426 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

fchopin wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Edited to stay in topic.

Back to OP's question: I really hope not. Humans are ok but can feel a little boring when you could try other races. I would love to play a game from an elf's perspective. Maybe where they can somehow improve things for other elves. I enjoyed the City Elf Origin a lot since it put the character in a difficult situation to live and eventually persevere but not really improve the situation for other elves. 

I would also love to play a city elf trying to help the elf races to become more equal and not a third class citizen.
That is one of the big problems of Dragon Age games, in DAO it does not matter what race you are as after each of the origins you become a warden and have only one goal in life so you can not try to help your people.
 
In DA2 Hawke does not care about anyone but himself and family, Hawke kills people for money and does not care if elves are slaves or not, Hawke does not fight for equality for all but for money and power. Nothing wrong with that but that is all Hawke does.
I do not think there will be any improvements in DA3 as humans will get all the trophies and other races will be around just for fun.
 
I would love to play an elf to fight for freedom and not just be raped by anyone with power, both male and female elves are raped and there is not one person to pick up a sword and fight.

Um how do you know that Hawke didnt care for slaves?  Maybe thats how your Hawke was but it certainly was not mine.

Some of you need to get it in your head that we all play DIFFERENTLY. Your interpretation is yours ALONE. Please dont assume everybody played the same way.

[fchopin]

Melca36 wrote...

Um how do you know that Hawke didnt care for slaves?  Maybe thats how your Hawke was but it certainly was not mine.

Some of you need to get it in your head that we all play DIFFERENTLY. Your interpretation is yours ALONE. Please dont assume everybody played the same way.

Saying i care means nothing unless someone does something about the problem.
Words are easy to say but very difficult to actually do them.

[Boycott Bioware]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Background only give little differences in perspective. I give an example, Dwarf Commoner vs Dwarf Noble origin in DA:O. Both still Dwarves and both bound to Dwarf tradition. Dwarf Commoner may want to support Bhelen, Dwarf Noble may want to support Harrowmont but Bhelen is his/her brother so he/she may want to support Bhelen in sense to maintain family value Aeducan blood on the throne. Still, both origin are from the same race only different background and they both bound to the same belief and same culture. But both Dwarf origins have different value than any other races outside Orzamar

Part of the reason why they aren't too different is because making them too different creates a combinatorial explosion and increases the difficulty in terms of scope and whatnot. The fact that many dwarf lines are the same regardless of Commoner/Noble is a cost-saving mechanism.

I am sure cost for voice acting is more than to add few different text lines isn't it?

What i mean is, Dwarf Commoner still a Dwarf who live in Dwarven environment, the difference with Dwarf Noble is the social environment, Dwarf Commoner is casteless while the nobles are the elites. background does little thing there except in class struggle.

Compare with human/Elf Warden who going to Orzamar, the Warden don't know Dwarf culture, an outsider, a person of different race. The character view about Orzamar is different with the Dwarves. For me, like i mentioned before, it don't really matter for Elissa Cousland or Lyna Mahariel to choose Harrowmont or Bhelen, what important is Orzamar is functional to give them an army ASAP. The sentiment is different for Dwarf Commoner and Dwarf Noble Origin.

In similar way, both Dwarf origin character will have different view about the Circle, Ferelden politic and Dalish problem. It depends on how the player understand the race they are playing.

Of course Grey Warden accepting all races and what important is kill that giant snake, but we simply cannot throw away sentiments overnight, and that is what make the story meaningful. As i mention before, i just finished Dalish Elf Ultimate Sacrifice for the first time, and i cry, because now i understand the Dalish...well, there is a little romance with Alistair at last part in the game, but no sex just a kiss because i don't romance him at all untill near the Red Cliff destruction, and i only play with 5 characters (Warden, Alistair, Morrigan, Dog and Oghren) but that enough making me cry in the end...because seeing the Warden body on a pyre then Alistair dialogues, then the Keeper dialogues...and the Epilogue....it is meaningful...i don't feel the same playing as Elissa Cousland who romance and marry Alistair

It give me different perspective on things in the game...about what is mean to be a Dalish and a Grey Warden

Modifié par Qistina, 27 juin 2013 - 10:25 .

[Zazzerka]

fchopin wrote...

