47 réponses à ce sujet

[JoltDealer]

 Title essentially says it all.  Does anyone think Dragon Age: Inquisition will have a New Game Plus?  Mass Effect has it, but to my knowledge none of the Dragon Age games have it.  Maybe things will change.

[TCBC_Freak]

I've always been vocal about wanting them to add NG+ to Dragon Age. I think most, if not all, RPG's benefit from it, and I have never heard a down side to it, since it's completely optional to use as a player. The best gear and skills only come about at the end of the game most of the time, sometimes you literally only have the best stuff during the last boss fight. I don't often replay a game to "try different builds," I replay to see what would happen if I made different in game choices, as in dialog and story. And New Game Plus does nothingt o prevent you from starting over from level one if you want to have a different class or make different skill picks or whatever. To me NG+ is only ever a benefit. Now from a programing stand point it may not be easy but I think its a feature worth having.

[ManOfSteel]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

I've always been vocal about wanting them to add NG+ to Dragon Age. I think most, if not all, RPG's benefit from it, and I have never heard a down side to it, since it's completely optional to use as a player. The best gear and skills only come about at the end of the game most of the time, sometimes you literally only have the best stuff during the last boss fight. I don't often replay a game to "try different builds," I replay to see what would happen if I made different in game choices, as in dialog and story. And New Game Plus does nothingt o prevent you from starting over from level one if you want to have a different class or make different skill picks or whatever. To me NG+ is only ever a benefit. Now from a programing stand point it may not be easy but I think its a feature worth having.

This. New Game Plus would do nothing but make the game more replayable, IMO. It takes absolutely nothing away from people that don't want it, but adds a new way to replay the game for people that do. The number of Mass Effect 2 playthroughs I've done wouldn't be in double figures if it weren't for New Game Plus, and I would've replayed Origins and Dragon Age 2 even more if it were an option.

[JoltDealer]

I agree with you guys wholeheartedly. For some people like myself, I like doing new game+ because by the time I finish the story the first time, I've only just figured out my favorite look and way to play. There don't seem to be any downsides to it. It is really just a matter of whether or not it is included.

[Giubba]

ok put an hardcap on levels, don't give any experience from playing in ng+ and we are done.... but the first who will start moaning that the game is too easy he will be found with his throat slitted from ear to ear.

[BouncyFrag]

Yes! Crank up the difficulty to 11 too.

[MichaelStuart]

I would just prefer a mode were you start at max level.

[Sandy]

I see the problem with NG+ as being two-fold.

One: If Bioware decides to have enemies have a fixed level depending on area/time of encounter the game will not scale well with the NG+ game as the encounters early on will be far to easy for a fully geared and fully leveled character. People will then complain that the game is to easy on NG+, which will lead to some kind of attempt to scale enemies to character level instead of area/time in the story. I don't see this working well since the leveling curve and item curve in RPG is not linear.

Two: If they go the route of having enemies scale right of the bat, the level up system and the encounters would more than likely result in players feeling that they "have" to play the same character multiple times to see all the content, all abilities and all items. Alot of people like the sense of completion, and while I have no idea how many people would see a NG+ feature as a must have I doubt that group is as big as some of the posters on the BSN would like to believe.

Bioware has said multiple times that they don't design their game with replayability as a major focal point. Not to say that their games don't lend themselves great for this, but the bottom line is that Bioware want to sell a game that people play and enjoy fully ONCE. They have then met their goal of making a great game that will sell alot of copies and will get great reviews and scores. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake and will have to be examined in another light as opposed to "key-features" of the game.

I am one of those that would not like to see a NG+, simply because I believe that in some way the game will feel incomplete after the first playthrough, I know that a common counter-agrument is that it has no effect on the ones that only want to play one playthrough, but I don't believe this to be true since the level-up design, the talents, skills, items and enemies will all in some way have to be balanced and scaled.

[NRieh]

I wrote about it several times as well. I'd love to see NG+.

I don't really like how ME1 handled it's NG+. Once you reach your cap and get your top gear - you're stuck with 9999999 creds, and max omnigel, you have no interest in loot and equipment at all (but loot still happens) and you have no progression. May be, it's a good idea to keep some items or give some extra levels (like ME2 in case of import from ME1), but there must be some way to "reset" same character without fully recreating it.

I can see why DAO had no NG+ - they wanted you to try out all of origins. But DA2 has no PC variety, it has Hawke. And it's only logical to assume, that there are people, who want to replay "their Hawke" several times.

Bioware want to sell a game that people play and enjoy fully ONCE.

That's far from accurate. They do target at your first spoiler-free and metagaming-free playthrough, but I don't see how it prevents them from allowing player to replay that very PT once again (one player enjoyed, and one player wishes to replay).

