426 réponses à ce sujet

[KR4U55]

LobselVith8 wrote...

KR4U55 wrote...

Anyways, back on topic. I'm pretty sure the last DA2 didn't had race selection because a large part of the plot is becoming "noble", or at least a "respectable citizen". If the Inquisitor were a dwarf or an elf s/he would be extremply prejudged by every sentient being on Thedas. Remember teh City Elf origin could end with an elf Bann, an extremly controvercial situation that outraged all the human nobles.

An apostate Hawke becoming Champion should have been just as controversial, if not more so given the view of mages in the Andrastian kingdoms. The lack of the elven and dwarven options for the protagonist seems like more of an issue of time constraints, rather than the story only working for a human protagonist - since most of the story could have worked, hypothetically, with an elven or dwarven main character.

First of all in DA2  Hawke managed to avoid suspicion (Maker knows how) of being an apostate. S/He used his/her wealth to recover part of the  Amell legacy, making him/her a really influencial citizen, making him/her able to ignore accusations and shut up rumours. Apparently nobody realized Hawke was a mage until the end of Act 2, and by then nobody cared.

As a side note elven can't be nobility, or at least not in a human city. Of cousre, I'm pretty sure the game could be developedto have all thre races, but as you said time constraints make very difficult to make the entire game acknowledges the Inquisitor's race, with respective family and NPC responses.

LobselVith8 wrote...

KR4U55 wrote...

Besides, NOBODY would ever take an elf Inquisitor seriously. Commoners would most probably attack him/her or try to get them arrested for "Wearing a law enforcer uniform".

Wouldn't those same people attack a mage Inquisitor as well?

I assume a human wearing robes with the Inquisition's heraldry is above suspicion. An elf wearing said heraldy would be taken as a joke or a con-man.

Modifié par KR4U55, 26 juin 2013 - 12:23 .

[LobselVith8]

KR4U55 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

An apostate Hawke becoming Champion should have been just as controversial, if not more so given the view of mages in the Andrastian kingdoms. The lack of the elven and dwarven options for the protagonist seems like more of an issue of time constraints, rather than the story only working for a human protagonist - since most of the story could have worked, hypothetically, with an elven or dwarven main character.

First of all in DA2  Hawke managed to avoid suspicion (Maker knows how) of being an apostate. S/He used his/her wealth to recover part of the Amell legacy, making him/her a really influencial citizen, turning accusations into rumours. Apparently nobody realized Hawke was a mage until the end of Act 2, and by then nobody cared.

That's my point: the fact that nobody cared that Hawke was an apostate is a problem. Not to mention Anders and Merrill also being known apostates at this point. And it's hardly even addressed. Sebastian never once mentions Hawke being an apostate, even though (like Fenris did) he should have come to this realization when he saw an illegal Hawke using magic in combat.

KR4U55 wrote...

I admit, I am defending the story with the full knowledge the Inquisitor "could" be of any race, but as you said, due time constrains and what-not developing the full game to acknowledge the player character's race, with all that it implies, is imposible.

I suppose time will tell how the 'human only' limitation of Inquisition is handled.

KR4U55 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Wouldn't those same people attack a mage Inquisitor as well?

Elven are third class commoners (just behind thieves and beggars, mostly for combining those two) and none of them can even aspire to normal citizenship anywhere. A human wearing robes with the Inquisition's heraldry is kind of protected. Watching an elf with said heraldry would be the equivalent of having a woman as your boss in the 50's. 

Why would the Inquisitor be 'protected'? I imagine people would try to attack a mage regardless of the heraldry, as even mages in Asunder came under attack from a mob - despite a templar being right there.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 26 juin 2013 - 12:42 .

[KR4U55]

I'd say that "protection" is license to fry the idiots with thunder. To be honest that's one of the things about videogames (especially complex ones) that us fans love to discuss, even when we can agree it doesn't make much sense in-universe.

[Wompoo]

The human race only option, feels as if I am being forced into accepting some potentially bogus human god "the Maker" (seriously sick of this wife stealing demi being... just kill him) or as if the only thing that matters in this diverse world are humans (it isn't as if DA:O did much with multi racial selection any, outside of a very ultra light reference every now and then) is being pushed down my throat. I do hope there is a twist in there some where, like hey there is no maker, there is no eleven pantheon and dwarves where just the left overs (the unneeded unwanted dna... Twins rings a bell there). Human only is boring, replaying BG2 at the moment and even with the tight D2 rules I can still get a a fairly good multi racial game experience. Come on guys, you can add some variation surely, while you sit back waiting another year for the next gen consoles to reach some form of market saturation, before releasing the game.

[Allan Schumacher]

while you sit back waiting another year

Adversarial pot shots are not necessary nor productive, and in the end ultimately undermine the rest of your post since you appear to be interested in reciprocating a disrespect you feel by being forced to play human, with disrespect in kind.