Saying i care means nothing unless someone does something about the problem.
Words are easy to say but very difficult to actually do them.

You can rescue an elven slave and give her a paying job.

That's gotta count for something.

[fchopin]

Zazzerka wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Saying i care means nothing unless someone does something about the problem.
Words are easy to say but very difficult to actually do them.

You can rescue an elven slave and give her a paying job.

That's gotta count for something.

Yes to work for you so you can feel good about yourself, that is really helping.
Hawke has helped a slave and deserves a medal.

[Zazzerka]

fchopin wrote...

Yes to work for you so you can feel good about yourself, that is really helping.
Hawke has helped a slave and deserves a medal.

You let her go, and she'll probably end up raped and dead in the street.

You give her the money and let her go, she'll probably end up the same as the above, but with "robbed" added to the list.

Sheltering, feeding and clothing her sure seems like the compassionate thing to do. And c'mon, she cooks and plays the lute, it's not exactly hard labour.

Modifié par Zazzerka, 27 juin 2013 - 10:33 .

[fchopin]

Zazzerka wrote...

And c'mon, she cooks and plays the lute, it's not exactly hard labour.

I like the lute so Hawke does help a little so i give you that but just don’t say that he cares about the elves.

[Zazzerka]

fchopin wrote...

I like the lute so Hawke does help a little so i give you that but just don’t say that he cares about the elves.

Not canonically, but you can help the elves just as much as anyone. You can agree to kill the murderer who was killing elven girls for "being too pretty", at the request of an elven man.

Mission parameters changed when Hawke found out he was killing elven girls. That style of Hawke must care to some degree.

[fchopin]

Zazzerka wrote...

fchopin wrote...

I like the lute so Hawke does help a little so i give you that but just don’t say that he cares about the elves.

Not canonically, but you can help the elves just as much as anyone. You can agree to kill the murderer who was killing elven girls for "being too pretty", at the request of an elven man.

Mission parameters changed when Hawke found out he was killing elven girls. That style of Hawke must care to some degree.

You are correct, Hawke does help a little but he is not the person to fight for the elves.

[Oasis_JS]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

as dwarves and elves are the only ones with different beliefs and basic structure different, and it being a staple of fantasy role playing, and having it available, and then not, a player making a character feels very limited as to their distinction and power.

I agree, and I think this is what lends itself to being a much larger task than say, race options in Baldur's Gate.

Letting the player play an elf, but not having the game play or conversations reflect that, would be pretty hollow (and I think it'd get us mountains of criticism).

yeah..I totally argee..if i am understanding you right..how you are explaining if we just put some  character with a different ethnic background..but do not put the emotions to reflect that character with in the world.or the world relfecting to the he/she. ..it will be empty.. sorry if i am saying what u said..its how i remember things..saying something over..

yeah..i can just imagine lots of work you guys..will have plan for any future da games..my hat off to you..because i bet for sure if you touch for example a elf for a furutre project.its going to be double the world..not just writing the human gameplay,conversation and so on.. you will have to do all that for elf as well.  again my hats off to you.



just being random =D
even if we have to play with human character for the future project as well, it's ok with me, i understand all the hard work and panels and so on that you all must go through. so its fine because =D .. I  am happy at least..if they will always have the cultural interactions of the human being introduce into something.giving that player the relfect from that world. i always enjoy my game play as a human in dao or as hawke..because those moments learning from the nbc about their elven culture,or so on. was always a neat  experience


now this is I just being a fan right now , if you dont mind, I think it would be fun if any future projects..even if it's human.main character , If they may already have some type relationship already set up with Character  of a different culture background.  I guess  I am thinking about Leliana's Song  , how Leiliana already had set up friend ship with a elf and drawf.

It would be fun to see the main human character in a furture project..who for example origin story was already have a  bar fighting dwarf buddy or adopted Elven sister. or some Orlais servent pal.  who sticking with them playable or npc .but at least having some heart warming/funny interactions =D:wizard:

please forgiving my grammar and spelling

Modifié par Oasis_JS, 04 juillet 2013 - 10:07 .

[Zazzerka]

fchopin wrote...

You are correct, Hawke does help a little but he is not the person to fight for the elves.

