152 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightdragon8]

Smashmouth wrote...

It doesn't seem like a Blue Suns type of thing to let Sidonis walk away free after they torture him though..

why not? it can be considred a smart move as well, I mean after they broke him he is now a good scape goat for them. I mean Garus was so fixated on him that he would have died to Collectors or got someone else killed.

So in reality letting him go was the smarter choice. If they fail to get Garus he will then go after Sidonis. its just an extra target that isn't a merc.

[KiwiQuiche]

KaiserShep wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Why would I spare Sidonis? That's Garrus' issue to deal with not mine and Garrus chose to kill him.

Retarded bit underlined by me.

Would you let a gunman murder a child if you could (safely at no personal risk) prevent it because it is the gunman's choice to do so? Of course not, so why would you be an accessory to murder because it's Garrus choice?

The simple fact is killing Sidonis without due process (ever heard of the right to a trial?) is murder, and whilst Shepard might get away with it by waving his Spectre card it still doesn't make it anything other than murder.
In civilised society we generally frown upon vigilantism (which is what this is) so I find it a bit odd that this decision gets so much support.

Lol when did Sidonis change from traitourous coward who got most of his friends killed to a child?

I think the point he was making was that you can't rightly disconnect yourself from the act just because of the specifics of the target and the fact that you're not the one pulling the trigger. If you think the target is scum, that's fine, but just the same, you are aiding the assassination if you're leading him out so the sniper has a clear shot. It's not that Sidonis is being compared to a child, but rather that you can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because you don't like the target, or think he deserves it. 

So? My Shepard doesn't dodge guilt; she just feels none for letting her Garbear kill Sidonis. She knows she was doing her part in luring him to his death and accepts that. However she feels no guilt for letting that coward die by the hand of the person he betrayed.

[KaiserShep]

That's fine, but the person he was responding to worded it in such a way that seemed to detach Shepard from the act. If you help someone assassinate another person, it's no longer just "his issue". It's not about guilt, but rather responsibility. That's all.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 25 juin 2013 - 01:28 .

[Han Shot First]

I always have Shepard aid Garrus in killing Sidonis. I don't think I've had a single playthrough of ME2 where Sidonis survives.

Sidonis' betrayal ended in the deaths of every one of Garrus' squadmates, and nearly killed Garrus as well. There is nothing to pity. Sidonis deserves to die. Also most peoples' Shepards have killed people for much less, which doesn't give those Shepards much authority to give Garrus a moralizing lecture.

If a traitor was responsible for the deaths of every named crew member and squadmate on either the SR1 or SR2, would your Shepard have spared that traitor? If the answer is 'no, Shepard would have ventiliated the traitor's cranium,' than it is hypocritical to stop Garrus from doing the same.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 25 juin 2013 - 03:20 .

[o Ventus]

"Most Shepards" is a bold statement.

[Mushashi7]

Yes, for Garrus' sake.

[AlexMBrennan]

Sidonis deserves to die.

As determined by whom? Should we replace courts by you decreeing who deserves to live and die?

Also most peoples' Shepards have killed people for much less, which doesn't give those Shepards much authority to give Garrus a moralizing lecture.

Your point being, what, exactly? A lot of people RP Shepards who would get tried for war crimes by any civilised nation, therefore it follows that their actions do not constitute war crimes?

You are free to RP any way you want, but you cannot argue that the actions are justified.

[evilgummybear]

who cares 

Modifié par evilgummybear, 25 juin 2013 - 10:35 .

[Mushashi7]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mushashi7 wrote...

Yes, for Garrus' sake.

What do you mean?

I don't think anyone likes the thought having killed a fellow being, no matter under what circumstances.
You can imprisom a person but you don't kill someone of your own race.

Oh, not entirely accurate: Psychopaths do.

Isac Asimov once said something wise: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

After all we are not just animals. We have a consciousness and the ability to put our selves in other beings place.

Modifié par Mushashi7, 25 juin 2013 - 10:15 .

[Undertone]

Arcian wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Btw, I like Samara. I'm just saying she is a Renegade. That doesn't mean she's evil. At the very least, she's definitely not "goody two shoes Paragon aww I'm so sensitive and wish to coddle everyone". Ahem, sorry. That was a mouthful.

I can't think of a single person, Shepard included, in the entire franchise who fits that description. The fact that Paragons think and act rationally and use diplomacy and tact instead of impulsively shoving their guns into other's peoples faces doesn't mean they want to kiss babies and be friends with all living things.

And really, calling Samara a Renegade because she kills dangerous criminals and is really extreme about upholding law and justice is like calling Judge Dredd an outlaw because he kills dangerous criminals and is really extreme about upholding law and justice.

Oh please get off your high Paragon horse. If anything most of the paragon decisions in ME1 and 2 don't make any frigging sense.

1) Let's waste your entire reinforcements on saving a ship that does not intent to help nor join the fight on board of which are politicans that have been stone-walling you the entire time. And uhm let's forget about how if the battle with Sovereign is lost, life as we know it is lost. Some Paragon logic

2) Let's destroy a station from which we can finally learn something concrete about the Reapers - their plans possibly, their tech, how do they work, how are they build, possible weaknesses in their design etc. etc. Trully a masterpiece of paragon logic. 

