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[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Addressed to Jana Hawke

Mistress Hawke, I have heard of your act of defending mages in Kirkwall, a sentiment I'm sure is carried over by many, whether their opinions be good or ill. Rather than go into the nonsensical drivel I am sure you have become accustomed to, I would instead ask your opinion on the matter of magical security, that is to say, how should mages defend themselves and others from abominations and blood mages.

Despite being a mage myself, I am first and foremost a Grey Warden and will remain neutral in this escalating conflict until such a time either side forces my hand, whether through interfering the Wardens themselves or should King Alistair command it. I am the acting Arl of Amaranthine, after all, and must submit to the will of the crown on all matters not related to Darkspawn.

I have written once, many months ago about the dangers or the perception of magic by the non-magicals, or mundanes as they have been referred, and have warned about the dangers of being perceived as blood mages so soon after declaring Independence from the Chantry itself, that if the reputation is gained all that may be gained, from the eye of the common man, is a justification for the Circle's to begin with.

Mistress Hawke, allow me to reiterate, I would inquire to know where you yourself stand on the issue of magical security, especially since I have recently heard that First Enchanter Orsino had turned himself into a Harvester, and having faced one myself barely a year ago, I hope you can lay the fears of many hear and abroad to rest.

Awaiting your correspondence,

Daylen Amell, Warden Commander of Ferelden.

Spoken like a true Amell. Btw, shouldn't you have mentioned your familial relations?

Daylen doesn't care. He was separated from his family while he was too young to remember anything concrete.

He's like a Lucrosian/Libertarian mix. What helps him with fighting darkspawn, or his friendship/loyalty to King Alistair, he'll sign up with. Daylen is likely going to care about the events of Kirkwall only so far as how they'll effect the Wardens, and how he's perceived by people for being a mage, and if it'll get in the way of doing his job. If templars or seekers came by to arrest him, he'd deal with them decisively and with extreme prejudice, but he would also do the same to mages who try to coerce him into the conflict as well because he's a mage.

I like it. It is very well written.

[Senya]

It is indeed.

My Amell and Surana characters are both Aequitarians, though with a few differences:

Daylen Amell is a combination of Aequitarian and Lucrosian. He prefers to gain influence at Court, but also wants to fix the Circle by whatever means necessary.

Alim Surana is more of a peacemaker who wants to craft an agreement where the Circle is returned to what it originally was.

[dragonflight288]

Xilizhra wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Addressed to Jana Hawke

Mistress Hawke, I have heard of your act of defending mages in Kirkwall, a sentiment I'm sure is carried over by many, whether their opinions be good or ill. Rather than go into the nonsensical drivel I am sure you have become accustomed to, I would instead ask your opinion on the matter of magical security, that is to say, how should mages defend themselves and others from abominations and blood mages.

Despite being a mage myself, I am first and foremost a Grey Warden and will remain neutral in this escalating conflict until such a time either side forces my hand, whether through interfering the Wardens themselves or should King Alistair command it. I am the acting Arl of Amaranthine, after all, and must submit to the will of the crown on all matters not related to Darkspawn.

I have written once, many months ago about the dangers or the perception of magic by the non-magicals, or mundanes as they have been referred, and have warned about the dangers of being perceived as blood mages so soon after declaring Independence from the Chantry itself, that if the reputation is gained all that may be gained, from the eye of the common man, is a justification for the Circle's to begin with.

Mistress Hawke, allow me to reiterate, I would inquire to know where you yourself stand on the issue of magical security, especially since I have recently heard that First Enchanter Orsino had turned himself into a Harvester, and having faced one myself barely a year ago, I hope you can lay the fears of many hear and abroad to rest.

Awaiting your correspondence,

Daylen Amell, Warden Commander of Ferelden.

Wait, isn't Ieldra the Hero of Ferelden? Also, how would you know about the Harvester?

But anyway.

I'm glad to see that you, cousin, have avoided our family's spate of ill fortune.