He can fight for at least one elf.

[fchopin]

Zazzerka wrote...

fchopin wrote...

You are correct, Hawke does help a little but he is not the person to fight for the elves.

He can fight for at least one elf.

You mean kill all the elves in the village for a crazy person?

[Zazzerka]

YOU ARE INSUFFERABLE

[thats1evildude]

Zazzerka wrote...

He can fight for at least one elf.

*image snip*

To hell and back, if necessary. 

Modifié par thats1evildude, 27 juin 2013 - 11:30 .

[Zazzerka]

thats1evildude wrote...

To hell and back, if necessary. 

[fchopin]

Zazzerka wrote...

YOU ARE INSUFFERABLE

[LobselVith8]

thats1evildude wrote...

Zazzerka wrote...

He can fight for at least one elf.

*image snip*

To hell and back, if necessary. 

Pretty much this. :happy:

[addiction21]

Angrywolves wrote...

addiction 21 wrong again ? rotfl. Believe what you want to buddy.

What  am I wrong about? DAO didn't take 5-6 years to make because of the racial choics, just because someone at BioWare said it unlikely they will ever have a dev cycle like that does not preclude race choice in the future,  and  you are playing chicken little.

[Eveangaline]

I realize race choices aren't returning for this game but I hope they'll be back for future games.

[karushna5]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I agree, and I think this is what lends itself to being a much larger task than say, race options in Baldur's Gate.

Letting the player play an elf, but not having the game play or conversations reflect that, would be pretty hollow (and I think it'd get us mountains of criticism).

Partly, but while I believe race choice and not having it shown will make some upset, in most cases it will be similiar to blood magic, why can't my elf respond here, or others are not reacting? Honestly the fact of just having a race at all for most games is the choice people use to customize their character. If it could be done DA:O style, that would be great, but if that is too much time and difficulty to do in the games, it is understandable and even a good idea not to try. As I said there is certainly a lack of background customization and it feels like a large dip in player Choice But if you guys can make the game wonderful in other ways with player and character agency, it will become less of an issue.

I think it hit home hard because Hawke had so little agency and we are given a background that we can't choose so that the diffrance between Rogue and Warrior was only mechanics. Even mages had a very low backstory role, and I understand why, but coupled with the fact that Hawke was a bit helpless to the events around her, it went from in depth backstory and customization to very little effect, which is why Sheperd doesn't have nearly the "Biowares character" arguement that Hawke does.

[ScarMK]

addiction21 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

addiction 21 wrong again ? rotfl. Believe what you want to buddy.

What  am I wrong about? DAO didn't take 5-6 years to make because of the racial choics, just because someone at BioWare said it unlikely they will ever have a dev cycle like that does not preclude race choice in the future,  and  you are playing chicken little.

DAO took so long because they changed engines multiple times during the process and had to write everything from scratch. (Lore, art, code, etc)  

[Allan Schumacher]

Partly, but while I believe race choice and not having it shown will make some upset, in most cases it will be similiar to blood magic, why can't my elf respond here, or others are not reacting?

I actually consider the way our games react to blood mages to be a non-trivial oversight. And it frequently comes up in discussions (although in this discussion, usually as evidence of "They didn't care on blood mages, so they shouldn't care on races!" Whereas I'm of the opinion "We should care for both." But then, if it was up to me blood mage would probably have never been a potential specialization - certainly not in retrospect).

[Sylvius the Mad]

SamFlagg wrote...

I believe there is a general misconception about how much work goes into coding and designing games now vs games in previous eras.

That only matters if we get better games now.

Do we?

[SamFlagg]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

SamFlagg wrote...

I believe there is a general misconception about how much work goes into coding and designing games now vs games in previous eras.

That only matters if we get better games now.

Do we?

I'm just merely stating that there is a misconception about how much effort it actually takes to create things.  This is not a defense of glaring oversights (cough import flags) but it is a recognition of reality.  The more complicated the system is the more things interact the harder the project is to manage. 

As for 'better' games.  Better really is entirely subjective as a metric without a definition.  And no, not every game is BGII, but then, I'm ok with that. 

And why in the world didn't anyone tell me this thread was going to take a diversion to Merrill, greatest elf ever?  This seems relevant to my interests.