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[Herr Uhl]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Who else could appoint an Inquisitor?

The Inquisition I suppose.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...
For story reasons, the templars can't possibly win. And the only way to end the cycle in any case is to stop them for good, by whatever means are necessary; if there are other ways to keep the peace between mages and the rest of society, fine, but the templars must fall.

You mean "for my personal reasons of makign my fanfic a reality".
The tamplars CAN win. There is absolutely nothing preventing the story from going down that route.

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
For story reasons, the templars can't possibly win. And the only way to end the cycle in any case is to stop them for good, by whatever means are necessary; if there are other ways to keep the peace between mages and the rest of society, fine, but the templars must fall.

You mean "for my personal reasons of makign my fanfic a reality".
The tamplars CAN win. There is absolutely nothing preventing the story from going down that route.

Several things do, though I don't expect you to understand them. However:

-If the story returns to the status quo, this whole thing has been pointless.
-The templars have been set up as villains already, and the only sympathetic one in Asunder left the Order.
-Mages are more palatable to the widest audience, and templars are not so, like Cerberus.
-Again, a return to the status quo would be very much against the themes of violent change within the story thus far.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I agree that the current templar/mage system is far from ideal for mages. There is an other side of mages, though. Mages behave very violently. They seem to use blood magic whenever they think force is needed. The only exception is Mage Hawke, who couldn't raise a dead rabbit if his/her life depended on it.

Mage Hawke is smarter, though. Instead of fighting the system he/she joins it. It doesn't even matter how. Both routes, either supporting the mages or the templars, lead to the same result: Mage Hawke has more influence than other mages. The power is not absolute, but some is certainly there. If mages were smart, they should follow Mage Hawke's example and try to occupy more influential positions in a similar fashion. That would maybe lead to a more long term change in their favor, or if they had bad intentions they could use that to gain power in a way that's more efficient than throwing demons around.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 juillet 2013 - 01:27 .

[Ieldra]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I agree that the current templar/mage system is far from ideal for mages. There is an other side of mages, though. Mages behave very violently. They seem to use blood magic whenever they think force is needed. The only exception is Mage Hawke, who couldn't raise a dead rabbit if his/her life depended on it.

Mage Hawke is smarter, though. Instead of fighting the system he/she joins it. It doesn't even matter how. Both routes, either supporting the mages or the templars, lead to the same result: Mage Hawke has more influence than other mages. The power is not absolute, but some is certainly there. If mages were smart, they should follow Mage Hawke's example and try to occupy more influential positions in a similar fashion. That would maybe lead to a more long term change in their favor, or if they had bad intentions they could use that to gain power in a way that's more efficient than throwing demons around.

The problem there is that mage Hawke is an anomaly which shouldn't exist according to the Chantry's rules: a mage living outside a Circle, technically an apostate, and occupying a politically influential position on top of it. That sets a precedent which undermines the whole system. Not that I think that's bad, mind you, but I can't see this as a catalyst for gradual change.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 juillet 2013 - 01:34 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I agree that the current templar/mage system is far from ideal for mages. There is an other side of mages, though. Mages behave very violently. They seem to use blood magic whenever they think force is needed. The only exception is Mage Hawke, who couldn't raise a dead rabbit if his/her life depended on it.

Mage Hawke is smarter, though. Instead of fighting the system he/she joins it. It doesn't even matter how. Both routes, either supporting the mages or the templars, lead to the same result: Mage Hawke has more influence than other mages. The power is not absolute, but some is certainly there. If mages were smart, they should follow Mage Hawke's example and try to occupy more influential positions in a similar fashion. That would maybe lead to a more long term change in their favor, or if they had bad intentions they could use that to gain power in a way that's more efficient than throwing demons around.

The problem there is that mage Hawke is an anomaly which shouldn't exist according to the Chantry's rules: a mage living outside a Circle, technically an apostate, and occupying a politically influential position on top of it. That sets a precedent which undermines the whole system. Not that I think that's bad, mind you, but I can't see this as a catalyst for gradual change.

There seem to be a lot of anomalies, known as apostates. One encounters dozens of them. All behave pretty dumb.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 juillet 2013 - 01:40 .

[Iakus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Who else could appoint an Inquisitor? I'm not saying I like it, but there appear to be no alternatives. I just hope the setup - whatever it is - gives es enough freedom for roleplaying. At least the changes under the new Divine gives us the possibility to support radically changed policies.