The matter of magical security is a difficult one, and not one I hold all the answers to. The rest of my people are sorely torn on the subject of what to do after the war, but having lived outside the Circle all my life... I believe that it would behoove all mages to have a place where they can be trained as well as I and my sister, for those not lucky enough to have a mage parent. Such a place, too, would be a useful shelter from demonic presences. I freely admit that the Circle has filled some of those functions... but as it stood until recently, it was no safe haven, not with everything the templars were doing, and have done over the years. We must avoid complete anarchy, but the choice is not simply between complete anarchy and templar bootheels.

As for your neutrality, we hardly have the power to force you into anything. I will not contest your decision, but I will ask: what would the fate of the Grey Wardens be, if the templars were to win, expand their power and crack down on all that they might see as threats?

Regards,
Jana Hawke

Ieldra may be playing as the Warden Commander, but I can't roleplay Daylen without including his journey as a Warden, because they helped develop his views and shape his character far more than being a Circle mage.

As for the Harvester, well, Daylen knows Isabella.

To Jana Hawke

I understand your position, and can sympathize the difficulties that come with the issue. I thank you for your understanding concerning my neutrality.

As for the templars, in order for them to succeed in killing or tranquilizing mages, or at the very least, force us all back into Circles, they would have to interfere with the Wardens. As Warden-Commander, and a mage, they would have to attack us directly. I may not get involved directly, but if they act against any Warden, I'll take that as proof of provacation and hold them in violation of the treaty the Wardens have with the Chantry guaranteeing neutrality. And I would take steps to remove the threat of future interference from the templars.

As a Warden, I will do whatever is necessary.

I pray to the Maker that this will not be the case, but I stand fully prepared to act should I need.

On a side note, if you need a place that offers security for mages that is also highly defensible, I would be willing to let them settle in Soldier's Peak, a Grey Warden keep. If the mages are willing to help strengthen the veil there, I would greatly appreciate it.. I can have Grey Wardens there to help protect it, well, they are there already as it makes a perfect fortress and supply stop when traveling across Ferelden, but the mages would be safe.

Your cousin,

Daylen Amell.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 28 octobre 2013 - 07:21 .

[dragonflight288]

Thanks guys. I had a lot of fun writing it.

[Xilizhra]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Addressed to Jana Hawke

Mistress Hawke, I have heard of your act of defending mages in Kirkwall, a sentiment I'm sure is carried over by many, whether their opinions be good or ill. Rather than go into the nonsensical drivel I am sure you have become accustomed to, I would instead ask your opinion on the matter of magical security, that is to say, how should mages defend themselves and others from abominations and blood mages.

Despite being a mage myself, I am first and foremost a Grey Warden and will remain neutral in this escalating conflict until such a time either side forces my hand, whether through interfering the Wardens themselves or should King Alistair command it. I am the acting Arl of Amaranthine, after all, and must submit to the will of the crown on all matters not related to Darkspawn.

I have written once, many months ago about the dangers or the perception of magic by the non-magicals, or mundanes as they have been referred, and have warned about the dangers of being perceived as blood mages so soon after declaring Independence from the Chantry itself, that if the reputation is gained all that may be gained, from the eye of the common man, is a justification for the Circle's to begin with.

Mistress Hawke, allow me to reiterate, I would inquire to know where you yourself stand on the issue of magical security, especially since I have recently heard that First Enchanter Orsino had turned himself into a Harvester, and having faced one myself barely a year ago, I hope you can lay the fears of many hear and abroad to rest.

Awaiting your correspondence,

Daylen Amell, Warden Commander of Ferelden.

Wait, isn't Ieldra the Hero of Ferelden? Also, how would you know about the Harvester?

But anyway.

I'm glad to see that you, cousin, have avoided our family's spate of ill fortune.

The matter of magical security is a difficult one, and not one I hold all the answers to. The rest of my people are sorely torn on the subject of what to do after the war, but having lived outside the Circle all my life... I believe that it would behoove all mages to have a place where they can be trained as well as I and my sister, for those not lucky enough to have a mage parent. Such a place, too, would be a useful shelter from demonic presences. I freely admit that the Circle has filled some of those functions... but as it stood until recently, it was no safe haven, not with everything the templars were doing, and have done over the years. We must avoid complete anarchy, but the choice is not simply between complete anarchy and templar bootheels.

As for your neutrality, we hardly have the power to force you into anything. I will not contest your decision, but I will ask: what would the fate of the Grey Wardens be, if the templars were to win, expand their power and crack down on all that they might see as threats?