There are ways to present your point without concluding it with something that makes me frustrated, and hence, no longer interested in actually engaging your post.

[Nightdragon8]

honestly I think the answer has been given and really thee is no, need to keep this open longer.

The topic will always be brought up when they make a new game, and it will be dicided if the protags are going to be human only or they will have multiple races.

So the answer is "No" there will be other races in the game agian, will it be DA3? nope, what about DA4, "Maybe" considering they are still working on DA:I they don't really have that much time to think about DA4.

[dragondreamer]

KR4U55 wrote...

I hate to write off-topic, but please go on topic again. Mr. Schumacher generally answers doubds and heavier stuff only to be responded by fan ******.

Anyways, back on topic. I'm pretty sure the last DA2 didn't had race selection because a large part of the plot is becoming "noble", or at least a "respectable citizen". If the Inquisitor were a dwarf or an elf s/he would be extremply prejudged by every sentient being on Thedas. Remember teh City Elf origin could end with an elf Bann, an extremly controvercial situation that outraged all the human nobles.

Besides, NOBODY would ever take an elf Inquisitor seriously. Commoners would most probably attack him/her or try to get them arrested for "Wearing a law enforcer uniform".

One of things I found fun about Awakening was the unusual situation of an elf (and a mage) being Arl of Amaranthine.  My Warden ultimately felt he needed to be heavy-handed to garner any respect from the Banns, Hero of Ferelden or not.  Which was an unexpected turn of events for my Warden, given his personality.  

[Melca36]

Wompoo wrote...

The human race only option, feels as if I am being forced into accepting some potentially bogus human god "the Maker" (seriously sick of this wife stealing demi being... just kill him) or as if the only thing that matters in this diverse world are humans (it isn't as if DA:O did much with multi racial selection any, outside of a very ultra light reference every now and then) is being pushed down my throat. I do hope there is a twist in there some where, like hey there is no maker, there is no eleven pantheon and dwarves where just the left overs (the unneeded unwanted dna... Twins rings a bell there). Human only is boring, replaying BG2 at the moment and even with the tight D2 rules I can still get a a fairly good multi racial game experience. Come on guys, you can add some variation surely, while you sit back waiting another year for the next gen consoles to reach some form of market saturation, before releasing the game.

the humans will have background choices this time around. How about not judging the game until you've played it?

[Boycott Bioware]

Sable Rhapsody wrote
I doubt you'll ever get "different everything." Apart from the Origin stories and some nuances in the sidequests and plot areas that directly dealt with dwarves, elves, etc., DA:O's plot was pretty much the same no matter what race you played. The only instance in which the PC's race made a direct impact on the potential outcome of a major plot choice was at the Landsmeet.

Here's the thing, though: would you have liked the option to pick your race and background nearly as much if the game was completely unresponsive to your choice? Or if the choice of race made no sense in the game? The plot of DA2, as others have pointed out, would've made no sense with an elvish (especially Dalish) family. With some serious stretching, you could maybe make it work for a dwarf family. But it just flows better with a human family.

Or do you think that every plot should accomodate multiple racial backgrounds, maybe?

Of course the plot of the story is the same for all races, but how the plot is handled is different for each races

For example, as a Cousland, when dealing with Zathrian and his werewolf problem, i just simply having sympathy toward the werewolves because they are cursed human, and i hate Zathrian who curse them for thousands of years...but when i play as Dalish, i understand Zathrian, but i don't agree with him and free the werewolves from the curse,  it is different you know...furthermore, the Dalish character parent was killed by human in the very same manner Zathrian family was killed....but as a Grey Warden i am supposed to save everyone not just the Dalish...there is interesting conflict between revenge, principle and sentiment there...I may support Zathrian just because i am Dalish and i may not support him because he's going too far....

As a Cousland, i just want an army of Dwarves, i don't really care about Orzamar politic because it is simply not my problem. I may support anyone i want just because i need an army as soon as possible. But as Dwarf there many things to be considered.

As a Cousland, i just agree to save Red Cliff...but as a Dalish, there is a different feeling, helping human is good thing, but human who kill my parent and drove my people out, enslave my people...so saving Red Cliff feel special, although it never shown in the game but there is something that make me proud myself....furthermore like my point above as a Grey Warden i am supposed to save everyone and that include human...i just can't simply don't want to help Red Cliff villagers because they are human...so it is a different feeling as a Cousland and as Mahariel

Even as a Mage have different feeling when saving Red Cliff

Different races give different perspective on things...playing only as human is only one dimensional

Modifié par Qistina, 26 juin 2013 - 02:02 .

[Nefla]

^^ lol yeah. And speak for yourself I love being human, even in games where I had the choice to not be I still prefer human.

