1656 réponses à ce sujet

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
So you want mages to sacrafice a lot but mundanes should not?  In thedas your all in the same boat and if people do not like to row you throw from that boat. Mundanes right now a parasite to the mages. So the war the mages started is justified.

If i was a mage why should i lock myself up for a people who is stupid weak and cowardly to learn to defend themselves against abominations. I would say **** off and kill **** mundane who believes i should be in some tower.

Mundanes are taking risk just by letting mages live.

And thus by the same logic I ask why should I risk my family and town for some crazy, power-hungry, stupid mage?
I would say f*** you and kill *** mage who belives he should be out of the tower.

In this world mundanes cannot survive without mages. Yet the the chantry or the templars give the mages any reason to stay loyal to the current chantry system. Even if the mundanes survive the darkspawn or qunuari will kill millions.

And yes you must take a risk. become a spirit warrior or reaver. their are worse dangers in the world of thedas then an abomination. you must be a masochist to just remain weak and feeble. so i will tell you this: if your family was killed by an abomination then you have failed as much as the mage.

People cannot "just become a reaver of spirit warrior"...................

and now they will get slaughterd by demons and dragons. the chantry created this weakness and this is the outcome. you are living in a world where humans are not on top of the food chain and yet you want to remain weak and feeble?

Modifié par DKJaigen, 09 juillet 2013 - 05:17 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The armies and Templars of Thedas will work to prevent that. Mages are not particularly well-suited to fight abominations and demons, lorewise they are actuallya liability to bring along to a fight agaisnt a demon or abomination. So this demonic tide is for the Templars and armies of Thedas to stem.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The armies and Templars of Thedas will work to prevent that. Mages are not particularly well-suited to fight abominations and demons, lorewise they are actuallya liability to bring along to a fight agaisnt a demon or abomination. So this demonic tide is for the Templars and armies of Thedas to stem.

they will fail.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I doubt that, since.. you know.. That would put an end to the franchise..

[MWImexico]

DKJaigen wrote...

And the mundanes should not carry that burden as well? its so easily to sacrafice another people isnt it?

But how? It's important/vital for the mage to be trained. This has nothing to do with selfishness, it's a simple fact, the survival of the mage and the people around him depend of this. Bethany is an exemple, she is ok because she was well trained, Connor was not because he wasn't.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I doubt that, since.. you know.. That would put an end to the franchise..

Nope the mundanes will need to learn to swim or they sink. but very outdated concepts of magic will forever dissapear. the templars will dissapear under a horde of demons. the fact is that you and the rest of the templar supporters are holding on to present day morals just as much as the pro mages. but you do not live in a world where extermination of the human race is a possibility, and yet we see time and time again that teh chantry and the templars embrace ignorance completely ignoring darkspawn demons and dragons.

The mundanes are paying dearly for the stupidity of the templars and the chantry.  Can the templars protect the people from dragons? demons? or darkspawn? the answer is no. I have said that ignorance is not a strenght.

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I doubt that, since.. you know.. That would put an end to the franchise..

Nope the mundanes will need to learn to swim or they sink. but very outdated concepts of magic will forever dissapear. the templars will dissapear under a horde of demons. the fact is that you and the rest of the templar supporters are holding on to present day morals just as much as the pro mages. but you do not live in a world where extermination of the human race is a possibility, and yet we see time and time again that teh chantry and the templars embrace ignorance completely ignoring darkspawn demons and dragons.

The mundanes are paying dearly for the stupidity of the templars and the chantry.  Can the templars protect the people from dragons? demons? or darkspawn? the answer is no. I have said that ignorance is not a strenght.

When exactly have the Chantry ever ignored demons and Darkspawn? Last I checked the Chantry have supported the Grey Wardens since pretty much their inception, and they acknowledge the existance of demons, and even try to prevent demon incursions into Thedas. So you are dead on wrong, again, on those.
And since Dragons are a recent re-addition to the world of Thedas, you can't really count on the Chantry ,or anyone else for that matter, to know the true purpose of dragons.

And yes.... The extermination of every mundane in Thedas, would be equal to the extermination of the franchise as a whole... And there are no better suited army to handle demon incursions than the Templars. So the odds for the Templars to succeed in stopping the demons, are far better than the mages, who are more likely to succumb to the demons.

[DKJaigen]

MWImexico wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

And the mundanes should not carry that burden as well? its so easily to sacrafice another people isnt it?

But how? It's important/vital for the mage to be trained. This has nothing to do with selfishness, it's a simple fact, the survival of the mage and the people around him depend of this. Bethany is an exemple, she is ok because she was well trained, Connor was not because he wasn't.