Regards,
Jana Hawke

Ieldra may be playing as the Warden Commander, but I can't roleplay Daylen without including his journey as a Warden, because they helped develop his views and shape his character far more than being a Circle mage.

As for the Harvester, well, Daylen knows Isabella.

To Jana Hawke

I understand your position, and can sympathize the difficulties that come with the issue. I thank you for your understanding concerning my neutrality.

As for the templars, in order for them to succeed in killing or tranquilizing mages, or at the very least, force us all back into Circles, they would have to interfere with the Wardens. As Warden-Commander, and a mage, they would have to attack us directly. I may not get involved directly, but if they act against any Warden, I'll take that as proof of provacation and hold them in violation of the treaty the Wardens have with the Chantry guaranteeing neutrality. And I would take steps to remove the threat of future interference from the templars.

As a Warden, I will do whatever is necessary.

I pray to the Maker that this will not be the case, but I stand fully prepared to act should I need.

On a side note, if you need a place that offers security for mages that is also highly defensible, I would be willing to let them settle in Soldier's Peak, a Grey Warden keep. If the mages are willing to help strengthen the veil there, I would greatly appreciate it.. I can have Grey Wardens there to help protect it, well, they are there already as it makes a perfect fortress and supply stop when traveling across Ferelden, but the mages would be safe.

Your cousin,

Daylen Amell.

And, here, there's not much left for me to say but thanking you for your offer, so I suppose this has worked out.

"All mages do not subscribe to Libertarian extremes, and neither do all
templars subscribe to the extremes their current leaders endorse.
Simply, they have first been rallied by them. Essential strategy in
Lucrosian compromise lies in enlisting skeptics. The order's inflexible
remnants can then be handled without incredible bloodshed."

"We should never weaken our own unity, and thus our chances of survival, until the templars have been beaten."

Modifié par Xilizhra, 28 octobre 2013 - 08:19 .

[Ieldra]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...
"What you do not understand is that Chantry separation and true liberation are crucially, invariably at odds. True liberation is "of the third kind". It is alien, it is Lucrosian, but it can achieve, in the end, every goal set by the Libertarian fraternity, and do so without their war cries and histrionics."

Eorlin writes:
"You could not be more wrong. Separation from the Chantry lies at the very heart of mage liberation. Perhaps this will become more obvious if I phrase it in general terms: The freedom to leave any nation, religion or other group is one of the most basic freedoms, because preventing you from leaving is the first step in your enslavement, and in fact its most defining aspect. The only people who are regularly denied that freedom are children, criminals and slaves, and only slaves are denied it permanently(*) and independently from anything they might have done do merit punishment. To accept anyone's authority to prevent mages past their apprenticeship from leaving means to accept a state of enslavement. It is not unthinkable that we co-operate with the Chantry in dealing with rogue mages and the danger of possession, but if we do that, it must be on the basis of a treaty among equals, not on accepting their authority over mages in general. Most notably, It cannot be a precondition for such co-operation that we accept their authority. If they don't want mages to leave, they should make it so that the mages don't want to leave. That, too, is not unthinkable, because there are tangible benefits to living in a Circle. However, a necessary part of what would make living in a Circle bearable is the knowledge that you could leave, if you wanted, and that it is your choice in whose support you use your powers. Note that this reasoning equally applies to everyone, not just mages. I hereby proclaim it a basic right of any man or woman of Thedas, regardless of race, religion or culture, to leave any nation, religion or other group and revoke their allegiance to it. I accept the establishment of that right as a sacred duty for myself, and I hope others will follow me in that."
[(*) I am assuming that life sentences don't exist on Thedas, and that criminals we would consider to deserve them are rather killed.]

