daylen Amell, a mage who practiced the school of spirit extensively, and became an Arcane Warrior. He's kind of a cross between Lucrosian and Libertarian, but mostly Lucrosian. And one written by Thorin Aeducan, (my avatar) the Dwarven Noble who left Orzammar as a staunch traditionalist and took an outsider's point of view from a society that never feared magic unless it came from an emissary attacking them in the darkspawn. His view changed more than he would like to admit while on the surface, but is coming at the issue with fresh eyes.

Magic exists to Serve Man, and never to rule over him!

These were the first words Knight-Commander Gregoire spoke to me when I was taken to my Harrowing. Our magic is a gift, but also a curse. Through magic, we mages can do as much as any non-mage, or mundane as some of my peers have called them. And in many ways, we can do much more. But we live in constant danger, not only from the threats from the Fade but also from our own power. I myself saw a mage practice his fire spells, only to set himself alight when learning he could injure himself. His mentor had to douse him and encouraged the use of flint and tinder instead. Enchanter Wynne herself told me that before attending the Circle, she had lit a boy's head on fire as he was bullying her.

Naturally it is apparent that all mages everywhere need a place to study magic and learn to control their own power.

The College of Magi have only recently declared themselves independent, and while I was occupied at the time of the events, the afteraffects are very real everywhere in the world. I never thought I would see the day when templars would leave enmasse from the Chantry over an ideology difference and where mages exist in the world. But as it stands now, there is no going back to the way things were. Not without a lot of bloodshed.

As a Warden, I have seen templars such as Ser Rylock ignore their duty to their country and disregard ancient treaties made with the Grey Wardens and our right to conscript. And failing to take our mages away, try to strong-arm their own into our ranks so they could do their job as templars within the Grey Warden's ranks. I made it a rule after Anders' left that templar recruits are welcome within the order, but any Templar who has made his vows and become addicted to lyrium will be shown the door. Anyone who joins the Wardens will face the Darkspawn.

In the words of Warden-Commander Duncan, Maker bless his soul: Chantry business is not ours.

What should be my first and only priority is dealing with the
darkspawn may have to be placed into storage if the Templars or Seekers,
well, seek to interfere with Warden business again, then we as Wardens must do whatever is necessary to make sure that our business is never interfered with again.

However, as a mage, my hands may be forced by this war, and so I have written this for all nations of Thedas to read. The Circles of Magi are no longer under the jurisdiction of the Chantry, so all the rulers should just get used to treating the mages as their own entity and organization from this point forward. I also give you warning, if you seek mages to serve as healers in your army, or even mages to be in your army, or to serve as Enchanters, then you must commit to keeping them safe. The Templars and the Seekers will not leave any mage live in peace. The Nevarran Accord has been declared to be void, and so we know the templars and the Seekers may once again reform as the inquisition of old.

Magic exists to serve man, but I ask how can it serve man when the mage's head is on a pike? How can mages in the Wardens serve man by fighting the darkspawn of we cannot do our jobs in peace? How can healers serve man if they are killed for being what they are?

To the mages, now, more than ever, we must live up to the words of my mentor, the First Enchanter Irving. "We must prove we are strong enough to handle our maker-given power!" We now have our independence from the Chantry, but if we cannot prove we are capable of handling our independence, all we will accomplish is justifying the Circle's we just left. You must find a way to train young mages how to control their power, and to protect yourselves from the dangers of the Fade.

As a Spirit Mage, I understand that through constantly studying the Fade and tapping into its power that we ourselves can do what the templars themselves have done. Through the school of spirit, we can disrupt spells, drain mana, and even negate its effects entirely far more effectively than the templars themselves are capable of. But the school of spirit draws its power from the fade directly, and is etheral in nature. This in turn may draw the attention of spirits in the Fade, so it remains essential that we train warriors in the arts of the templars so that they may assist.

We all know that we must be able to punish our own who break crimes, so let us look to the Aequitarians, the Libertarians, and even the Loyalists, and come up with a set code of conduct and laws that we as mages must adhere to, including a set punishment for crimes. Tranquility has been proven curable, but is it justifiable to be used on a blood mage who used their mind dominating powers to remove the free-will of others? Is it justifiable to use on apprentices who show they cannot resist the allure of a demon? And how can we tell if an apprentice can or cannot resist?

We must also look at supplies. The chantry controls the lyrium trade, and we need lyrium to augment our powers, or to be used in essential magical research. Should we lose lyrium, our only other option is blood magic. Do we want to be known throughout the world as blood mages the very moment we turn from the Chantry? We have declared our independence, so we need a supply of lyrium. Do we make a deal with Divine Justinia, do we raid chantry storehouses, or do we trade goods and services to Orzammar in exchange for lyrium? We also have no country, we don't have land or resources, so we need also attend to finding a home where we can live.

We mages are free, but we must now show we have earned it, and are responsible with our power. Magic exists to serve man. As my family have said, our magic should serve what is best in us, not what is base.

I am the Warden-Commander of Ferelden, and I will continue to serve in that capacity to the best of my ability. But to all mages, you must find a way to show your control over your power and that you can be trusted with your freedom. If you don't, you will only justify the chantry's view of us. You must move forward, but you must do so sensibly and without hesitation. The templars will not wait for you.

Daylen Amell

Hero of Ferelden, Warden-Commander.


****

Surfacers have their brains addled by that globe of fire in the Sky. They should all just fall into it.