The original Inquisition was an independant organization which only later merged with the Chantry.  Something similar could theoretically happen again.

BEsides I thought we were told that our character would not have to work for the Chantry or even approve of their policies? 

[Ieldra]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I agree that the current templar/mage system is far from ideal for mages. There is an other side of mages, though. Mages behave very violently. They seem to use blood magic whenever they think force is needed. The only exception is Mage Hawke, who couldn't raise a dead rabbit if his/her life depended on it.

Mage Hawke is smarter, though. Instead of fighting the system he/she joins it. It doesn't even matter how. Both routes, either supporting the mages or the templars, lead to the same result: Mage Hawke has more influence than other mages. The power is not absolute, but some is certainly there. If mages were smart, they should follow Mage Hawke's example and try to occupy more influential positions in a similar fashion. That would maybe lead to a more long term change in their favor, or if they had bad intentions they could use that to gain power in a way that's more efficient than throwing demons around.

The problem there is that mage Hawke is an anomaly which shouldn't exist according to the Chantry's rules: a mage living outside a Circle, technically an apostate, and occupying a politically influential position on top of it. That sets a precedent which undermines the whole system. Not that I think that's bad, mind you, but I can't see this as a catalyst for gradual change.

There seem to be a lot of anomalies, known as apostates. One encounters dozens of them.

Yes, but they all live in hiding or outside of the city, and/or nobody knows they're mages. IIRC Hawke's the only one living openly in the city as a mage.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 juillet 2013 - 01:41 .

[Iakus]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...
 
[/quote]
Several things do, though I don't expect you to understand them. However:

-If the story returns to the status quo, this whole thing has been pointless.
-The templars have been set up as villains already, and the only sympathetic one in Asunder left the Order.
-Mages are more palatable to the widest audience, and templars are not so, like Cerberus.
-Again, a return to the status quo would be very much against the themes of violent change within the story thus far.
[/quote]

Agree with the first point.

Second point is highly debatable.  Although "oppressed mages" have likely resonated more strongly than the "save us from teh abuses of magic" in the past.  I do not believe this was intentional.  Mages and templars are supposed to both have valid points as well as those who abuse thier power.

Besides, didn't you say the "only sympathetic one" only became "good" because she left the templars? 

3rd point may be true, but again, was likely an unintended consequence of making the mages seem too sympathetic and the templasrs too much like ogres (well, not the darkspawn kind, but you know what I mean), especially in DA2.

4th point true.  However, this does not mean there is no room for compromise, to "find another way" 

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yes, but they all live in hiding or outside of the city. IIRC Hawke's the only one living openly in the city as a mage.

Inside the city you can find them as well. They seem to be everywhere. There must be an awful lot of them, because you can buy mage gear everywhere in the open. Merchants even sell specialized blood mage gear. If there wasn't a market for it then these merchants would not exist.  You can even find such a merchant just outside of Meredith's headquarters.

The point is that they are not acting rationally. If they want to gain influence, either good or evil, then throwing demons around is not the way to go about it. That certainly won't end the circle system.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 juillet 2013 - 01:51 .

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
For story reasons, the templars can't possibly win. And the only way to end the cycle in any case is to stop them for good, by whatever means are necessary; if there are other ways to keep the peace between mages and the rest of society, fine, but the templars must fall.

You mean "for my personal reasons of makign my fanfic a reality".
The tamplars CAN win. There is absolutely nothing preventing the story from going down that route.

Several things do, though I don't expect you to understand them. However:

-If the story returns to the status quo, this whole thing has been pointless.
-The templars have been set up as villains already, and the only sympathetic one in Asunder left the Order.
-Mages are more palatable to the widest audience, and templars are not so, like Cerberus.
-Again, a return to the status quo would be very much against the themes of violent change within the story thus far.

This is all correct - yet it may turn out that mages are responsible for the whole "fade tear" thing and the dragons and demons on the loose. Then those mages would eclipse Lambert's faction with their villainy. With Lambert ending up possessed, we'd have two extremist factions with the moderates of both sides caught in the middle. I'm not seeing the status quo returning, but neither do I see a potential for templars to be villains in excess of the mages' potential.

[Xilizhra]

This is all correct - yet it may turn out that mages are responsible for the whole "fade tear" thing and the dragons and demons on the loose. Then those mages would eclipse Lambert's faction with their villainy. With Lambert ending up possessed, we'd have two extremist factions with the moderates of both sides caught in the middle. I'm not seeing the status quo returning, but neither do I see a potential for templars to be villains in excess of the mages' potential.