[Rylor Tormtor]

If you need a new game + to increase the replay-ability of your game, then there is something wrong with your game. While many games have used this feature, it works best on games that prize mechanic over narrative or role playing. In addition, to make NG+ desirable, designers often gate content beyond multiple play throughs, which again is a gimmicky way to get people to play your game more because there is nothing else in the game that warrants a second play through.

[Plaintiff]

I have no problem with a New Game+ feature, but I don't really see its value in a game like Dragon Age, where all the content can easily be found and completed within a single playthrough.

I think if you're going to have a New Game+ feature, you should have extra sidequests/dungeons that are only unlocked in that mode of play. Something other than "Here is the same game, but easier".

Modifié par Plaintiff, 23 juin 2013 - 12:41 .

[Rylor Tormtor]

Plaintiff wrote...



I think if you're going to have a New Game+ feature, you should have extra sidequests/dungeons that are only unlocked in that mode of play. Something other than "Here is the same game, but easier".

I think this is a problem though. This is an artificial way to to increase replayability. Instead of gating content arbitrarily,how about they create a compelling base game with enough options to increase a player's desire to replay with a different character.

[caradoc2000]

If I enjoy a game, I do multiple playthroughs with multiple characters.

Personally, I really don't see the point of starting a new game with a character I've just completed the game with - who is likely max level and armed/armored to the teeth.

[Sandy]

Nrieh wrote...

I wrote about it several times as well. I'd love to see NG+.

I don't really like how ME1 handled it's NG+. Once you reach your cap and get your top gear - you're stuck with 9999999 creds, and max omnigel, you have no interest in loot and equipment at all (but loot still happens) and you have no progression. May be, it's a good idea to keep some items or give some extra levels (like ME2 in case of import from ME1), but there must be some way to "reset" same character without fully recreating it.

I can see why DAO had no NG+ - they wanted you to try out all of origins. But DA2 has no PC variety, it has Hawke. And it's only logical to assume, that there are people, who want to replay "their Hawke" several times.

Bioware want to sell a game that people play and enjoy fully ONCE.

That's far from accurate. They do target at your first spoiler-free and metagaming-free playthrough, but I don't see how it prevents them from allowing player to replay that very PT once again (one player enjoyed, and one player wishes to replay).

Actually I'm pretty sure it IS ACCURATE. I can't provide a link to the exact quote, but I distinctly remember reading one of the devs saying that they make the games with one playthrough in mind. However, like I said in my previous post, Bioware games in and of themselves make for good replayability. I'm just saying that it is not a focal point of the same degree as some other features. I'd rather they stick with the formula of making the game superb for one playthrough and leave it there. I don't buy the argument that NG+ will not affect the first playthrogh experience since the game will have to be balanced to accomodate playing further than the ending.

But I'm not going to argue my point further, the people that like NG+ are about as adamant as the ones that don't like it, so I think we're all gonna have to agree to disagree.

[Plaintiff]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...
I think this is a problem though. This is an artificial way to to increase replayability.

As long as it's fun, why is there a problem?

Instead of gating content arbitrarily,how about they create a compelling base game with enough options to increase a player's desire to replay with a different character.

Well that won't work for me personally, I've played DA:O and DA2 multiple times and the only decisions I ever make differently are a) class and what to do with Hawke's sibling.

I'll replay a good story regardless of branching narrative, or even gated content. I don't need a New Game + to do that, and I don't really see the need for one without some sort of accompanying bonus to "reward" people for completing the game.

New Game + in the Mass Effect series serves a useful purpose. You can retain your Paragon/Intimidate levels and access dialogue content from earlier in the game that was barred to you simply because it wasn't high enough before. Dragon Age, at least so far, doesn't really have anything like that.

[NRieh]

If you need a new game + to increase the replay-ability of your game, then there is something wrong with your game.

There's nothing wrong with the fact that some people do tend to keep only one "canon" character.
And there is nothing wrong with the fact that those people like to replay same character. They are simply not interested in replaying anything else.

I really don't see the point of starting a new game with a character I've just completed the game with - who is likely max level and armed/armored to the teeth.

As I said, some people do like replaying same character. And that's not only about level and gear. For me in Hawke's case (same as my femCousland Warden) - it's mostly about appearance. Editors allow me to replace a headmorph, yes, but I don't see why can't I just point game to the save with a character I wish to reuse. The more advanced CC is - the harder it is to recreate exactly same face, even if no external modding is involved.

[caradoc2000]

Plaintiff wrote...

Well that won't work for me personally, I've played DA:O and DA2 multiple times and the only decisions I ever make differently are a) class and what to do with Hawke's sibling.

So you always side with the same factions in DAO?

[Plaintiff]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well that won't work for me personally, I've played DA:O and DA2 multiple times and the only decisions I ever make differently are a) class and what to do with Hawke's sibling.

So you always side with the same factions in DAO?