Oh training is vital and mandatory from my point of view. But after that they should do whatever they plz. right now the chantry keeps mages locked up into a single tower with few personal rights and yet are expected to kill for the chantry when the situation demands. Why would a mage feel obligted to help the mundanes? right now their is no real reason for the mages to aid the mundanes because the mundanes do nothing for them in return.

And the second part is even wors. mundanes in thedas chose to be weak and do not wish to carry and burden yet demand that mages should carry it for them. But if the mages would ever say: screw this **** im out of here. they will  die enmass. by giving the monopoly of magic to the mages the mundanes have put themselves in a very bad position.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I doubt that, since.. you know.. That would put an end to the franchise..

Nope the mundanes will need to learn to swim or they sink. but very outdated concepts of magic will forever dissapear. the templars will dissapear under a horde of demons. the fact is that you and the rest of the templar supporters are holding on to present day morals just as much as the pro mages. but you do not live in a world where extermination of the human race is a possibility, and yet we see time and time again that teh chantry and the templars embrace ignorance completely ignoring darkspawn demons and dragons.

The mundanes are paying dearly for the stupidity of the templars and the chantry.  Can the templars protect the people from dragons? demons? or darkspawn? the answer is no. I have said that ignorance is not a strenght.

When exactly have the Chantry ever ignored demons and Darkspawn? Last I checked the Chantry have supported the Grey Wardens since pretty much their inception, and they acknowledge the existance of demons, and even try to prevent demon incursions into Thedas. So you are dead on wrong, again, on those.
And since Dragons are a recent re-addition to the world of Thedas, you can't really count on the Chantry ,or anyone else for that matter, to know the true purpose of dragons.

And yes.... The extermination of every mundane in Thedas, would be equal to the extermination of the franchise as a whole... And there are no better suited army to handle demon incursions than the Templars. So the odds for the Templars to succeed in stopping the demons, are far better than the mages, who are more likely to succumb to the demons.

I have not seen a single instance that the chantry aids the grey wardens or the dwarfs except during blights. the acknowledge the demons but do nothing about them and dragons have been around for centuries yet they didnt bother to research suh dangerous creators.

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

MWImexico wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

And the mundanes should not carry that burden as well? its so easily to sacrafice another people isnt it?

But how? It's important/vital for the mage to be trained. This has nothing to do with selfishness, it's a simple fact, the survival of the mage and the people around him depend of this. Bethany is an exemple, she is ok because she was well trained, Connor was not because he wasn't.

Oh training is vital and mandatory from my point of view. But after that they should do whatever they plz. right now the chantry keeps mages locked up into a single tower with few personal rights and yet are expected to kill for the chantry when the situation demands. Why would a mage feel obligted to help the mundanes? right now their is no real reason for the mages to aid the mundanes because the mundanes do nothing for them in return.

And the second part is even wors. mundanes in thedas chose to be weak and do not wish to carry and burden yet demand that mages should carry it for them. But if the mages would ever say: screw this **** im out of here. they will  die enmass. by giving the monopoly of magic to the mages the mundanes have put themselves in a very bad position.

What are you even talking about? The Chantry does NOT force the mages to fight for them. The Circle ask for volunteers to join the Chantry forces whenveer there is a need. The only ones who force the mages to fight, are the Grey Wardens.
And the mundanes do not chose to be "weak". Some of them chose not to be warriors and soldiers, and isntead provide other essential supplies. Like you know..... Food, clothes, smithies, and other such trivial stuff.
Pretty much EXACTLY like how not all mages train to become battle mages, and some of them are so weak they can't light a candle without serious strain to themselves....

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I doubt that, since.. you know.. That would put an end to the franchise..

Nope the mundanes will need to learn to swim or they sink. but very outdated concepts of magic will forever dissapear. the templars will dissapear under a horde of demons. the fact is that you and the rest of the templar supporters are holding on to present day morals just as much as the pro mages. but you do not live in a world where extermination of the human race is a possibility, and yet we see time and time again that teh chantry and the templars embrace ignorance completely ignoring darkspawn demons and dragons.

The mundanes are paying dearly for the stupidity of the templars and the chantry.  Can the templars protect the people from dragons? demons? or darkspawn? the answer is no. I have said that ignorance is not a strenght.

When exactly have the Chantry ever ignored demons and Darkspawn? Last I checked the Chantry have supported the Grey Wardens since pretty much their inception, and they acknowledge the existance of demons, and even try to prevent demon incursions into Thedas. So you are dead on wrong, again, on those.
And since Dragons are a recent re-addition to the world of Thedas, you can't really count on the Chantry ,or anyone else for that matter, to know the true purpose of dragons.