Like Silfen said the other races cost resources, voice actors, etc. I would rather they focus their attention on gameplay, avoiding plot holes and level design.

Because they did such a good job with those things in DA2 where you had no origin and had to be human...oh wait.

I am speaking for myself, think about it you love playing human so much, how would you feel if the choice to pick human was taken away and you had to play a dwarf in every future game? It takes extra resources but not as much as people are claiming. You wouldn't need extra voice actors, just some varied dialogue/choices/opportunities here and there. They could do both if they wanted, writing some alternate lines for a different race would not suddenly mean that they couldn't write a good story without gaping plot holes (being lazy or a bad writer would) and would have no effect whatsoever on gameplay. The body models are already there, the battle animations are already there from npcs and companions.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Qistina wrote...
Different races give different perspective on things...playing only as human is only one dimensional

And again, I think you missed my point: Origins' perspectives are as much about BACKGROUND as they are about race.  We've already been told that character creation for the Inquisitor will include different backgrounds.  If DA:I is as responsive to the Inquisitor's background as DA:O was for the Warden, you still get multiple perspectives on things for plenty of replay value and variance.  It's the same effect, just with differing backgrounds instead of different races.

You think "human" is one dimensional, but you also pointed out differences between playing as a mage vs. non-mage, which is a matter of background rather than race.  Race choice is NOT the only way to introduce a variety of roleplaying options and perspectives.  Background, class, even (potentially) class specialization can serve the exact same purpose.

[Steppenwolf]

Morocco Mole wrote...

So I never got why people were so obsessed with them.

Being an Elf that saves Ferelden and the rest of Thedas practically singlehandedly is like a black man becoming president of the Unites States in the 1950s.

[pdusen]

Edit: I'm out of this thread.

Modifié par pdusen, 26 juin 2013 - 02:40 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
And again, I think you missed my point: Origins' perspectives are as much about BACKGROUND as they are about race. We've already been told that character creation for the Inquisitor will include different backgrounds. If DA:I is as responsive to the Inquisitor's background as DA:O was for the Warden, you still get multiple perspectives on things for plenty of replay value and variance. It's the same effect, just with differing backgrounds instead of different races.

You think "human" is one dimensional, but you also pointed out differences between playing as a mage vs. non-mage, which is a matter of background rather than race. Race choice is NOT the only way to introduce a variety of roleplaying options and perspectives. Background, class, even (potentially) class specialization can serve the exact same purpose.

And you forgot that Circle Mage could be an Elf too, not just human. Elf Circle Mage surely have little bit difference than human Mage. There is an Elf in the Circle, an apprentice, he feel that being in the Circle is a way to prove to everyone that an Elf can do something great

In anyway, Mages share the same fate, Mages always being viewed as Mages, no matter what race or status or background, a Mage is a Mage. Anders is a Grey Warden, but we look him a Mage than a Grey Warden. In that Wayne is right, no matter who you are, where you go, what you do, people see you a Mage

"Mage" become a faction of it's own now

But, Dalish Mages are not the same with human Mages. Serabas is not the same with Dalish and human Mages. You see Ketojan? He have different view about everything, he's a Qun. Even Mage Hawke cannot convince him otherwise.

Different race have different value on things

I am not white, i am Asian, i love chilies, if there is no chillies i feel incomplete, i must have chillies for lunch and dinner, it is a mandatory, i value chillies more than cheese

[Cainhurst Crow]

I would rather have 1 well crafted, well made, and excellently thought out human protaganist, than three mediocre, not as thought out, railroaded all to end up in the same place, elf, human, and dwarf character. But that's just me because I think quality should come before quantity.

As for the whole skintone thing, that's a bit iffy. You can see skin color, but computers can't. They don't distinguish skintone outside of a few lines of code that tell it how to balance the primary colors for one npc's appearance, but little else to alter the others to make them look differently. It's difficult to program, and even more so to program it to alter the other features well, as demonstrated with the changing family of dragon age 2 based on how you made your character. It wasn't flawless, but it was a step in the right direction due to going beyond what was originally limited by technology levels.

And as for why preset hawke wasn't the same as your customized hawke, well the answer to that is simple. The people of thedas are horribly racist, and they whitewashed hawke to look more like them to feel better. That's really not that hard to grasp, and it's not like bioware themselves are saying "White hawke is the right hawke". If your really going to get that bent out of shape over it, I suggest you grow some thicker skin and fast, cause there are much nastier things that are coming in your life, and they won't apologize when they hurt your feelings.

[Solmanian]

I just hope it doesn't mean we can't play as a turian in ME4...

[Sable Rhapsody]

Qistina wrote...
But, Dalish Mages are not the same with human Mages. Serabas is not the same with Dalish and human Mages. You see Ketojan? He have different view about everything, he's a Qun. Even Mage Hawke cannot convince him otherwise.