It's possible, but consider that the mages were said to have been presented badly in DA2 and they were going to make it more moderate for DAI. That wouldn't be the way to do it, and it strikes me as far more likely that the Fade tear is caused by someone unaffiliated whom all Inquisitors will wind up fighting.

[Sjpelke]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yes, but they all live in hiding or outside of the city. IIRC Hawke's the only one living openly in the city as a mage.

Inside the city you can find them as well. They seem to be everywhere. There must be an awful lot of them, because you can buy mage gear everywhere in the open. Merchants even sell specialized blood mage gear. If there wasn't a market for it then these merchants would not exist.  You can even find such a merchant just outside of Meredith's headquarters.

The point is that they are not acting rationally. If they want to gain influence, either good or evil, then throwing demons around is not the way to go about it. That certainly won't end the circle system.

Agree with your reasoning.

Using magic is related to the fade, keeping the demons out by not letting them control the mage involved. If emotions overtake or the mages will is not strong enough the demon can take over.

Mages who think that they can control the demon by using it lost out at some point for as far as I have seen in the game.

[MWImexico]

MWImexico wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Lambert wanted to make Pharamond Tranquil, which is arguably worse.

There's no arguably about it. Pharamond begged to be killed instead. I wonder how many people realize how bad a situation has to be that death actually seems like the better alternative. Tranquility is like depression on crack. Also if a Tranquil really, really couldn't feel anything they wouldn't rather die than return to it. They'd just be like "meh."

Ironically, despite his despair, Pharamond did not become an abomination (after that). Was he really psychologically weak, as it was claimed?

Ok, I think I understand now, having re-read some passages from "Asunder". Pharamond had already failed his test, somehow, when he was confronted to a demon while he was doing his research on the cancellation of Tranquility. It's as if he had failed his Harrowing. I think the interesting point to remember is that he was possessed by a demon of pride, and so, it's probably only this vice that could have tempted him, again, and made him become an abomination. This could explain why, right before he died, Pharamond did not turned suddenly into an abomination driven by despair/rage/fear/... as the daughter of Trask did, for example.

Modifié par MWImexico, 01 juillet 2013 - 02:33 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

TsadeeHekate wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yes, but they all live in hiding or outside of the city. IIRC Hawke's the only one living openly in the city as a mage.

Inside the city you can find them as well. They seem to be everywhere. There must be an awful lot of them, because you can buy mage gear everywhere in the open. Merchants even sell specialized blood mage gear. If there wasn't a market for it then these merchants would not exist.  You can even find such a merchant just outside of Meredith's headquarters.

The point is that they are not acting rationally. If they want to gain influence, either good or evil, then throwing demons around is not the way to go about it. That certainly won't end the circle system.

Agree with your reasoning.

Using magic is related to the fade, keeping the demons out by not letting them control the mage involved. If emotions overtake or the mages will is not strong enough the demon can take over.

Mages who think that they can control the demon by using it lost out at some point for as far as I have seen in the game.

Yup. It is also very hard to find mages outside the circle who are not blood mages. Even Anders and Wynne were possessed. Wynne being a rare example of a demon which was supposed to be good. Most others either used blood magic or when they didn't they surprised you with something a harvester would be scared of: Orsino wasn't exactly reliable after all.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 juillet 2013 - 02:37 .

[Ieldra]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yes, but they all live in hiding or outside of the city. IIRC Hawke's the only one living openly in the city as a mage.

Inside the city you can find them as well. They seem to be everywhere. There must be an awful lot of them, because you can buy mage gear everywhere in the open. Merchants even sell specialized blood mage gear. If there wasn't a market for it then these merchants would not exist.  You can even find such a merchant just outside of Meredith's headquarters.

The point is that they are not acting rationally. If they want to gain influence, either good or evil, then throwing demons around is not the way to go about it. That certainly won't end the circle system.

I only count story-relevant mages. The others are gameplay contrivances, just like the fact that shops exist who sell blood-mage gear. With DA2's excellently designed and well story-intregated combat (I hope you can see the sarcasm oozing out of that) I've killed enough mages in the city to depopulate its Circle twice over.

I agree those who do exist appear to be all insane, but Bioware has already admitted that was a presentation failure.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 juillet 2013 - 02:52 .