"Very nice rhetoric, but, remarkably, you miss the plain truth of the matter. I have read your letter on Circle direction-- to summarize, you conclude the support of the Divine, the recruitment of Chantry templars and seekers in Circle guardianship, control over the Chantry lyrium supply and trade, and Chantry moral and political legitimacy necessary to revolution. Why not specify also the keys to the Grand Cathedral for the bed you are planning to make with the so-called "oppressors" appears cozy enough that the sisters would offer them up glady on a silver platter? Idependence as you describe it-- our fate inexorably tied to the Chantry. Warden, you are far closer to the Lucrosian mindset than you realize. My fraternity understands it would be completely foolish to war over what is becoming under Justinia V historical dogma and culture. And as magi require firm autonomy, thedosians require firm security-- neither will be delievered by obstinate, utopian Libertarian ideology. Compromise, as I have laid it out, is simple and its benefits to all parties readily apparent."

From Eorlin's written response to Kamilah:

"And you miss one important caveat of my recommendation to work with Justina's faction of the Chantry: as long as our autonomy is recognized. I am prepared to enter an alliance for mutual benefit, but it must be recognized that this is an alliance between equals and that mages aren't subordinate to the Chantry.

When I speak of autonomy, I don't mean autarky. When I speak of separation from the Chantry, I don't mean that any economic ties between mages' organizations and the Chantry should be cut. That would be a disaster. When I speak of where I will not compromise, it is on the point only that mages are recognized as not being subordinate to the Chantry, that the Chantry rescinds its claim to authority over all mages. This is an immutable precondition for any alliance, and if this is not recognized I will recommend going to war. I recognize no Right of Annulment. Attacks of templars on Circles and other mage institutions are acts of war, and whoever insists on such a right, war is what they will get.

As for working with templars, perhaps you have missed one important distinction: I said we need people with templar skills because we're going to embark on some dangerous research, people who can disrupt our magic should it escape our control, but who also understand that "disrupt our magic" does not mean "kill the mage". What we don't need is the templar claim of superiority and templar religious zealotry. The Chantry's templar education values religious zealotry, and thus the kind of templar I would be willing to work with is a minority within the templar order. Templar skills are independent from the templar order, and I recommend we should start training our own guard. As a compromise, I would be willing to accept a complement of the Chantry's templars as part of our own internal guard against demonic influence, but only if they're not religious zealots and are willing to act as guards instead of jailers."

Meta-level addendum:
I have written all of Eorlin's statements under the assumption that the Warden has abdicated as Warden-Commander and Arl of Amaranthine at some point, or has been abducted or otherwise been motivated to move away. That the Warden has vanished appears to be a premise of DAI, given Flemeth's comment in DA2, and I'm willing to accommodate it. Also, at some point after the events of DAA, Eorlin followed Morrigan through the eluvian, and of course this means that he implicitly abdicated. For that reason, I have said in the OP that Eorlin resides at an unknown location, possibly in or near Orlais. This also keeps the continuity intact should the DA team choose to do something unanticipated with my Warden.

Also, I am willing to accept the implicit communication between different continuities for the sake of being able to accommodate more participants in this thread.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 octobre 2013 - 10:22 .

[lil yonce]

Ieldra2 wrote...
From Eorlin's written response to Kamilah:

"And what you consider wholly unfair subordination, I consider sober and negotiable regulation. A renewed Chantry-Circle relationship must obviously become one of symbiotic give-and-take-- realistically, Warden, you must understand it will never become an affair in which your every Libertarian desire is satisfied. I have supported greater Circle autonomy, but absolute autonomy is simply not feasible-- the clergy will not encourage it, they will not aid it, and certainly not lend to it any legitimacy. Think on it, Warden-- a rebellious Chantry arm challenges their might in all dimensions and that is cause enough to denounce it. When the priesthood then thinks on the public good, they will break a Libertarian led revolution with all the power they can muster. For any support, we must accept, in appropriate measure, Chantry authority.

I have recommended this arrangement-- a strong, centralized government in which the Circle handles all commericial, civil, and criminal matters itself in full. The Chantry can advise the Circle in such manners, but templars will not, nor will any templar serve full time in a Circle. Instead they will serve in their own compounds very nearby, to be called to action when necessary-- though a sturdy, rotating patrol guard should be present in all Circles, at all times, to render immediate emergency services. Chantry officials and templars can expect full disclosure regarding Circle research and experimentation, and Circle constabulary cooperation in criminal investigations beyond Circle borders where, still, punishment is decided by the Circle of Magi. Next, I recommend the drafting of individual Circle constitutions to cultivate ownership in the new government, and to bridge individual Circle rights with collective Circle governance and Chantry guidance. While they must conform to a set of standards and powers instituted by the College of Enchanters, Circle constiutions are free to build a culture of reform more suitable to the context of a specific Circle. Rivaini mages and their traditions, for example, can reasonably be afforded less scrutiny in their practices, for Nevarran mortalitasi are certainly afforded less scrutiny in theirs, and have for centuries been. In this arrangement, vested still, and only, in the Chantry is the power to call the Circle of Magi into war, and also all other interests of foreign affairs, but appointing one delegate, emissary, and ambassador to serve as court mages in the kingdom which they reside. Still, the Chantry will control surface lyrium trade, and reserve the authority to create templars.