The first time I came to the surface with the Wardens, I had to be dragged in a cart because I couldn't stand to be out in the open while on the surface. I might have fallen into it. I still cannot get over the queasy feeling that comes with stepping out of doors. I need a roof over my head, or better still, return to Orzammar.

But only one thing has terrified me more than the stone-forsaken sky! And that was an abomination. Surfacers go to a dream-world every night, and their dreams are created and shaped by spirits and demons, or so I've been told. We dwarves resist magic, thank the Ancestors, but before becoming a Warden, I never knew what a dream was! We sleep like the stone! But I have been to the Fade. Twice. I have seen how terrible the spirits who rule there are.

It's hard to explain, but my friend Dalyen told me that in the Fade, everything that exists is nothing more than the expression of a thought. You aren't really there, you only think you are. Your body is still on the ground. You only look the way you do because you think you do. There's a chair sitting there because a demon or spirit willed it into being, or because you yourself think a chair should go there. Your own will is all that is real, and even it can be destroyed. Should you be consumed in the Fade, it's exactly the same as your will being devoured by a demon and they take possession of your body.

How all surfacers don't make deals with these demons in their dreams each night, dreaming of the future, of past regrets, or even of things they wish they have but cannot attain, I will never know. I was told that a mages power naturally draws a demon, but demons also possess trees. I conversed with an oak tree that rhymed, if the people of Orzammar can imagine THAT, but it's true. I've seen non-mages possessed by these foul creatures the same as any mage. It's arguable I've personally seen more non-mages possessed than mages. Trees, the dead, Shade's who actually don't possess anything, again according to Daylen, a wolf that in turn created werewolves. I've seen templars, men and women who fight mages, also get enthralled by the demons. I've seen a powerful Warden-Commander who wasn't a mage get possessed by a demon when the veil was torn, and then lived for centuries.

Should I ever encounter a spirit or demon outside the Fade, the thing to do is kill it as quickly as possible. I've never personally seen a possessed dwarf, and by the ancestors I don't want to be the first!

I have received a letter from King Alistair explaining the templars have left the chantry and are now hunting mages openly. The templars are dependent on Lyrium, and the mages themselves also require lyrium, so I must look to the protection of the surface dwarves and members of the merchant caste who handle trade. I expect they'll both come to Orzammar with expectations of support. I also expect they'll both become even more desperate for lyrium if the war extends itself.

Desperate enough to maybe attack Orzammar.

I
no intention of allowing any dwarf experience the horror an abomination can unleash. Neither do I want the surfacers put at risk of bringing their surfacer ideas here. I may just close the doors of Orzammar entirely if their demands grow unreasonable. But we need the trade with the surface, and we need aid with the darkspawn.

If they want our lyrium, they can come earn it in the Deep Roads. If they do not want that, then they can have their surface problems stay on the surface.

We in Orzammar want nothing to do with magic, the templars Maker who abandoned them twice, or any of the problems that come with it.

The Fade is a realm best left untouched. As the only ones not connected, it is best if we stay as far away as we possibly can.

Thorin Aedeucan

Paragon, Warden-Commander of Orzammar.


Two different views as close to the perspective of two wardens in the way I roleplayed their personalities. I hope this is considered to be remaining on topic and also encourages more discussion.


I thought that was very well-written, Dragonflight! Two interesting and different perspectives from a mage and a dwarven Warden.

#647
Dave of Canada

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages

eluvianix wrote...

I would think I have a little more perspective on that than you ever would. So I suggest you back down on that front. 


It's still compeletly irrelevant.

#648
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I would think I have a little more perspective on that than you ever would. So I suggest you back down on that front. 

Being black does not give your more perspective over this issue because the various times in human history where one group was discriminated against (blacks don't have the monopoly on that) can't be compared to the "discrimination" mages suffers because the differences between ethnic groups in our real world are (mostly) superficial and irrelevant in any practical sense whereas the differences between mages and non-mages are quite obvious and extremely dangerous due to mages having the capability to make others explode from the inside out with their minds. Therefore, what might be unjustifiable in our world migth just be justified in Thedas.

And honestly, how would you even know you have more perspective than Lotion? As far as you know, he is a christian in Egypt or a muslim in Burma and thus quite knowledgeable about persecution.


Fair enough. Your observation rings true. I got a tiny bit heated over it. I apologize Lotion. But my original point, that the two situations are similar, is still what I believe. I agree that we can't really "compare" because magic is real in Thedas, and not in our reality (hopefully someday I would be proven wrong Posted Image). But since our realities are so different, then the best way we can understand Thedas is to compare it to situations in our world.

#649
dragonflight288

dragonflight288
  • Members
  • 8 852 messages

I thought that was very well-written, Dragonflight! Two interesting and different perspectives from a mage and a dwarven Warden.


Thanks! I had a lot of fun writing them.

#650
dragonflight288

dragonflight288
  • Members
  • 8 852 messages

Ieldra2 wrote...

@dragonflight:
Nice write-up. Definitely in the spirit of this thread - since you expressed concerns. If I may point out a little oddity: it is decidedly ironic for Daylen to speak about "doing his job in peace" when his job is to kill darkspawn and he mentions this in the same sentence. I suggest a change of phrasing.


Nah, it was meant to be that way. He was referring to the interference of the chantry and the templars and how there have been some rather worrying precedents set quite recently in the canon.