Shouldn't flamers go THROUGH shields as well as damaging them a little bit?
Hear me out:
Kinetic barriers (commonly known as shields), true to their name, deflect objects with high kinetic energy (fast objects, like bullets) headed toward their users in an effort to protect them. They do NOT block radiation in any way or form.
Flamerthrowers are highly-compressed gases shot out at high velocity and ignited. Its main purpose is to cause damage with the intense heat caused by its use (potentially lighting things on fire, causing more heat and, as a result, damage).
Sure, kinetic barriers can block the stream of gas from directly touching the user, but the laws of convention mean that the heat will still be transferred (as radiation) to the target, damaging them despite the shields.
Flamers and shields- a lore question
Débuté par
Marek Intan
, juin 23 2013 02:37
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#2
Posté 23 juin 2013 - 03:05
Nitrocuban
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Kinetic Barriers stop projectiles by the means of mass effect fields.
Kinetic Barriers do not protect from any form of radiation, i.e. they would stop the flame but not stop the heat.
And afaik there is nothing that protects space ships from interstallar radiation as well.
Kinetic Barriers do not protect from any form of radiation, i.e. they would stop the flame but not stop the heat.
And afaik there is nothing that protects space ships from interstallar radiation as well.
#3
Posté 23 juin 2013 - 03:11
AlexMBrennan
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I'd question whetherSure, kinetic barriers can block the stream of gas
a) flamers use a stream of gas since most military flame-throwers project a stream of ignited flammable liquid
the stream would travel fast enough to trigger the kinetic barriers designed to deflect much faster projectilesSo yes, they should not block flame-throwers but Bioware threw all lore out of the window in ME2.
#4
Posté 23 juin 2013 - 06:40
Fixers0
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Well, Kinetic bariers, according to lore kinetic barriers are pretty much useless against anything but fast moving projectiles.
#5
Posté 24 juin 2013 - 04:35
Nitrocuban
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The "fast moving" part isn't a limitation of the technology, mass effect fields (or simpler: gravity) can effect all objects with mass, independent of speed.
Don't confuse ME's kinetic barriers with Dune's Holtzman Shields ;-)
Don't confuse ME's kinetic barriers with Dune's Holtzman Shields ;-)
#6
Posté 24 juin 2013 - 05:35
Fixers0
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Nitrocuban wrote...
The "fast moving" part isn't a limitation of the technology, mass effect fields (or simpler: gravity) can effect all objects with mass, independent of speed.
Don't confuse ME's kinetic barriers with Dune's Holtzman Shields ;-)
The problem, is that Kinetic barriers simply won't kick in until a specific speed, is reach, also it's important to keep in mind that Kinetic barriers are designed to deflect incoming projecticles no to withstand the impact. hence why Kinetic barriers shouldn't be able to provide any protection against falling.
#7
Posté 24 juin 2013 - 06:27
o Ventus
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If the ME flamethrowers are anything like our modern day flamethrowers, then kinetic barriers wouldn't offer much protection at all.
Kinetic barriers are only designed to withstand impacts from objects moving at high velocity. Even then, they don't protect against extremes of heat, atmosphere, or radiation. Hence the name, "kinetic" barriers.
Kinetic barriers are only designed to withstand impacts from objects moving at high velocity. Even then, they don't protect against extremes of heat, atmosphere, or radiation. Hence the name, "kinetic" barriers.
#8
Posté 25 juin 2013 - 01:47
impingu1984
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Thinking about it depends on what you define the gameplay mechanic of shields as. If the Blue bar is your Shield / Kinetic Barrier or the "Triple Canopy" of protection offered by body armor, Shields Armor and self repair (See codex quote at the bottom).
If the Blue bar is simply your shield then the flame should basically hurt the wearers red bar (Or an armor bar which doesn't exist of course). If the Blue bar is a representation of the this triple canopy then even if the flame has past thought the shield it still has to can past armor and self repair part of it.
Once it has your blue bar has been depleted and your health is being affected (Red bar). Self repair can restore your red and blue bar. If you see what i mean.
That being said either it's not consistantly the same. I.e Why doesn't shepard have a separate armor bar or why when you use the flamethrower in ME2 againest an atlas do you have to deplete the shields bar before depleteing the armor bar etc.
If it was consistant then if blue bar was just your shield then Shepard should have a separate armor bar and flames should bypass shields. This would mean the Blue Bar is your Shield (Shields), a yellow bar would be your armor (armor) and red your health (Repair is the regeneration of these).
OR
Shields are actually this triple layer, then why do others have an armor bar it shouldn't exist as it should all just be lumped into a all for one "Protection Bar"
I think making this consistant could offer a decent gameplay mechanic (Ie give the player charater a seperate health / armor / shield bar the same as everything else in the game). Once your Armor bar is depleted your health is effected (even if your shields are full), cos you are being flamed for example.
From the codex:
"Modern combat hard-suits have a "triple canopy" of protection: shields, armor, and self-repair. The outermost layer is created through kinetic barrier emitters, which detect objects incoming at a high rate of speed and generate deflecting "shields" provided they have enough energy in their power cells.
If a bullet or other incoming object gets past the barrier, it contends with the more traditional body armor. A sealed suit of non-porous ballistic cloth provides kinetic and environmental protection, reinforced by lightweight composite ceramic plates in areas that either don't need to flex or require additional coverage, such as the chest and head. When the armor is hit by directed energy weapons, the plates boil away or ablate rather than burning the wearer.