And again, Justinia V is replacing historical dogma and culture, and if her attempts are not reassuring enough for you, consider that Lucrosian compromise regards templar interests seriously and has fully incorporated them into reform plans, and if neither that is assurance enough, consider the spirit of compromise inherently acknowledges bitter, bloody extremes in seeking to avoid them-- templar attempts to revive draconian doctrine will have over them the true, and then legitimate, threat of unending war, something I do not believe the majority will hurriedly commit to after the present trial. I do not fear war Eorlin, simply, it is never inevitable, it is not inherently right, nor is it ever a matter of good versus evil-- it is the last resort in a line of appeals good men and women will first attempt in earnest, but Libertarians always and vehemently oppose."

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 31 octobre 2013 - 04:15 .

[Xilizhra]

"And what you consider wholly unfair subordination, I consider sober and negotiable regulation. A renewed Chantry-Circle relationship must obviously become one of symbiotic give-and-take-- realistically, Warden, you must understand it will never become an affair in which your every Libertarian desire is satisfied. I have supported greater Circle autonomy, but absolute autonomy is simply not feasible-- the clergy will not encourage it, they will not aid it, and certainly not lend to it any legitimacy. Think on it, Warden-- a rebellious Chantry arm challenges their might and that is cause enough to denounce it. For any support, we must accept, in appropriate measure, Chantry authority.

I have recommended this arrangement-- a strong, centralized government in which the Circles handles all commericial, civil, and criminal matters themselves in full. The Chantry can advise the Circle in such manners, but templars will not, nor will any templar serve full time in a Circle. Instead they will serve in their own compounds very nearby, to be called to action when necessary-- though a sturdy, rotating patrol guard should be present in all Circles at all times to render immediate emergency services. Chantry officials and templars can expect full disclosure regarding Circle research and experimentation, and Circle constabulary cooperation in criminal investigations, though punishment is ultimately decided by the Circle of Magi. Next, I reccommend the drafting of individual Circle constitutions to cultivate ownership in the new government, and to abridge individual Circle rights with collective Circle governance and Chantry guidance. While they must conform to a set of standards and powers instituted by the College of Enchanters, Circle constiutions are free to build a culture of reform more suitable to the context of a specific Circle. Rivaini mages and their traditions, for example, can reasonably be afforded less scrutiny in their practices, for Neverran Mortalitasi are certainly afforded less scrutiny in theirs, and have for centuries been. In this arrangement, vested still, and only, in the Chantry is the power to call the Circle of Magi into war, and also all other interests of foreign affairs, but appointing one delegate, emissary, and ambassador to serve as court mages in the kingdom which they reside. Still, the Chantry will control surface lyrium trade, and reserve the authority to create templars.

And again, Justinia V is replacing historical dogma and culture, and if her attempts are not reassuring enough for you, consider that Lucrosian compromise regards templar interests seriously and has fully incorporated them into reform plans, and if that is not assurance enough, consider the spirit of compromise inherently acknowledges bitter, bloody extremes in seeking to avoid them--templar attempts to revive draconian doctrine will have over them the true, and then legitimate, threat of unending war, something I do not believe the majority will hurriedly commit to. I do not fear war Eorlin, simply, it is never inevitable, it is never inherently right, nor is it ever a matter of good versus evil-- it is the last resort in a line of appeals good men and women will first attempt in earnest, but Libertarians always and vehemently oppose."

"You don't have to fear it. The war has come, whether you like it or not, and the templars will be no more merciful to you than to us. Face reality. Whatever your plans are, they mean nothing until we secure our own survival."