3) Let's release a Rachni Queen we know nothing about, have no idea about their species (since humanity was not even around at the time) other then the fact they are hostile and almost eradicated all the other species simply cause they were KOS in the Rachni list. And so on and so on. 

That none of this choices blow up in your face, you should thank Bioware. Renegade is the logical route to go. Paragon is wishful-thinking and utter naiveness that only works in said game due to developers desire that nothing blows you in your face. 

But then again...the endings. Actually nothing matters, so this whole argument is mute. We all get blue, red and green in the end no matter what.

 

[Seboist]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Yes, shooting someone in broad daylight on the citadel is obviously the best solution for everything - what could possible go wrong...

Judging by how Shepard gets away scott free with shooting up a night club and potentially killing it's owner on the Citadel before even becoming a Spectre....

Absolutely nothing would.

Modifié par Seboist, 25 juin 2013 - 10:45 .

[Deathsaurer]

Lol @ all the my was is the best way posts. I enjoy letting him live because he feels guilty. Let him suffer with it and try to make something better of himself. I literally laughed when he tried to turn himself into C-Sec and they were like we really can't do anything about it since it happened on Omega.

[Seboist]

StreetMagic wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Sidonis deserves to die.

As determined by whom? Should we replace courts by you decreeing who deserves to live and die?

That's the kind of power Spectres are endowed with. It's outlandish. Also why no one in law enforcement likes them. It is what is though. I don't even know why you're asking that question.

Indeed, that's what about being a spectre is all about and this exchange from LOTSB perfectly illustrates it,

Paragon Shepard "Spectres don't blow up buildings filled with innocent people!"

Tela Vasir "Sure we do, we get our hands dirty so the council doesn't have to. The councilors might complain about our methods to soothe their consciouses but they never look too closely."

[Mushashi7]

StreetMagic wrote...

I'm waiting for this thread to devolve like that Synthesis one, where we have to start worrying about the feelings of those poor Reapers too.

Exactly, StreetMagic. That is what makes you more than an animal. You might even consider call your self 'human'.
There must be some diffenrence between being human or an animal?

[Nightwriter]

Saying "it's X's issue to deal with" doesn't seem like an attitude the loyalty missions really support. If it were, you'd be able to go, "Sure, Garrus, choose your own team and go after Sidonis. Whatevs. I'ma chill on the Normandy, drink a few beers."

But I guess if you tried to exercise that attitude as much as the game allows, then you'd let Miranda kill Niket, let Jack kill Aresh, let Zaeed sacrifice the workers to kill Vido, and lots of other stuff I usually don't do. I've got no idea at all what you'd do at the Samara/Morinth standoff, though. There's no option to back out of the apartment and go, "Well I'm gonna leave now, you handle this however you want Samara!"

[Teddie Sage]

Yes, because to me the ending choice matters as the rest of the choices made in the game. I don't personally think Red ending cancelled every other choices except killing off synthetics. Personally, as much as I liked EDI and the geth in ME3, I didn't consider them alive. They were all ready to "die" for a good cause and they saved a lot of lives that way. Their sacrifice will never be forgotten.

[Nightwriter]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Sidonis deserves to die.

As determined by whom? Should we replace courts by you decreeing who deserves to live and die?

I don't understand this attitude either. The game calls upon Shepard to make judgments which determine the fates of others constantly. There's no way to back out of all of them by saying it isn't your place to judge.

I usually spare Sidonis, but it seems to me that even by sparing him I'm enforcing my personal judgment.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't know what he was doing before, but he probably already had his second chance.

... is this real life? I'm floored by how ridiculous this statement is.

If Sidonis faced a situation like the one he did on Omega (being taken captive by an enemy group) he would either be (1) dead; (2) hardened to the experience and never would have sold out his team. He's not dead, so we can knock that off. If he'd already experienced being taken captive before and could handle it fine, then he wouldn't have cracked when the mercs on Omega got him.

Sorry, but that post is complete "guilty before proven innocent"-nonsense.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Nightwriter wrote...

Saying "it's X's issue to deal with" doesn't seem like an attitude the loyalty missions really support. If it were, you'd be able to go, "Sure, Garrus, choose your own team and go after Sidonis. Whatevs. I'ma chill on the Normandy, drink a few beers."

But I guess if you tried to exercise that attitude as much as the game allows, then you'd let Miranda kill Niket, let Jack kill Aresh, let Zaeed sacrifice the workers to kill Vido, and lots of other stuff I usually don't do. I've got no idea at all what you'd do at the Samara/Morinth standoff, though. There's no option to back out of the apartment and go, "Well I'm gonna leave now, you handle this however you want Samara!"

That's what makes Refuse such a laughable addition to the narrative.

Choosing non-action with everything on the line is simply unprecented on major WTF-levels.

[KaiserShep]

I guess they really wanted to show off Liara's beacon somehow. Too bad it requires you to fail hard, for sake of principles or whatever.