[Sjpelke]

@ AngryFrozenWater

Deities in the fade are depicted 'good' or 'bad' in how they act towards the beings outside their realm by those outside the fade.

Anders and Wynne shared their body and mind with a deity that basically has no intention to take over his 'host'. Becoming a union, their emotions (the deities inside Anders and Wynne had 'good' basic qualities) got influenced by the emotions/characteristics of the one they merged with.

The way I see it demons like the desire demon 'feed' of their host but do not merge emotionally with them. They get inside their mind but keep their own emotion, slowly overtaking the mind of their host. Justice in Anders case became influenced by Anders and his unbias straight forward thinking got blurred and went into a destructive rage as time progressed.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yes, but they all live in hiding or outside of the city. IIRC Hawke's the only one living openly in the city as a mage.

Inside the city you can find them as well. They seem to be everywhere. There must be an awful lot of them, because you can buy mage gear everywhere in the open. Merchants even sell specialized blood mage gear. If there wasn't a market for it then these merchants would not exist.  You can even find such a merchant just outside of Meredith's headquarters.

The point is that they are not acting rationally. If they want to gain influence, either good or evil, then throwing demons around is not the way to go about it. That certainly won't end the circle system.

I only count story-relevant mages. The others are gameplay contrivances, just like the fact that shops exist who sell blood-mage gear. With DA2's excellently designed and well story-intregated combat (I hope you can see the sarcasm oozing out of that) I've killed enough mages in the city to depopulate its Circle twice over.

I agree those who do exist appear to be all insane, but Bioware has already admitted that was a presentation failure.

First it was that Mage Hawke was an exception. Which he/she wasn't, because there are mages everywhere outside the circle. Then you couldn't find mages in town. Of course there are plenty everywhere. Now you only count mages relevant to the story? I am sorry. Again, I can't go for that. The ones we encounter in DA2 all behave irrationally, whether they are part of the main story or not. *mumbles something about Orsino*

If they appear to be insane, like you admit, then DA:I must change their image radically. Your whole initial post doesn't make much sense when nearly all mages in DA2 are used as canon fodder.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 juillet 2013 - 04:04 .

[Silfren]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

"Asunder" didn't make the point about templars as such - after all, Evangeline is a templar and I don't think she'd support unlimited freedom for mages rather than trying to find new solutions - but certainly about Lambert's faction which appears to be the dominant one. Iagree though, that this is not the complete picture, given that we're going to play an Inquisitor, almost certainly Chantry-appointed. The role of "Asunder" may be to make it plausible for the Divine to appoint a mage Inquisitor as well as a templar one. 

I hope not. 

I agree. I have no interest in working for the Divine or the Andrastian Chantry. And all Asunder demonstrated is that the current Divine is willing to give the mages a few more privileges to keep the Circles under Chantry control. Justina can find someone else to corral the mages under the Chantry's boot. A thousand years of Chantry instituted slavery has shown me that the Chantry of Andraste should come to an end.

The original Inquisition was an independent group that only joined the Chantry later.  What we knows as the Seekers evolved from them, right? 

Who knows if Bioware will take things this route, but it's possible that this new Inquisition could be a new one, entirely independent of the Chantry.  I think that kind of background would necessitate having some important figures in the wings, co-opting the name of the Inquisition in order to try and convey a message...and would practically require certain history-savvy characters (Brother Genitivi) to be involved.

May be a little more sophisticated and nuanced than the Devs have time to write it, especially if they wrote in some recurring conflict between this sort of an Inquisition and the Seekers themselves.  But since we're told now that the Inquisition is supposed to be this entire independent organization that is all about delivering justice to everyone in equal measure, it would fit the lore, basically.

[MWImexico]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
 *mumbles something about Orsino*

I guess there is a difference between not be able to resist to the proposition of a demon (because the mage has a weakness on that particular spot) and go willingly / search for a demon and ask him something.

-During the Harrowing it's the resistence of the mage who is tested.

-Orsino became an abomination because he chose to.

For the moment, this is the way I understand all this mess.

[Ieldra]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yes, but they all live in hiding or outside of the city. IIRC Hawke's the only one living openly in the city as a mage.

Inside the city you can find them as well. They seem to be everywhere. There must be an awful lot of them, because you can buy mage gear everywhere in the open. Merchants even sell specialized blood mage gear. If there wasn't a market for it then these merchants would not exist.  You can even find such a merchant just outside of Meredith's headquarters.