[Medhia Nox]

Dear Inquisitor,

Glad to see you're focusing on such important topics as closing the portals that are consuming the land.

If you have need, my small band and I will be running from Templars thanks to you and your fool friends, and trying to solve the portal issue. We'll let you know what we come up with.

Wouldn't want the apocalypse to get in the way of your personal little cause.

Sincerely,
The guy you stole the Inquisitory position from to run your own personal agenda up the butts of all of Thedas.

P.S. Can you please ask the cause-head blood mages in your employ to stop weakening the veil in their "desperation"? It's giving me a headache having to return to areas I JUST healed because some dumb Libertarian just HAD to show his ****. Thanks.

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Dear Inquisitor,

Glad to see you're focusing on such important topics as closing the portals that are consuming the land.

If you have need, my small band and I will be running from Templars thanks to you and your fool friends, and trying to solve the portal issue. We'll let you know what we come up with.

Wouldn't want the apocalypse to get in the way of your personal little cause.

Sincerely,
The guy you stole the Inquisitory position from to run your own personal agenda up the butts of all of Thedas.

P.S. Can you please ask the cause-head blood mages in your employ to stop weakening the veil in their "desperation"? It's giving me a headache having to return to areas I JUST healed because some dumb Libertarian just HAD to show his ****. Thanks.

I'm Hawke, not the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor is not a character in the universe yet and as such is disallowed.

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: Hawke sounds like a perfect fit for you.

Will you be changing again (you claimed to be the Inquisitor a few pages back)? Or is this your final character that you'll gobble up in your narcissistic crusade to be the most important person anywhere? 

Not sure why I don't just ignore you and go to the source of this little exercise. Ahh, blasted middle ground is so much more effort than it's worth sometimes.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 29 octobre 2013 - 06:45 .

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: Hawke sounds like a perfect fit for you.

Will you be changing again? Or is this your final character that you'll gobble up in your narcissistic crusade to be the most important person anywhere?

Not sure why I don't just ignore you and go to the source of this little exercise. Ahh, blasted middle ground is so much more effort than it's worth sometimes.

Given that the OP and one other person both claimed to be the Hero of Ferelden, I hardly see how I'm doing anything unprecedented.

Will you be changing again (you claimed to be the Inquisitor a few pages
back)? Or is this your final character that you'll gobble up in your
narcissistic crusade to be the most important person anywhere?

Different exercise. I decided it was a bad idea and conceded that role.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 29 octobre 2013 - 06:46 .

[Sir DeLoria]

I have a feeling Xil doesn't understand the role of the Templars in the system...

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

I have a feeling Xil doesn't understand the role of the Templars in the system...

As of now, the system doesn't exist, which is the scenario I'm currently speaking of.

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

I have a feeling Xil doesn't understand the role of the Templars in the system...

As of now, the system doesn't exist, which is the scenario I'm currently speaking of.

So you want the Templar order to be dissolved, thus leading to fascist Tevinter slave state 2.0, I take it?

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

I have a feeling Xil doesn't understand the role of the Templars in the system...

As of now, the system doesn't exist, which is the scenario I'm currently speaking of.

So you want the Templar order to be dissolved, thus leading to fascist Tevinter slave state 2.0, I take it?

First, Tevinter isn't fascist. Second, not having the current Templar Order as it now stands be in power over mages does not necessarily lead to a slaveholding magocracy.

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...
I have a feeling Xil doesn't understand the role of the Templars in the system...

As of now, the system doesn't exist, which is the scenario I'm currently speaking of.

So you want the Templar order to be dissolved, thus leading to fascist Tevinter slave state 2.0, I take it?

First, Tevinter isn't fascist. Second, not having the current Templar Order as it now stands be in power over mages does not necessarily lead to a slaveholding magocracy.

That depends on your definition of fascism(there are hundreds). If you define fascism as a totalitarian system in which a certain group is viewed as superior to others(mages in this case) then yes, Tevinter is fascist.

And yes, if there is no counterpart to mages sooner or later a magocracy will be established. Or are you really so naïve as to believe that mages would not abuse their powers?