And yes.... The extermination of every mundane in Thedas, would be equal to the extermination of the franchise as a whole... And there are no better suited army to handle demon incursions than the Templars. So the odds for the Templars to succeed in stopping the demons, are far better than the mages, who are more likely to succumb to the demons.

I have not seen a single instance that the chantry aids the grey wardens or the dwarfs except during blights. the acknowledge the demons but do nothing about them and dragons have been around for centuries yet they didnt bother to research suh dangerous creators.

Why would the Chantry aid the Grey Wardens outside of Blights? And have tehy ever asked for help themselves? Same goes with the Dwarves, though there are actual reasons to aid them outside the Blights, but they wouldn't ever accept the aid...

[MisterJB]

DKJaigen wrote...
dragons?

Considering that non-magical nevarran clans have hunted dragons to near extinction, it's entirely possible to kill them with weapons and tactics, yes.

demons?

Given that demons are not impervious to steel swords and that templar dispelling abilities actually work better than spells on high tier demons, yes.

 

darkspawn?

Many Grey Wardens were Templars so, again, yes.

I have said that ignorance is not a strenght.

No one would tell, the way you go on.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm always pro-Mage, but perhaps both sides need to take a breather and calm down before we mages resort to slitting our wrists and summoning demons while theTemplars rain down Holy Smites from above

[BlueMagitek]

Don't forget Connor. ~_^

[DKJaigen]

MisterJB wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
dragons?

Considering that non-magical nevarran clans have hunted dragons to near extinction, it's entirely possible to kill them with weapons and tactics, yes.

demons?

Given that demons are not impervious to steel swords and that templar dispelling abilities actually work better than spells on high tier demons, yes.

 

darkspawn?

Many Grey Wardens were Templars so, again, yes.

I have said that ignorance is not a strenght.

No one would tell, the way you go on.

And now the dragons are back enmass. demons use bloodmagic making templars obsolete. and yes templars are recruited into the grey wardens but any support beyond that is something i dont see..

In short the mundanes are going to appear on the endangerd species list very. soon and you can thank the templars and the chantry for that.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I doubt that, since.. you know.. That would put an end to the franchise..

Nope the mundanes will need to learn to swim or they sink. but very outdated concepts of magic will forever dissapear. the templars will dissapear under a horde of demons. the fact is that you and the rest of the templar supporters are holding on to present day morals just as much as the pro mages. but you do not live in a world where extermination of the human race is a possibility, and yet we see time and time again that teh chantry and the templars embrace ignorance completely ignoring darkspawn demons and dragons.

The mundanes are paying dearly for the stupidity of the templars and the chantry.  Can the templars protect the people from dragons? demons? or darkspawn? the answer is no. I have said that ignorance is not a strenght.

When exactly have the Chantry ever ignored demons and Darkspawn? Last I checked the Chantry have supported the Grey Wardens since pretty much their inception, and they acknowledge the existance of demons, and even try to prevent demon incursions into Thedas. So you are dead on wrong, again, on those.
And since Dragons are a recent re-addition to the world of Thedas, you can't really count on the Chantry ,or anyone else for that matter, to know the true purpose of dragons.

And yes.... The extermination of every mundane in Thedas, would be equal to the extermination of the franchise as a whole... And there are no better suited army to handle demon incursions than the Templars. So the odds for the Templars to succeed in stopping the demons, are far better than the mages, who are more likely to succumb to the demons.

I have not seen a single instance that the chantry aids the grey wardens or the dwarfs except during blights. the acknowledge the demons but do nothing about them and dragons have been around for centuries yet they didnt bother to research suh dangerous creators.

Why would the Chantry aid the Grey Wardens outside of Blights? And have tehy ever asked for help themselves? Same goes with the Dwarves, though there are actual reasons to aid them outside the Blights, but they wouldn't ever accept the aid...

Oh i dont know. the fact is that the chantry is damn unconcerned about a threat that could wipe out all live is something that baffles me. should the grey wardens ever falter (and they did  in awakening against the  disciples) humanity is in some very deep ****.

[RepHope]

^What the hell do you want them to do exactly? Wave their hands and make the Darkspawn go away? They acknowledge the GW Rite of Conscription what else should they do shower them with gold? No one else does that

[RepHope]

Double post

Modifié par RepHope, 10 juillet 2013 - 12:47 .

[DPSSOC]

DKJaigen wrote...
I have not seen a single instance that the chantry aids the grey wardens or the dwarfs except during blights.