The point is that they are not acting rationally. If they want to gain influence, either good or evil, then throwing demons around is not the way to go about it. That certainly won't end the circle system.

I only count story-relevant mages. The others are gameplay contrivances, just like the fact that shops exist who sell blood-mage gear. With DA2's excellently designed and well story-intregated combat (I hope you can see the sarcasm oozing out of that) I've killed enough mages in the city to depopulate its Circle twice over.

I agree those who do exist appear to be all insane, but Bioware has already admitted that was a presentation failure.

First it was that Mage Hawke was an exception. Which he/she wasn't, because there are mages everywhere outside the circle. Then you couldn't find mages in town. Of course there are plenty everywhere. Now you only count mages relevant to the story? I am sorry. Again, I can't go for that. The ones we encounter in DA2 all behave irrationally, whether they are part of the main story or not. *mumbles something about Orsino*

If they appear to be insane, like you admit, then DA:I must change their image radically. Your whole initial post doesn't make much sense when nearly all mages in DA2 are used as canon fodder.

How many mages are living openly in Kirkwall, meaning they have a residence there outside the Circle and don't live in hiding like Anders and don't hide their magical talent like Gaspard? Grace's group were escaped from the Circle, those mages you hunt in Act 3's "On the Loose" were escaped from the Circle, Quentin lived in hiding, Orsino lived in the Circle etc.. etc... I guess you could count Merrill, or even Danarius though he's probably have special dispensation as a foreign dignitary. The point is that the templars left Hawke in peace even though he lived openly in the city as a citizen, made no attempt to hide from them, nor any attempt to hide he was a mage. That's the anomaly.

Anyway I don't know which point you're trying to make. I agree that the presentation of mages in DA2 was abysmal and Bioware admitted it could've been better as well, and I fully expect things to improve in DAI. It's just that most of the mages we see, i.e. those we fight, don't count because they're irrelevant combat trash. Unlike in DAO, DA2's developers poured mages all over the city because "there must be combat everywhere, and there must be variable enemies, and to hell with world consistency". I think I have sufficient reason not to count the combat trash mages just like I don't count the thousands of bandits and demons I killed for anything related to story or worldbuilding.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 juillet 2013 - 08:54 .

[Steelcan]

iakus wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Who else could appoint an Inquisitor? I'm not saying I like it, but there appear to be no alternatives. I just hope the setup - whatever it is - gives es enough freedom for roleplaying. At least the changes under the new Divine gives us the possibility to support radically changed policies.

The original Inquisition was an independant organization which only later merged with the Chantry.  Something similar could theoretically happen again.

BEsides I thought we were told that our character would not have to work for the Chantry or even approve of their policies? 

We were also told we could role-play an anti-Alliance Shepard in ME3

[LobselVith8]

Silfren wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I agree. I have no interest in working for the Divine or the Andrastian Chantry. And all Asunder demonstrated is that the current Divine is willing to give the mages a few more privileges to keep the Circles under Chantry control. Justina can find someone else to corral the mages under the Chantry's boot. A thousand years of Chantry instituted slavery has shown me that the Chantry of Andraste should come to an end.

The original Inquisition was an independent group that only joined the Chantry later.  What we knows as the Seekers evolved from them, right? 

Who knows if Bioware will take things this route, but it's possible that this new Inquisition could be a new one, entirely independent of the Chantry.  I think that kind of background would necessitate having some important figures in the wings, co-opting the name of the Inquisition in order to try and convey a message...and would practically require certain history-savvy characters (Brother Genitivi) to be involved.

An independent organization would be, in my opinion, better than one serving under the auspicies of the Chantry of Andraste or Divine Justina V.

Silfren wrote...

May be a little more sophisticated and nuanced than the Devs have time to write it, especially if they wrote in some recurring conflict between this sort of an Inquisition and the Seekers themselves.  But since we're told now that the Inquisition is supposed to be this entire independent organization that is all about delivering justice to everyone in equal measure, it would fit the lore, basically. 

I'm curious as to how a mage protagonist is going to roam around Thedas freely, without being an automatic target of the Seekers of Truth or the Order of Templars (at least Lambert's faction). I think a mage protagonist with power and authority is going to draw their immediate attention.

[Silfren]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I agree. I have no interest in working for the Divine or the Andrastian Chantry. And all Asunder demonstrated is that the current Divine is willing to give the mages a few more privileges to keep the Circles under Chantry control. Justina can find someone else to corral the mages under the Chantry's boot. A thousand years of Chantry instituted slavery has shown me that the Chantry of Andraste should come to an end.