[Xilizhra]

That depends on your definition of fascism(there are hundreds). If you define fascism as a totalitarian system in which a certain group is viewed as superior to others(mages in this case) then yes, Tevinter is fascist.

Sure, if you want to water it down long past the point of any usefulness, as this describes pretty much any authoritarian system ever.

And yes, if there is no counterpart to mages sooner or later a magocracy will be established. Or are you really so naïve as to believe that mages would not abuse their powers?

I never said that, I merely said that it wouldn't have to be the current Templar Order. Although I question why magocracy would be any worse than any of the other governments of Thedas, all of which determine eligibility by blood.

[lil yonce]

Xilizhra wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote... "All mages do not subscribe to Libertarian extremes, and neither do all templars subscribe to the extremes their current leaders endorse. Simply, they have first been rallied by them. Essential strategy in Lucrosian compromise lies in enlisting skeptics. The order's inflexible remnants can then be handled without incredible bloodshed."

"We should never weaken our own unity, and thus our chances of survival, until the templars have been beaten.You don't have to fear it. The war has come, whether you like it or not, and the templars will be no more merciful to you than to us. Face reality. Whatever your plans are, they mean nothing until we secure our own survival."

"All that has come is a questionable vote of sucession I will not accept, for Libertarian reality is grounded in ceaseless death. Not survival. It is a fascist fraternity fated to failure it will ignore in arrogant determination. I cannot say I rue the day it comes, and frankly, the sooner that is does, the sooner compromise can commence."

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 30 octobre 2013 - 03:43 .

[Xilizhra]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote... "All mages do not subscribe to Libertarian extremes, and neither do all templars subscribe to the extremes their current leaders endorse. Simply, they have first been rallied by them. Essential strategy in Lucrosian compromise lies in enlisting skeptics. The order's inflexible remnants can then be handled without incredible bloodshed."

"We should never weaken our own unity, and thus our chances of survival, until the templars have been beaten.You don't have to fear it. The war has come, whether you like it or not, and the templars will be no more merciful to you than to us. Face reality. Whatever your plans are, they mean nothing until we secure our own survival."

"All that has come is a questionable vote of sucession I will not accept, for Libertarian reality is grounded in cesaseless death. Not survival. It is a fascist fraternity fated to failure it will ignore in arrogant determination. I cannot say I rue the day it comes, and frankly, the sooner that is does, the sooner compromise can commence."

"So, have you chosen to side with the templars?"

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...
I never said that, I merely said that it wouldn't have to be the current Templar Order. Although I question why magocracy would be any worse than any of the other governments of Thedas, all of which determine eligibility by blood.

A magocracy lacks any balance of power. Wordly leaders are but mere men and it they could loose their position(and head) in a brief civil war or coup d'etat. Mages are far too powerful to be overthrown by a rebellion or a regular army. They are de facto holding the population hostage with their power, leaving regular folk at their mercy.

Modifié par Necanor, 29 octobre 2013 - 07:20 .

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I never said that, I merely said that it wouldn't have to be the current Templar Order. Although I question why magocracy would be any worse than any of the other governments of Thedas, all of which determine eligibility by blood.

A magocracy lacks any balance of power. Wordly leaders are but mere men and it they could loose their position(and head) in a brief civil war or coup d'etat. Mages are far too powerful to be overthrown by a rebellion or a regular army. They are de facto holding the population hostage with their power, leaving regular folk at their mercy.

Tevinter politics tend to be quite deadly. High individual life expectancy for the magisters is by no means a guarantee, even in the heart of magocratic power.

[Barquiel]

There are societies in Thedas that prove that free mages don't automatically mean Tevinter 2.0 (Rivain, Dalish, Chasind).

Modifié par Barquiel, 29 octobre 2013 - 07:25 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Barquiel wrote...

There are societies in Thedas that prove that free mages don't automatically mean Tevinter 2.0 (Rivain, Dalish, Chasind).

Yes, that system works, but all of these groups have far less mages than a nation such as Orlais or Fereldan. It's easy to keep track of a few dozen free mages, but not a few hundred or even thousand.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Barquiel wrote...

There are societies in Thedas that prove that free mages don't automatically mean Tevinter 2.0 (Rivain, Dalish, Chasind).

And all those societies suck, and are led by mages.