 
Nobody helps the Grey Wardens or the Dwarves except during Blights, the Grey Wardens don't even make a concentrated effort to help the Dwarves except during Blights.

DKJaigen wrote...
the acknowledge the demons but do nothing about them

 
Yes they do, we have at least one account of Templars being sent to deal with demons.  What do you expect them to do enter the Fade and wipe them all out?

DKJaigen wrote...
and dragons have been around for centuries yet they didnt bother to research suh dangerous creators.

Dragons have been around for about 30 years, prior to that they were believed to be extinct for over 200 years, why?  Because mundanes hunted them to near extinction.

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...
Oh i dont know. the fact is that the chantry is damn unconcerned about a threat that could wipe out all live is something that baffles me. should the grey wardens ever falter (and they did  in awakening against the  disciples) humanity is in some very deep ****.

When was the last time that anyone else than the Chantry offered their unconditional aid to the Grey Wardens? I sure as hell can't remember any. Matter of fact is, the Grey Wardens should be more thanadecuate at handling the Darkspawn threat on their own, outside Blights. That is the very image the Grey Wardens try to sell themselves in. So why should the Chantry go out of their way to aid the Grey Wardens, when the Wardens dont want any aid?
And the Chantry does acknowledge, and combat the threat of demons. You are indeed ignorant, if you actually think that the Chantry does nothing to combat this threat. As a matter of fact, the Templars train extensively to combat the threat of demons specifically.
And lastly, what aid can the Chantry offer the Dwarves, if the Dwarves themselves are unwilling to accept any aid?

So at the end of the day, your argument fall flat on its face. on every single point you try to make....

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 10 juillet 2013 - 03:24 .

[DKJaigen]

DPSSOC wrote...

Nobody helps the Grey Wardens or the Dwarves except during Blights, the Grey Wardens don't even make a concentrated effort to help the Dwarves except during Blights.

So chantry simply ignores the problem? yet they have the influence and wealth to greatly aid the grey wardens.

Yes they do, we have at least one account of Templars being sent to deal with demons.  What do you expect them to do enter the Fade and wipe them all out?

More or less. over the 1000 years the chantry has made no real effort to prevent demons from crossing over. The chantry only cures the symptons but never the disease it seems.

Dragons have been around for about 30 years, prior to that they were believed to be extinct for over 200 years, why?  Because mundanes hunted them to near extinction.

Nope they did not hunt them to extinction. that is your flaw. mundanes in thedas have an annoying tendency to not investigate a danger to its fullest. they all have been told about the old gods and the power of the dragons of old yet did not bother to do their research. they know that dragons can influence humans but dont even know how. and they did not know that the bulk of the dragons where just taking a nap.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
Oh i dont know. the fact is that the chantry is damn unconcerned about a threat that could wipe out all live is something that baffles me. should the grey wardens ever falter (and they did  in awakening against the  disciples) humanity is in some very deep ****.

When was the last time that anyone else than the Chantry offered their unconditional aid to the Grey Wardens? I sure as hell can't remember any. Matter of fact is, the Grey Wardens should be more thanadecuate at handling the Darkspawn threat on their own, outside Blights. That is the very image the Grey Wardens try to sell themselves in. So why should the Chantry go out of their way to aid the Grey Wardens, when the Wardens dont want any aid?
And the Chantry does acknowledge, and combat the threat of demons. You are indeed ignorant, if you actually think that the Chantry does nothing to combat this threat. As a matter of fact, the Templars train extensively to combat the threat of demons specifically.
And lastly, what aid can the Chantry offer the Dwarves, if the Dwarves themselves are unwilling to accept any aid?

So at the end of the day, your argument fall flat on its face. on every single point you try to make....

always the fault of somebody else isnt it?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Because it means that mages don't have a greater disposition towards evil than non-mages, and thus treating them as if they had - as the Chantry does - is unjustified.

HM...I could say that having demons whisper to you and haivng easily abusable powers DOES mean mages have a greater disposition towards evil.
But let's for a second ignore that and blood magic and assume they don't statisticly have a greater disposition in itself.
So what?
They are still more dangerous and their powers are still more tempting to abuse.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...
In this world mundanes cannot survive without mages.

Yes they can.

And yes you must take a risk. become a spirit warrior or reaver. their are worse dangers in the world of thedas then an abomination. you must be a masochist to just remain weak and feeble. so i will tell you this: if your family was killed by an abomination then you have failed as much as the mage.

I'd rather remain a human, thanks.
And no, I didn't fail as much as a mage.

No, I'd say I failed if I am depending so much on magic. Hence why military technology.