The original Inquisition was an independent group that only joined the Chantry later.  What we knows as the Seekers evolved from them, right? 

Who knows if Bioware will take things this route, but it's possible that this new Inquisition could be a new one, entirely independent of the Chantry.  I think that kind of background would necessitate having some important figures in the wings, co-opting the name of the Inquisition in order to try and convey a message...and would practically require certain history-savvy characters (Brother Genitivi) to be involved.

An independent organization would be, in my opinion, better than one serving under the auspicies of the Chantry of Andraste or Divine Justina V.

Silfren wrote...

May be a little more sophisticated and nuanced than the Devs have time to write it, especially if they wrote in some recurring conflict between this sort of an Inquisition and the Seekers themselves.  But since we're told now that the Inquisition is supposed to be this entire independent organization that is all about delivering justice to everyone in equal measure, it would fit the lore, basically. 

I'm curious as to how a mage protagonist is going to roam around Thedas freely, without being an automatic target of the Seekers of Truth or the Order of Templars (at least Lambert's faction). I think a mage protagonist with power and authority is going to draw their immediate attention.

Why not?  Wasn't a problem for Hawke. 

Snarkiness aside, good question.  Though perhaps not being able to roam around freely will be part of the story?  Maybe we'll have to deal with periodic random encounters because Seekers or rogue Templars are hunting us?  Or maybe part of our story will be building up enough power and influence that any Seekers or templars would have a hard time just assassinating us out of hand, so they'd be forced to deal with a Mage PC whether they liked it or not.

You know that Flemeth is going to save our *ss at least once. 

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

First it was that Mage Hawke was an exception. Which he/she wasn't, because there are mages everywhere outside the circle. Then you couldn't find mages in town. Of course there are plenty everywhere. Now you only count mages relevant to the story? I am sorry. Again, I can't go for that. The ones we encounter in DA2 all behave irrationally, whether they are part of the main story or not. *mumbles something about Orsino*

If they appear to be insane, like you admit, then DA:I must change their image radically. Your whole initial post doesn't make much sense when nearly all mages in DA2 are used as canon fodder.

How many mages are living openly in Kirkwall, meaning they have a residence there outside the Circle and don't live in hiding like Anders and don't hide their magical talent like Gaspard? Grace's group were escaped from the Circle, those mages you hunt in Act 3's "On the Loose" were escaped from the Circle, Quentin lived in hiding, Orsino lived in the Circle etc.. etc... I guess you could count Merrill, or even Danarius though he's probably have special dispensation as a foreign dignitary. The point is that the templars left Hawke in peace even though he lived openly in the city as a citizen, made no attempt to hide from them, nor any attempt to hide he was a mage. That's the anomaly.

Anyway I don't know which point you're trying to make. I agree that the presentation of mages in DA2 was abysmal and Bioware admitted it could've been better as well, and I fully expect things to improve in DAI. It's just that most of the mages we see, i.e. those we fight, don't count because they're irrelevant combat trash. Unlike in DAO, DA2's developers poured mages all over the city because "there must be combat everywhere, and there must be variable enemies, and to hell with world consistency". I think I have sufficient reason not to count the combat trash mages just like I don't count the thousands of bandits and demons I killed for anything related to story or worldbuilding.

Look around Kirkwall the next time you are there. From public places like the Blooming Rose to a random house you'll enter. Heck, you find them in the middle of the street attacking you day and night.

My point? I am not sure what your point is. I am saying that the mages who you'll meet wherever you go need to clean up their act. At best it'll improve their situation or their power. And you try to deny that they really are a problem. Mages in Krikwall? Nah? Not really. A BW booboo. That's what you can come up with. Ghehe.

They are indeed very problematic. You even call them insane, when I tried to be careful before and dropped the term "irrational" to describe them. So what is it? Are they good or bad folk?

Hawke encounters them everywhere. Inside and outside of the city. And they all are trying to kill Hawke - mage or not. One even kills Hawke's mother. You gotta love Quentin. And Orsino cannot be bothered to do anything about it. He goes further than that and betrays Hawke, even when Mage Hawke is siding with him. At least Huon's hairdo and Tarohne were funny. But, nooo. Let's be friendly to the lovely mages. Ghehe.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 02 juillet 2013 - 02:31 .