Yes, I always make the choices I consider to be the best under the circumstances. I go to the Circle to seek aid for Connor, I save the mages, I make peace between Zathrian and the Lady in order to cure the werewolves, I side with Caridin against Branka, I elect Bhelen as King of Orzammar (because I support his progresive ideals, not because I like him on any personal level), I have Alistair duel Loghain and rule Ferelden alone, and I have him perform the ritual with Morrigan.

Every time.

[Crushor]

Plaintiff wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well that won't work for me personally, I've played DA:O and DA2 multiple times and the only decisions I ever make differently are a) class and what to do with Hawke's sibling.

So you always side with the same factions in DAO?

Yes, I always make the choices I consider to be the best under the circumstances. I go to the Circle to seek aid for Connor, I save the mages, I make peace between Zathrian and the Lady in order to cure the werewolves, I side with Caridin against Branka, I elect Bhelen as King of Orzammar (because I support his progresive ideals, not because I like him on any personal level), I have Alistair duel Loghain and rule Ferelden alone, and I have him perform the ritual with Morrigan.

Every time.

I also make same decisions every time.

I would like new game plus and harder difficulty after first playthrough.

[Jewlie Ghoulie]

I've never done the new game+ with a character. I like to do everything from scratch to torment myself.

[LPPrince]

I've been asking for NG+ in a DA game since pre-DAO.

It sucks that it hasn't had NG+ yet. I LOVE playing the same character over and over.

Is NG+ necessary? Of course not. But its nice to have regardless.

I honestly would've played DAO a hell of a lot more than I did(7-8 times) if I could recreate my original Warden, but I can't.

DA2 I only played like 1.9 times because of its quality, but at least in its CC its quite easy to recreate a character.

ME1? Played 12 times.

ME2? Played 16 times.

ME3? Played maybe 3 times(CC screwed up, made me feel I lost my Shepard, plus that game was...yeaaaah).

So NG+ does have an effect on whether or not I play a game again, but it also has to do with game quality above all.

The least I could ask for is the ability to save a character's appearance for future reuse.

Modifié par LPPrince, 23 juin 2013 - 03:27 .

[NRieh]

I honestly would've played DAO a hell of a lot more than I did(7-8 times) if I could recreate my original Warden, but I can't.

Export headmorph from your old saves via editor, than inject it into brand new PT save with random preset face. It's not that hard as it sounds. The only way to replay both DAO and DA2 for me, unfortunately.

Actually I'm pretty sure it IS ACCURATE. I can't provide a link to the exact quote, but I distinctly remember reading one of the devs saying that they make the games with one playthrough in mind.

I think we're talking about same post. David Gaider (it was him, afair) was talking about "first" PT, not "only one". And the subject of the discussion was "bisexual characters", and how disappoint people. Replayability and metagaming was mentioned because of how changing PC gender may bring surprises, he did not say a single word about replaying game with same character and reliving your own same story. 

Modifié par Nrieh, 23 juin 2013 - 03:59 .

[Teddie Sage]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

If you need a new game + to increase the replay-ability of your game, then there is something wrong with your game.

I strongly disagree. Many players feel like it's important to them to play on higher difficulties and wish to unlock even harder difficulties to give them more replayability with the games they love. This gives the players the choice to replay what they want while keeping the appearances they desire.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

As you can see I have replayed with several different types of Wardens. I tried to make them as unique in appearance as possible and they have made different combinations of choices. It's safe to say I've done 20+ playthroughs, and I mean complete playthroughs to the end (unless there was a crash). With that many games there are some basic repeats, some decisions which I prefer to make in most games, etc.

I am not sure that ng+ is something which can be implemented if the decision isn't made at the very beginning, and while it might work more or less okay with DA2 I don't see how it could be remotely practical for DA:O. Or even DA:I if the choice of backgrounds is as extensive or deep as we are being led to believe. However, while I like to experiment with the looks of my characters there are definitely some which I like more than others and can see a case being made for, at the end of the game, (so you've had a chance to see them in action and in different lights) being asked if you want to save this character's style for future use. Whether this would make a personal addition to your available presets which you can then tweak further or an alternative import, bypassing the looks part of the character creator, idk.

TCBC_Freak talked about equipment drops coming at the end of the game. This I think can be easily addressed. For instance, in DA2 you should have the entire set of Champion armour at the beginning of the third act. You've already earned the title. Maybe they meant that it would be more useful in the expansion which was scrapped. Maybe they could have done a fix which would change the name of the Champion armor pieces you find during the act and given you a different set to use instead. It did always bug me in Awakening that you got more (or were supposed to get more) of the Black Blade set at the end of that expansion.

I don't know if this counts as a kind of ng+, but if you play Leliana's song, Darkspawn Chronicles, Golems of Angarrak and Witch Hunt you do have the opportunity to earn better equipment for the start of another DA:O game. I kind of liked that. The only problem is they made Witch Hunt way too easy. You could practically breeze through that naked with a pair of rusty daggers, lol. The Black Blade armor set you earned in Awakening might have been helpful in GofA.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I'm starting to ramble so will stop talking. Now.