The last level of protection is provided by the suit's microframe computers, whose input detectors are woven throughout the fabric. These manage the self-healing system, which finds rents in the fabric and, assuming any such tear would wound the flesh underneath, seals the area off with sterile, non-conductive medi-gel. This stanches minor wounds and plugs holes in the suit that could prove fatal in vacuum or toxic environments. Soldiers are not always fond of the "squish skin" that oozes gel on them at a moment's notice, but fatalities have dropped sharply since the system was implemented.
If the Blue bar is simply your shield then the flame should basically hurt the wearers red bar (Or an armor bar which doesn't exist of course). If the Blue bar is a representation of the this triple canopy then even if the flame has past thought the shield it still has to can past armor and self repair part of it.
Once it has your blue bar has been depleted and your health is being affected (Red bar). Self repair can restore your red and blue bar. If you see what i mean.
That being said either it's not consistantly the same. I.e Why doesn't shepard have a separate armor bar or why when you use the flamethrower in ME2 againest an atlas do you have to deplete the shields bar before depleteing the armor bar etc.
If it was consistant then if blue bar was just your shield then Shepard should have a separate armor bar and flames should bypass shields. This would mean the Blue Bar is your Shield (Shields), a yellow bar would be your armor (armor) and red your health (Repair is the regeneration of these).
OR
Shields are actually this triple layer, then why do others have an armor bar it shouldn't exist as it should all just be lumped into a all for one "Protection Bar"
I think making this consistant could offer a decent gameplay mechanic (Ie give the player charater a seperate health / armor / shield bar the same as everything else in the game). Once your Armor bar is depleted your health is effected (even if your shields are full), cos you are being flamed for example.
From the codex:
"Modern combat hard-suits have a "triple canopy" of protection: shields, armor, and self-repair. The outermost layer is created through kinetic barrier emitters, which detect objects incoming at a high rate of speed and generate deflecting "shields" provided they have enough energy in their power cells.
If a bullet or other incoming object gets past the barrier, it contends with the more traditional body armor. A sealed suit of non-porous ballistic cloth provides kinetic and environmental protection, reinforced by lightweight composite ceramic plates in areas that either don't need to flex or require additional coverage, such as the chest and head. When the armor is hit by directed energy weapons, the plates boil away or ablate rather than burning the wearer.
The last level of protection is provided by the suit's microframe computers, whose input detectors are woven throughout the fabric. These manage the self-healing system, which finds rents in the fabric and, assuming any such tear would wound the flesh underneath, seals the area off with sterile, non-conductive medi-gel. This stanches minor wounds and plugs holes in the suit that could prove fatal in vacuum or toxic environments. Soldiers are not always fond of the "squish skin" that oozes gel on them at a moment's notice, but fatalities have dropped sharply since the system was implemented.
Modifié par impingu1984, 25 juin 2013 - 02:22 .
#9
Posté 26 juin 2013 - 11:22
shodiswe
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The heat and energy from a flame thrower isn't just radiation though, it's also conduction and since the barrier would block the fast moving matterstream a large amount of the heat would be blocked. It would be a littlebit like sitting too close to a campfire.
With armor on some of the radiation would be blocked for a while aswell.
Conduction, there is no physical contact.
With armor on some of the radiation would be blocked for a while aswell.
Conduction, there is no physical contact.
#10
Posté 26 juin 2013 - 12:04
gisle
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They deviated from the lore on kinetic barriers since ME2, but the codex entry on them hasn't been updated to explain those changes.
#11
Posté 26 juin 2013 - 01:33
feriwan
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Gisle-Aune wrote...
They deviated from the lore on kinetic barriers since ME2, but the codex entry on them hasn't been updated to explain those changes.
I think it's just for gameplay.
You do see lore about shield and all right in the cutscenes (e.g. fight against shadow broker)
#12
Posté 26 juin 2013 - 04:21
Nitrocuban
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Fixers0 wrote...
Nitrocuban wrote...
The "fast moving" part isn't a limitation of the technology, mass effect fields (or simpler: gravity) can effect all objects with mass, independent of speed.
Don't confuse ME's kinetic barriers with Dune's Holtzman Shields ;-)
The problem, is that Kinetic barriers simply won't kick in until a specific speed, is reach, also it's important to keep in mind that Kinetic barriers are designed to deflect incoming projecticles no to withstand the impact. hence why Kinetic barriers shouldn't be able to provide any protection against falling.
That's more of a software problem, the technologie could do all that.
#13
Posté 28 juin 2013 - 03:28
JMTolan
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Lore, while important to Bioware, is probably not the first thing on Development's mind when they're implementing powers and balancing. I suspect the story team didn't find out until it was too late to change.
I'm sure mass effect field will make it make sense though.
-Tolan
I'm sure mass effect field will make it make sense though.
-Tolan
#14
Posté 28 juin 2013 - 05:16
Sir DeLoria
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The heat would damage the shield as well. During the Haestrom mission, the sun's enormous heat severly cripples shields. The heat of a flamethrower is even more intense, it would neutralize a shield within seconds.
#15
Posté 30 juin 2013 - 05:14
o Ventus
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Necanor wrote...
The heat would damage the shield as well. During the Haestrom mission, the sun's enormous heat severly cripples shields. The heat of a flamethrower is even more intense, it would neutralize a shield within seconds.
The heat itself doesn't affect shields. The sun on Haestrom was shorting out the shield generators in their armor.