Different race have different value on things

So do different cultures.  Or different backgrounds or family lives or a whole battery of things.  Ferelden mages and Kirkwall mages bring different perspectives to the table.  So do apostate mages vs. Circle mages.  They could all be human, and they would all be different.  This is especially true given how the Qunari are multiracial. Tallis and Fenris are both elves, but in terms of outlook, Tallis has more in common with Ketojan or the Arishok.

I'm a little confused as to why you're so fixated on race being something unique in terms of game replayability when other factors work just as well.  Culture, class, gender, PC background...these could all be used to the SAME EFFECT.  The Inquisitor's variety of backgrounds in DA:I have the potential to introduce replayability and perspective same as the origin stories did back in DA:O.  So...what's the problem?

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 26 juin 2013 - 07:47 .

[Maria Caliban]

Karlone123 wrote...

Will we always have to play as a Human in future games?

There's been no definitive word on the matter. It's unlikely that it will be this way for all future games.

[jkflipflopDAO]

There's only one answer to this problem. The player shouldn't be mute OR voiced. Instead, the player character should respond in a manner similar to "Mr. Bean" with noises and grunts.

[Ziggeh]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I'm a little confused as to why you're so fixated on race being something unique in terms of game replayability when other factors work just as well.  Culture, class, gender, PC background...these could all be used to the SAME EFFECT.  The Inquisitor's variety of backgrounds in DA:I have the potential to introduce replayability and perspective same as the origin stories did back in DA:O.  So...what's the problem?

While I completely agree, there is definitely value in racial differences. What you want from those differing perspectives is distinction, the sense of seperation from each other.
You definitely can get that with humans alone, but the more breaks, the more obvious and evident the differences, the easier they are for the player to see and adopt. 
It's the picture painting a thousand words thing.

[Ziggeh]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

There's only one answer to this problem. The player shouldn't be mute OR voiced. Instead, the player character should respond in a manner similar to "Mr. Bean" with noises and grunts.

Or shout "HODOR" in response to everything.

[Xewaka]

Ziggeh wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...
There's only one answer to this problem. The player shouldn't be mute OR voiced. Instead, the player character should respond in a manner similar to "Mr. Bean" with noises and grunts.

Or shout "HODOR" in response to everything.

Or stop with this "racial accent" nonsense, have the accent be based on the character's city of origin, and have the character with the same voice regardless of race.

[Boycott Bioware]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

So do different cultures. Or different backgrounds or family lives or a whole battery of things. Ferelden mages and Kirkwall mages bring different perspectives to the table. So do apostate mages vs. Circle mages. They could all be human, and they would all be different. This is especially true given how the Qunari are multiracial. Tallis and Fenris are both elves, but in terms of outlook, Tallis has more in common with Ketojan or the Arishok.

I'm a little confused as to why you're so fixated on race being something unique in terms of game replayability when other factors work just as well. Culture, class, gender, PC background...these could all be used to the SAME EFFECT. The Inquisitor's variety of backgrounds in DA:I have the potential to introduce replayability and perspective same as the origin stories did back in DA:O. So...what's the problem?

Background only give little differences in perspective. I give an example, Dwarf Commoner vs Dwarf Noble origin in DA:O. Both still Dwarves and both bound to Dwarf tradition. Dwarf Commoner may want to support Bhelen, Dwarf Noble may want to support Harrowmont but Bhelen is his/her brother so he/she may want to support Bhelen in sense to maintain family value Aeducan blood on the throne. Still, both origin are from the same race only different background and they both bound to the same belief and same culture. But both Dwarf origins have different value than any other races outside Orzamar

In real life sense, there are Muslim converts in the west, but Muslims in the west only have similarity in faith, not culture with all other Muslims around the world. They may wear hijab an all, but they still bound to western people culture. Their view on some issues may be differently with Muslims in Indonesia or Muslims in Arab for example, because of from different races. Although sharing the same religion each races have their own way depend on racial culture.

Last night i just completed a DA:O playthrough (yes i am still playing DA:O) and for the first time of all playthroughs i make Ultimate Sacrifice ending for Dalish, Alistair as a King... i am surprise how meaningful it is for the Dalish, i am crying...i do not lie, i am crying...it is a satisfying ending for me...

Modifié par Qistina, 27 juin 2013 - 01:02 .

[Drasanil]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
My answer to topic: each game that decision will get made, so unless we stop making games, the chance is never 0.

I would say the chance might as well be zero, since this is now two games where it appears to have been the first thing you cut and announced long before you were ready to talk about anything else. 

From the outside it seems like Bioware didn't even bother trying to include it. So why take at face value statements to the contrary when you're establishing a fairly clear pattern of not being willing to do it?